Aaron Pryor's legacy? ------

[NYDominican]

What do you think Aaron Pryor's professional boxing legacy in the welterweight division should be?

Why?


Do you think Aaron ranks among the top in boxings "Pound for Pound" category?


If so, why?

[elmersalsa]

I think he was the best jr welter ever. A top 100 p4p guy in my book. I got him at #1 jr welter and at #99 p4p all time. Sime people in the forum do not have him in the top 100.

[birdman77]

And those are people that were born long after he retired. An all-timer though maybe not better than SweetPea. I dont know the weight diff b/n them. Close right?

[gilgamesh]

He's one of the 1 or 2 best Jr. Welterweights of all time. Probably not Top 100 P4P of all time.

[NYDominican]

elmersalsa, birdman77 and gilgamesh. -------

Regarding Aaron Pryor. His professional boxing record was 39-1. His 2 biggest wins were over Alexis Arguello.

But, do you think that Aarons legacy in boxing is tarnished because of these incidents. ------


1. Aarons cocaine useage.


2. Aarons former trainer, Panama Lewis.

In Aarons first fight against Alexis Arguello. ------ The controversy over the drink which Panama gave to Aaron.


3. Panama Lewis' other fighter, Luis Resto. -----


How Panama modified Luis Restos gloves. In Luis' fight against Billy Collins Jr.. Billys eyes were very badly mauled at the hands of Luis' doctored gloves. Billys pro career ended because of this. Soon after this happened, he would tragically die (RIP) in a car accident.




Do you think that Aaron having Panama as his trainer? Panama Lewis' actions?

That these are factors why many (If not most) boxing fans don't rank Aaron Pryor up there with the very greats?

[Ambling Alp II]

I don't think many people really hold Panama Lewis too much against Pryor.
What probably hurts him the most is that their is a fairly big dropoff after Arguello. He didn't fight anywhere near the best competition that he could have. He could have taken on Mamby, Leroy Haley and Bill Costello.
Watching him on film you can tell he would be difficult for anyone to beat at 140.

[gilgamesh]

I don't hold the Panama Lewis incident against him too much, because I don't think It affected the fight regardless, but it's definitely a shady guy to have been involved with to say the least.

He had a lack of opposition, but Alexis Arguello and Antonio Cervantes are two pretty damn good names to have faced and beaten. The two best on his record. His Cocaine use definitely sped up his decline, but I don't hold it against what he DID accomplish, just like I don't hold it against Whitaker either.

[BoxBuzz]

One of the luckiest and carefully managed ever. Should not enjoy his seemingly stellar reputation.

One of the fastest "prime fades" in history, and happened to have timed Cervantes and Arguello perfectly.
Panama Lewis is just the tip of the iceberg as to why he should be carefully scrutinized for the reality of his career.


This is not to say he was without merit.....he simply should not be given anywhere near the merit he seems to have inherited on assumptions.

[Ambling Alp II]

Arguello still had a lot left when Pryor beat him. It would have taken a great fighter to have beaten Arguello.
Cervantes was farther past his best but still had something left. It would have taken a good fighter to have beaten him; very few would have stopped him in just 4 rounds.

[BoxBuzz]

I'm ok with "he had a prime that rivaled Riddick Bowe's for brevity.

But I don't see him as near the overall talent and potential of Bowe.

What Bowe accomplished he probably got accomplished in spite of his management.


For Pryor it was because of his management.

[BoxBuzz]

Not as much as you'd like me to be. I know you value my wit and wisdom.

Oh.....and I attended many of Aarons fights as he ascended the ranks. He was a bit of Cincinnati Icon

And I lived close enough to the venues he fought in to be in attendance and affected by myopia on this subject.

I know less about Bowe so my objectivity is safe lol.....but do believe at the top of his game he was impressive.

[Ambling Alp II]

Not as much as you'd like me to be. I know you value my wit and wisdom.

Oh.....and I attended many of Aarons fights as he ascended the ranks. He was a bit of Cincinnati Icon

And I lived close enough to the venues he fought in to be in attendance and affected by myopia on this subject.

I know less about Bowe so my objectivity is safe lol.....but do believe at the top of his game he was impressive.

It is interesting that sometimes someone who lives near where an athlete comes from has a strong dislike for that guy. Maybe you get sick on hearing about him from the local media.

As for Pryor, I thought he was an outstanding fighter. He was a hard puncher who threw punches almost nonstop. That alone will make you hard to beat.

I agree to a large extent his management team carefully navigated his career. However, his managment team didn't beat Alexis Argeullo twice.

[BoxBuzz]

He was timed to the minute by his management.....and the Arguello wins were his to brag about......

His management team were genius in control of timing. He was both good...and less than his rep.

And he fizzled like an untied balloon at a very early age.


Bowe is often tha standard used as the poster boy for a fast decline.......Pryor has him beat.

[Ambling Alp II]

He was timed to the minute by his management.....and the Arguello wins were his to brag about......

His management team were genius in control of timing. He was both good...and less than his rep.

And he fizzled like an untied balloon at a very early age.


Bowe is often tha standard used as the poster boy for a fast decline.......Pryor has him beat.

Buzz,
I see what you are saying, but I think you are going a bit too far. He didn't have a real long career, but it wasn't that short.
He had 40 career fights; not a lot, but more than Jeffries, Frazier,and Spinks.
He defended a version of the light welterweight title 5 years after winning a different version of it.
He was a pro for 9 years before he retired the first time.

He should also get a little credit for the title defense against Sang Hyun-Kim; who was a good fighter.

[BoxBuzz]

Mr. Buzz

If you are going to bring up a Fighter's Management Team, you should use names > not a generalized statement.

Buddy LaRosa was Aaron Pryor's > Manager.

And, Don Elbaum was brought in as an 'Advisor'.

Aaron with Buddy LaRosa.

Hey....Larosa's is where I went AFTER the fights. He was good for a slice of the pie. And if you knew more...you'd know he was not a solo act when it came to Pryor. But you don't know more. But you'll tell us anyway.

Good Pizza Pie Man though............and his dad wore the gloves proudly. Now sit down....now that we've all seen your new shirt.

[BRITIANO187]

Point blank period Aaron Pryor is the greatest fighter ever at 140lbs but I would have loved to see Aaron Pryor fight Roberto Duran. That would have been one of the greatest fights ever

[BoxBuzz]

He was timed to the minute by his management.....and the Arguello wins were his to brag about......

His management team were genius in control of timing. He was both good...and less than his rep.

And he fizzled like an untied balloon at a very early age.


Bowe is often tha standard used as the poster boy for a fast decline.......Pryor has him beat.

Buzz,
I see what you are saying, but I think you are going a bit too far. He didn't have a real long career, but it wasn't that short.
He had 40 career fights; not a lot, but more than Jeffries, Frazier,and Spinks.
He defended a version of the light welterweight title 5 years after winning a different version of it.
He was a pro for 9 years before he retired the first time.

He should also get a little credit for the title defense against Sang Hyun-Kim; who was a good fighter.

I'm ok being called out for my aberrant view point on Pryor.....but I do believe what I say is true, even if not quantifiable.

Another thing......people "running" from him on some sort of wholesale level, was all part of the perceptions that I sensed to be contrived. If his team....including the Pizza guy, saw one of the "names" running....they'd pop Aaron in the car and drop him off behind the guy....and start the camera's rollin'. lol. I admit sometimes Aaron and his folks could make it appear that everyone was runnin' from him......but don't believe it for a minute.

[BoxBuzz]

Point blank period Aaron Pryor is the greatest fighter ever at 140lbs but I would have loved to see Aaron Pryor fight Roberto Duran. That would have been one of the greatest fights ever

I'm Box Buzz, your friendly BOTP moderator for over a decade......and I approve this message.




However, I don't accept the content one iota.



Welcome to the forum!


I have been quoted as saying.....

"The best fight you could have ever seen regarding Roberto Duran and Aaron Pryor would be the fight between Aaron, and the 4 or 5 guys it would have taken to muscle Pryor into the ring with Roberto.

That's my story...and I'm stickin' to it.

[elmersalsa]

Point blank period Aaron Pryor is the greatest fighter ever at 140lbs but I would have loved to see Aaron Pryor fight Roberto Duran. That would have been one of the greatest fights ever

I'm Box Buzz, your friendly BOTP moderator for over a decade......and I approve this message.




However, I don't accept the content one iota.



Welcome to the forum!


I have been quoted as saying.....

"The best fight you could have ever seen regarding Roberto Duran and Aaron Pryor would be the fight between Aaron, and the 4 or 5 guys it would have taken to muscle Pryor into the ring with Roberto.

That's my story...and I'm stickin' to it.

[Nile4000]

Buzz Bomb

Aaron Pryor was a success because of his management.............

Talent had nothing to do with it........

I would have to disagree with your analysis, as Aaron Pryor was the best 135 lb. Lightweight in the World
by mid-1979.

Remember, nobody in the Top 10 would fight him.

1979 wins over 'faded' but capable > 'Stormin' Norman Goins, Al Ford and Jose Fernandez were impressive
enough to chase other Top 10 Lightweight Contenders away.

In mid-1979 > a 23 1/2 year-old 'HAWK' at 19-0-0 {17 KO's} was better than WBA Champion - Ernesto Espana
or WBC Champion - Jim Watt.

It was the avoidance of other Lightweights, that forced Aaron to move up to 140 lbs.

They should've matched him up with Watts, he could've won the title, and avenged his loss to Howard Davis Jr.Then move up after beating Hilmer Kenty as the undisputed lightweight champion, and still taken the belt.

[elmersalsa]

Buzz Bomb

Aaron Pryor was a success because of his management.............

Talent had nothing to do with it........

I would have to disagree with your analysis, as Aaron Pryor was the best 135 lb. Lightweight in the World
by mid-1979.

Remember, nobody in the Top 10 would fight him.

1979 wins over 'faded' but capable > 'Stormin' Norman Goins, Al Ford and Jose Fernandez were impressive
enough to chase other Top 10 Lightweight Contenders away.

In mid-1979 > a 23 1/2 year-old 'HAWK' at 19-0-0 {17 KO's} was better than WBA Champion - Ernesto Espana
or WBC Champion - Jim Watt.

It was the avoidance of other Lightweights, that forced Aaron to move up to 140 lbs.

They should've matched him up with Watts, he could've won the title, and avenged his loss to Howard Davis Jr.Then move up after beating Hilmer Kenty as the undisputed lightweight champion, and still taken the belt.

Maybe Jim Watt would have fought the great Aaron Pryor. But Pryor would've got to come to London to fight him. And I don't think that Watt would have travelled to Cincinnati, USA to fight him.

I do not think that Howard Davis wanted any part of Pryor.

[Nile4000]

Buzz Bomb

Aaron Pryor was a success because of his management.............

Talent had nothing to do with it........

I would have to disagree with your analysis, as Aaron Pryor was the best 135 lb. Lightweight in the World
by mid-1979.

Remember, nobody in the Top 10 would fight him.

1979 wins over 'faded' but capable > 'Stormin' Norman Goins, Al Ford and Jose Fernandez were impressive
enough to chase other Top 10 Lightweight Contenders away.

In mid-1979 > a 23 1/2 year-old 'HAWK' at 19-0-0 {17 KO's} was better than WBA Champion - Ernesto Espana
or WBC Champion - Jim Watt.

It was the avoidance of other Lightweights, that forced Aaron to move up to 140 lbs.

They should've matched him up with Watts, he could've won the title, and avenged his loss to Howard Davis Jr.Then move up after beating Hilmer Kenty as the undisputed lightweight champion, and still taken the belt.

Maybe Jim Watt would have fought the great Aaron Pryor. But Pryor would've got to come to London to fight him. And I don't think that Watt would have travelled to Cincinnati, USA to fight him.

I do not think that Howard Davis wanted any part of Pryor.

Kind of got that feeling too.Aaron and Gato Gonzalez would've made a great matchup while it lasted.

[Dart340]

BoxBuzz, I have no problem with your "contrarian" opinion except for the fact that you are going to the other extreme as Il Duce does and instead of giving us threads packed full of opinion and back-up, you are saying almost nothing to flesh out your statement.

I'm intrigued and want more backstory. Pryor looked the part and was sold as though he deserved the part. His early fights didn't appear to be complete set-ups- Norman Goins was still a dangerous guy and Aspirilla seemed to be a very rough draw- and he didn't appear to have a serious flaw to require careful matchmaking. You were there and saw his early fights and development, tell us how and why he benefitted from skillful handling and wasn't all he was cracked up to be. Seriously interested here, as I'm sure others are, in what you saw.

[palooka]

Pryor was a fantastic fighter who burned out while he was at the top of his game; he burnt the candle both ends and Leonard would have beaten him had he stepped up to welter. I'd have thought that Chavez Snr and Pryor would have been a fantastic bout at light welter - over 15 rounds it'd have been a classic. I've read interviews with Aaron and he seems satisfied with things; if he'd have hit the really big time he would have imploded.

[elmersalsa]

The great Aaron Pryor, to me, was a complete fighter. He could box, he could slug it out, he could take a punch, he could knock you out, he could fight well inside and had that great heart and stamina. He used to throw punches from all angles and he was quick too. Good footwork also.