Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

[ThatOne]

"Nothing is so difficult as not deceiving oneself."

Ludwig Wittgenstein

Come on man, face it.

Your guy lost.....

The Big One.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

John Adams

President of the United States and father of another one>>>some Austrian-British navel gazer.

[BoxBuzz]

Overview

The 'GOAT'
* Very talented boxer, but a better showman.
* Quick-fisted, and as equally quick-witted.
* Lightning reflexes {early career}.
* A 'Dance Master' that featured the 'stick-and-move' tactic.
* Tremendous courage in the Ring.
* Ability to adjust to the force opposing him.
* Came along when the 'Boxing Game' needed an injection of juice.
* Boxing's greatest entertainer.
* Opened the doors for 'big fight purses'.
* Brewed tremendous confidence in himself.

And got whipped in the biggest fight of his career.

Yancey.....And for you...the story ends I guess. But for those who survived to live into later years, there were more chapters to the story.

1. He who was whipped, came back to "whip the whipper"
2. After "whipping the whipper" He who was whipped came back again to "whip (by stoppage) the whipper of the whipper"
3. And for good measure...he came back and "stopped the whipper"


Now....had this been Joe's story, instead of Ali's story.....wouldn't Joe be worthy of some post "FOTC" accolades? Or no.....would the story simply end with loss of the FOTC?


MEMO to IL DUCE.

Your assessment is fair. It is clear to me that you have been evolving on this subject. As you would NEVER have began your campaign here with your signature tied to that document.

I suspect it won't be long, before you drop your rancorous ramblings and begin singing more praises of the man that you yourself have described as: (and I quote)

"* Very talented boxer
* Quick-fisted, and as equally quick-witted.
* Lightning reflexes
* A 'Dance Master' that featured the 'stick-and-move' tactic.
* Tremendous courage in the Ring.
* Ability to adjust to the force opposing him.
* Came along when the 'Boxing Game' needed an injection of juice.
* Boxing's greatest
* Opened the doors for 'big fight purses'.
* tremendous confidence"


Your words......and very accurate I must say!
You sir are improving with time.
And much like the Hokey Pokey...,that's what it's all about.

[yancey]

"Nothing is so difficult as not deceiving oneself."

Ludwig Wittgenstein

Come on man, face it.

Your guy lost.....

The Big One.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

John Adams

President of the United States and father of another one>>>some Austrian-British navel gazer.

"Reason does not always appeal to unreasonable men."

John F. Kennedy
President of the United States

or....


"You must have the courage to change."

Albert Gore
Presidential Wannabe


Take your choice of the above. They both apply to your untenable position.

[ThatOne]

"Nothing is so difficult as not deceiving oneself."

Ludwig Wittgenstein

Come on man, face it.

Your guy lost.....

The Big One.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

John Adams

President of the United States and father of another one>>>some Austrian-British navel gazer.

"Reason does not always appeal to unreasonable men."

John F. Kennedy
President of the United States

or....


"You must have the courage to change."

Albert Gore
Presidential Wannabe


Take your choice of the above. They both apply to your untenable position.

"Yancey.....And for you...the story ends I guess. But for those who survived to live into later years, there were more chapters to the story.

1. He who was whipped, came back to "whip the whipper"
2. After "whipping the whipper" He who was whipped came back again to "whip (by stoppage) the whipper of the whipper"
3. And for good measure...he came back and "stopped the whipper"


Now....had this been Joe's story, instead of Ali's story.....wouldn't Joe be worthy of some post "FOTC" accolades? Or no.....would the story simply end with loss of the FOTC? "

-Box Buzz
Revered boxing historian

[SaadOffTheDeck]

No, I'm pretty sure that fight between those two prime undefeated all time greats for the undisputed heavyweight championship of the world was the biggest fight of their careers.
Anyway serf on, maybe bronze age Santa will change history and make Ali the winner of FOTC.

-hhaere

Your logic is flawed. He never becomes champion if he doesn't upset Sonny Liston as a 7-1 underdog. However as a gentleman I will meet you in the middle. It was the biggest fight in Joe Frazier's career.


Ali needs no more gifts from God beyond those he has already bestowed on him. ""There'll never be another like him. He is the Alpha and the Omega."

You are almost as much a troll and zealot as Duce. I think both you guys need to have a break from posting.

Almost? He's already there.

[ThatOne]

I don't know...It seems Il Duce and I are doing a stellar job. This thread has more posts than any thread on the main board that isn't pinned.

[gilgamesh]

I don't know...It seems Il Duce and I are doing a stellar job. This thread has more posts than any thread on the main board that isn't pinned.

Quality beats Quantity

[ThatOne]

Round 2

The 'supposed' Controversy

{2:44} > Muhammad Ali is in his corner, looking exhausted with his arms hanging over the top rope-strands.

{2:44} > Is standing in his corner, waiting.

{2:48} > After '4-Seconds' pass, Referee - Tony Perez realizes his mistake, and calls for both fighters to resume.

{2:49} > Joe Frazier is already making a 'bee-line toward center-ring on spry legs.

{2:49} > Muhammad Ali 'slowly' leaves his corner, and heads towards center-ring.

{2:50} > Both fighters meet at 'center-ring', but Joe Frazer is there first and is still moving forward.

Il Duce, could you please add a touch of levity to your posts? It seems the denizens of this august site are getting a bit angry.

[BoxBuzz]

As long as the "argument" stays civil....it does not have to be decipherable lol.

Anyway.....once upon a time in this very forum....things could have devolved to expletives and hatespeech rather than frustrated disagreement.....and although I continue to see difference of opinion t I don't see full blown insanity.


repetition? yeah......but that's how you sell soap.

[ThatOne]

As long as the "argument" stays civil....it does not have to be decipherable lol.

Anyway.....once upon a time in this very forum....things could have devolved to expletives and hatespeech rather than frustrated disagreement.....and although I continue to see difference of opinion t I don't see full blown insanity.


repetition? yeah......but that's how you sell soap.

For the most part it is civil and most of the epithets are done tongue in cheek...I see a lot of tut tutting...This isn't the Mensa board.

I think we should follow two rules; not bring our battles into other poster's threads and keep the amount of threads on the same topic to an agreeable minimum...

[BoxBuzz]

Il Duce....you say you do not lie....but when you choose to "opine" or "dramatize" you do it in a bit of a weighted manner.

If Joe had just put Ali through the same sort of momentary shakiness....and the ref botched the moment, wouldn't you have been more concerned? Or would you see it precisely the same way? I mean you give credit to Joe for a knockdown in the first fight, when it was perhaps something less than a knockdown.

And I have heard nothing from you about the official knockdown that Wepner imposed on Ali.

I take from that, that you see the Wepner kd as legit, and thankfully ruled correctly.....and the Frazier kd as legit, whether ruled correctly or not.

Are my assumptions correct here?

[BoxBuzz]

A million miles away? That journey is never more than seconds away depending on opportunity.

And I would say a referee calling the round over at such a critical time would just about double that mileage to two million miles I guess.

Still no comment on the official knockdown from Wepner......I guess it was a good clean shot from your vantage point? Or simply so obviously an error that it is not worthy of attention?

[yancey]

What I'm Saying

Is that, though Joe Frazier was 'stung' near the end of Round 2, he was far from being in any
sort of real danger of getting stopped.

And, Muhammad Ali was a 'Million Miles' away from putting Joe Frazier down.

All true and all of which apparently escapes Buzz.

[BoxBuzz]

What I'm Saying

Is that, though Joe Frazier was 'stung' near the end of Round 2, he was far from being in any
sort of real danger of getting stopped.

And, Muhammad Ali was a 'Million Miles' away from putting Joe Frazier down.

All true and all of which apparently escapes Buzz.

C'mon Yance...you know it does not escape me. And you know that follow up is everything when a moment like that arises....it's not about how much trouble he was in at that second...it was about the second that was never to be. Yes imagined.....on both ends.

Like I say....what you call a million miles.....is about follow up after a compromised nanosecond.

I know you get it......and I know why you don't want to "imagine" in that direction.....just as I "imagine" about a "lost opportunity".

But yes.....he was only stung. And no follow up happened. So I don't completely disagree here.


And I know you both know better, about what can NOT be determined.

[hhaehre]

Yancey.....And for you...the story ends I guess. But for those who survived to live into later years, there were more chapters to the story.

1. He who was whipped, came back to "whip the whipper"
2. After "whipping the whipper" He who was whipped came back again to "whip (by stoppage) the whipper of the whipper"
3. And for good measure...he came back and "stopped the whipper"

When picking the biggest fight of anyone's career of course it begins and ends with that fight.
Nobody said Joe had a better career than Ali and we all know Ali won the series as well as knocking out the guy who stopped Frazier in two rounds. If you want to rate Ali's career the story does not end but it does if you want to look at isolated fights and determine which is bigger.

How can anyone rate the Foreman fight ahead of FOTC? So what if Ali was the underdog vs. Foreman, he was the underdog against Holmes too. FOTC was massive, arguably the biggest fight in heavyweight history but the wrong man won.

[yancey]

What I'm Saying

Is that, though Joe Frazier was 'stung' near the end of Round 2, he was far from being in any
sort of real danger of getting stopped.

And, Muhammad Ali was a 'Million Miles' away from putting Joe Frazier down.

All true and all of which apparently escapes Buzz.

C'mon Yance...you know it does not escape me. And you know that follow up is everything when a moment like that arises....it's not about how much trouble he was in at that second...it was about the second that was never to be. Yes imagined.....on both ends.

Like I say....what you call a million miles.....is about follow up after a compromised nanosecond.

I know you get it......and I know why you don't want to "imagine" in that direction.....just as I "imagine" about a "lost opportunity".

But yes.....he was only stung. And no follow up happened. So I don't completely disagree here.


And I know you both know better, about what can NOT be determined.

Okay, fair enough.

[yancey]

Yancey.....And for you...the story ends I guess. But for those who survived to live into later years, there were more chapters to the story.

1. He who was whipped, came back to "whip the whipper"
2. After "whipping the whipper" He who was whipped came back again to "whip (by stoppage) the whipper of the whipper"
3. And for good measure...he came back and "stopped the whipper"

When picking the biggest fight of anyone's career of course it begins and ends with that fight.
Nobody said Joe had a better career than Ali and we all know Ali won the series as well as knocking out the guy who stopped Frazier in two rounds. If you want to rate Ali's career the story does not end but it does if you want to look at isolated fights and determine which is bigger.

How can anyone rate the Foreman fight ahead of FOTC? So what if Ali was the underdog vs. Foreman, he was the underdog against Holmes too. FOTC was massive, arguably the biggest fight in heavyweight history but the wrong man won.

^^^

The last sentence above says it all.

I really don't see how anyone can legitimately say the FOTC was not Ali's biggest fight.

No shame that he lost and he is in my Top Two all-time heavies, but it was his biggest stage.

[Tomasino]

I don't know...It seems Il Duce and I are doing a stellar job. This thread has more posts than any thread on the main board that isn't pinned.

That alpha and omega quote you always use makes you look a right tit. Give up, you are making a complete fanny of yourself.

[Tomasino]

Overview

The 'GOAT'
* Very talented boxer, but a better showman.
* Quick-fisted, and as equally quick-witted.
* Lightning reflexes {early career}.
* A 'Dance Master' that featured the 'stick-and-move' tactic.
* Tremendous courage in the Ring.
* Ability to adjust to the force opposing him.
* Came along when the 'Boxing Game' needed an injection of juice.
* Boxing's greatest entertainer.
* Opened the doors for 'big fight purses'.
* Brewed tremendous confidence in himself.

I wonder if Tomasino will approve of that. He seems to be quite the "stick in the mud".

I'm saying that you and Duce are cut from the same foolish cloth. Nothing more. As much as Duce is obviously deranged, you are just as annoying and deluded. Now fornicate off, this forum used to pretty decent. Nobody wants either of you turds around.

[BoxBuzz]

Yancey.....And for you...the story ends I guess. But for those who survived to live into later years, there were more chapters to the story.

1. He who was whipped, came back to "whip the whipper"
2. After "whipping the whipper" He who was whipped came back again to "whip (by stoppage) the whipper of the whipper"
3. And for good measure...he came back and "stopped the whipper"

When picking the biggest fight of anyone's career of course it begins and ends with that fight.
Nobody said Joe had a better career than Ali and we all know Ali won the series as well as knocking out the guy who stopped Frazier in two rounds. If you want to rate Ali's career the story does not end but it does if you want to look at isolated fights and determine which is bigger.

How can anyone rate the Foreman fight ahead of FOTC? So what if Ali was the underdog vs. Foreman, he was the underdog against Holmes too. FOTC was massive, arguably the biggest fight in heavyweight history but the wrong man won.

^^^

The last sentence above says it all.

I really don't see how anyone can legitimately say the FOTC was not Ali's biggest fight.

No shame that he lost and he is in my Top Two all-time heavies, but it was his biggest stage.

I agree, I do think that the Foreman fight is considered his biggest victory, perhaps because so many people won't give him credit for his Liston victories. But the FOTC was his biggest fight, and it can't be separated from Ali's story. In fact it solidifies it.

[gilgamesh]

I would say the Foreman fight was his biggest victory even though I'd give him full credit for the 1st Liston victory. Not the 2nd though.

The Foreman victory was his biggest, right behind that was the win over Frazier in the Thrilla, and then probably Liston as his 3rd greatest victory.

[gilgamesh]

Muhammad Ali

I cannot respect a man who would not fight Thad Spencer in late-1966 or early-1967.

You wouldn't respect Ali if he donated you a kidney. I don't know if you're actually as bias you come off or if you're just a troll that has about run his course. Since it is clear your mind is completely obsessed with Muhammad Ali and thinking of new ways to run him down is all you seem to live for. I for one have had more than enough Il Duce for a lifetime. I wish everyone else would start feeling the same and give your stupid ass the boot.

[ThatOne]

Overview

The 'GOAT'
* Very talented boxer, but a better showman.
* Quick-fisted, and as equally quick-witted.
* Lightning reflexes {early career}.
* A 'Dance Master' that featured the 'stick-and-move' tactic.
* Tremendous courage in the Ring.
* Ability to adjust to the force opposing him.
* Came along when the 'Boxing Game' needed an injection of juice.
* Boxing's greatest entertainer.
* Opened the doors for 'big fight purses'.
* Brewed tremendous confidence in himself.

I wonder if Tomasino will approve of that. He seems to be quite the "stick in the mud".

I'm saying that you and Duce are cut from the same foolish cloth. Nothing more. As much as Duce is obviously deranged, you are just as annoying and deluded. Now eff off, this forum used to pretty decent. Nobody wants either of you turds around.

lol

That would be an appropriate response...if you were eleven years old...

" It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.”

I eagerly await your patently inane and puerile response. Please don't disappoint me...I know you're special .

Have a nice day, sir.

PEACE
ThatOne

P.S. Tommy, what Duce and I do is fun and tongue in cheek, at least on my part...I try to keep it within the threads he starts...If the levity upsets you maybe you need to step back from your "mum's" computer.

[ThatOne]

I don't know...It seems Il Duce and I are doing a stellar job. This thread has more posts than any thread on the main board that isn't pinned.

That alpha and omega quote you always use makes you look a right tit. Give up, you are making a complete fanny of yourself.

You seem to be obsessed with Duce and me. I won't speak for Duce but when you think, errrr, obsess about me please keep your hands outside your pants and covers.

Thank you in advance.

PEACE
ThatOne

[ThatOne]