Groves is better than Froch. That has now been established

[CheckHook]

If the ref thought George was in a bit of trouble then give him an eight count or let Carl finish him off. Horrendous stoppage too quick. scorecard was embarrassing too. I had George up by about 5 rounds easy. including the knockdown.

Bad stoppage, but you cant give guys 8 counts just because they are in a bit of trouble.... Ref should've just let Froch keep swinging until Groves went down, tied Froch up or he took another couple clean and then there'd be no dispute with a stoppage. Either way, both guys were denied tonight, Groves deserved a bit more time to sort himself out and Froch deserved the opportunity he had created to finish the job without any questions.

[Finn]

If the ref thought George was in a bit of trouble then give him an eight count or let Carl finish him off. Horrendous stoppage too quick. scorecard was embarrassing too. I had George up by about 5 rounds easy. including the knockdown.

there is no 8 count.

[Monte Fisto]

We cant keep assuming Froch would have finished, or that Groves would have won (especially after those cards). But the stoppage was tragic for all..

[gazzman87]

If the ref thought George was in a bit of trouble then give him an eight count or let Carl finish him off. Horrendous stoppage too quick. scorecard was embarrassing too. I had George up by about 5 rounds easy. including the knockdown.

Bad stoppage, but you cant give guys 8 counts just because they are in a bit of trouble.... Ref should've just let Froch keep swinging until Groves went down, tied Froch up or he took another couple clean and then there'd be no dispute with a stoppage. Either way, both guys were denied tonight, Groves deserved a bit more time to sort himself out and Froch deserved the opportunity he had created to finish the job without any questions.

If it looked like he turned his back to Carl and Carl' still hitting & George still defending himself he cant give an 8 count? I'm not too sure myself.

[gazza8]

We cant keep assuming Froch would have finished, or that Groves would have won (especially after those cards). But the stoppage was tragic for all..

I'm still angry and I watched it on SBO

No wonder the crowd were baying for blood, paying all that money to be handed that rubbish.

Only winner is Matchroom as after the dust settles people will be clamouring to see it agiain

[Finn]

If the ref thought George was in a bit of trouble then give him an eight count or let Carl finish him off. Horrendous stoppage too quick. scorecard was embarrassing too. I had George up by about 5 rounds easy. including the knockdown.

Bad stoppage, but you cant give guys 8 counts just because they are in a bit of trouble.... Ref should've just let Froch keep swinging until Groves went down, tied Froch up or he took another couple clean and then there'd be no dispute with a stoppage. Either way, both guys were denied tonight, Groves deserved a bit more time to sort himself out and Froch deserved the opportunity he had created to finish the job without any questions.

If it looked like he turned his back to Carl and Carl' still hitting & George still defending himself he cant give an 8 count? I'm not too sure myself.

nope i asked this after a fight the other night and the answer was a standing count can only be give if the ref deems the ropes are holding a fighter up other wise its let the fight carry on or step in and stop it.

[gazzman87]

Bad stoppage, but you cant give guys 8 counts just because they are in a bit of trouble.... Ref should've just let Froch keep swinging until Groves went down, tied Froch up or he took another couple clean and then there'd be no dispute with a stoppage. Either way, both guys were denied tonight, Groves deserved a bit more time to sort himself out and Froch deserved the opportunity he had created to finish the job without any questions.[/quote]

If it looked like he turned his back to Carl and Carl' still hitting & George still defending himself he cant give an 8 count? I'm not too sure myself.[/quote]

nope i asked this after a fight the other night and the answer was a standing count can only be give if the ref deems the ropes are holding a fighter up other wise its let the fight carry on or step in and stop it.[/quote]

Ah didn't know that. Thx for that.

[smoothmoves]

The biggest loser here is us the fans, we'll never know what would have happened despite what happens if there is a rematch. I feel robbed of a classic and I am a fan of both men (though Ihave gone off of Froch a bit in the last 2 weeks)

I'm just absolutely gutted as a boxing fan that an outcome as shit as this could happen on such a big stage.

[CheckHook]

If the ref thought George was in a bit of trouble then give him an eight count or let Carl finish him off. Horrendous stoppage too quick. scorecard was embarrassing too. I had George up by about 5 rounds easy. including the knockdown.

Bad stoppage, but you cant give guys 8 counts just because they are in a bit of trouble.... Ref should've just let Froch keep swinging until Groves went down, tied Froch up or he took another couple clean and then there'd be no dispute with a stoppage. Either way, both guys were denied tonight, Groves deserved a bit more time to sort himself out and Froch deserved the opportunity he had created to finish the job without any questions.

If it looked like he turned his back to Carl and Carl' still hitting & George still defending himself he cant give an 8 count? I'm not too sure myself.

He basically has a situation where since both guys are active he has to either stop the fight or let the action flow. Groves isn't being held up by the ropes and at the time of the stoppage he is basically parallel to Carl and there is no reason for Carl to stop throwing and no reason to break the action. Even though Groves is trying to move away, Froch is close enough that he can just shadow Groves and keep throwing, Groves has to either throw back, hold or cover up and try and get out of there (which is essentially what he was trying to do when the ref grabs him). You also cant turn your back on your opponent, especially in a situation like that, although I don't think George was turning his back on Froch, more just trying to get out his way.

EDIT: Just explaining why he shouldn't give an 8 count and shouldn't stop the action, unless he is stopping the fight, not justifying the stoppage.... I think the right thing to do in that situation is just to let Froch keep swinging and see what happens.

[smoothmoves]

To be a mandatory challenger for a world title and getting stopped without tasting the canvas has to leave a sour taste in anyones mouth. Imagine how Froch would have felt aggrieved had it been the other way around.

[gazza8]

To be a mandatory challenger for a world title and getting stopped without tasting the canvas has to leave a sour taste in anyones mouth. Imagine how Froch would have felt aggrieved had it been the other way around.

Exactly!

This wasn't for the southern area title (no disrespect). . . . This was a WORLD title fight!!

You wouldn't see anything like that stoppage in a world title fight, in any country in the world, except for the UK.

[Finn]

To be a mandatory challenger for a world title and getting stopped without tasting the canvas has to leave a sour taste in anyones mouth. Imagine how Froch would have felt aggrieved had it been the other way around.

Exactly!

This wasn't for the southern area title (no disrespect). . . . This was a WORLD title fight!!

You wouldn't see anything like that stoppage in a world title fight, in any country in the world, except for the UK.

Yeah but in the US they would have just broke the action up every time groves was winning and deducted groves multiple points for minor infringements instead.

In germany froch would have been ahead by 5 rounds and the KO wouldnt have been counted.

[davie]

to those that say the knock out would have happened anyway.
as ever, no one knows

if the ref had stopped it after froch was put on his arse, the ref could have stopped it and everyone could have said the same

if the ref had stopped it at any point in virtually any round throughout the bout, where froch was being clipped and caught clean, would it be the same case?

of course not...


so whats different?

pre conceived ideas. the preconceptions of the ref and the fans that froch is too tough and groves has a weak jaw?
if thats how we judge fights there os something far wrong

[Monte Fisto]

to those that say the knock out would have happened anyway.
as ever, no one knows

if the ref had stopped it after froch was put on his arse, the ref could have stopped it and everyone could have said the same

if the ref had stopped it at any point in virtually any round throughout the bout, where froch was being clipped and caught clean, would it be the same case?

of course not...


so whats different?

pre conceived ideas. the preconceptions of the ref and the fans that froch is too tough and groves has a weak jaw?
if thats how we judge fights there os something far wrong

Groves hit this nail bang on the head in his post fight

[CheckHook]

to those that say the knock out would have happened anyway.
as ever, no one knows

if the ref had stopped it after froch was put on his arse, the ref could have stopped it and everyone could have said the same

if the ref had stopped it at any point in virtually any round throughout the bout, where froch was being clipped and caught clean, would it be the same case?

of course not...


so whats different?

pre conceived ideas. the preconceptions of the ref and the fans that froch is too tough and groves has a weak jaw?
if thats how we judge fights there os something far wrong

For me, the difference is that Froch was getting hurt by shots but didn't seem to be fatigued, he was just getting consistently buzzed and hurt by a better boxer. Maybe he would've been put to sleep by one of those shots eventually, but I think it would've happened earlier if it was going to happen. Groves however, looked like he was running close to empty and starting to gas. Its not even a chin issue for me, he just looked fatigued. I don't think that fight was going to the cards and it just seems more likely to me Froch was going to stop Groves than vice versa. Obviously its an opinion and we'll never know, but that's how I was reading the fight at the time of the stoppage and for a couple of rounds prior to it too. It wasn't so much about preconceived ideas for me, as Groves had already smashed those, but more about the tone of the 2nd half of the fight.

[Cas]

Groves was defiantly more gassed than being hurt. He could have made it easier sticking to Boxing than Brawling. It zapped his energy when he started to trade with Froch. Froch can do that all night.

[Tykemania]

How did they have it? I thought Froch won only 2 rounds.

78-73, 76-75, 76-75

Once you step away from the one sided Sky commentary, which gave the big up to ever shot Groves threw and ignored the fact that he was being caught with a lot of heavy handed shots in return, the last two look about right give or take.

[crusader]

How did they have it? I thought Froch won only 2 rounds.

78-73, 76-75, 76-75

Once you step away from the one sided Sky commentary, which gave the big up to ever shot Groves threw and ignored the fact that he was being caught with a lot of heavy handed shots in return, the last two look about right give or take.

I meant how did the commentators have it, as I watched the fight without sound. I can also form my own opinion, so maybe I can join your special club of the few who listened to this supposedly biased commentary without being brainwashed into thinking Groves was several points ahead. While we're coming up with factors that influenced how people scored the bout, let me suggest that perhaps the commentary was so biased in your opinion that you tried, whether aware or not, to balance it by viewing the fight from a pro-Froch perspective. I didn't have the sound on, so I'm free of this type of bias stemming from commentary.

I didn't see Froch land many shots until the final rounds, and even when he did through the first 7 Groves was landing more and landing better. Froch looked timid, confused, and lacking in confidence for much of the fight, and he generally missed wildly when he rushed Groves. I cannot see how any fair grounds for giving him half of the rounds. But hey, it all came down to the commentary, didn't it?

[liamlion]

How did they have it? I thought Froch won only 2 rounds.

78-73, 76-75, 76-75

Once you step away from the one sidey commentary, which gave the big up to ever shot Groves threw and ignored the fact that he was being caught with a lot of heavy handed shots in return, the last two look about right give or take.

Never in a million years was Groves really only one round up at point of stoppage.

I watched the fight in a busy pub without any sound on and it was clear Groves dominated the first 6 rounds or at least consistently landed the bigger punches. And lets not forget the first round was a 10-8.

It looked at the point of stoppage that Froch was coming on strong and that Groves was tired and ragged. But it was a world title fight and Groves should never ever have been stopped at that point.

Regardless of the efforts by some, you can't justify that stoppage. Froch was humbled tonight but Groves' performance aand his refusal to initially shake hands at the end was very poor.

[crusader]

But, but......Jim Watt said Groves was doing very well so that must've been the only reason you saw the fight like you did.

[stevieb_8006]

to those that say the knock out would have happened anyway.
as ever, no one knows

if the ref had stopped it after froch was put on his arse, the ref could have stopped it and everyone could have said the same

if the ref had stopped it at any point in virtually any round throughout the bout, where froch was being clipped and caught clean, would it be the same case?

of course not...


so whats different?

pre conceived ideas. the preconceptions of the ref and the fans that froch is too tough and groves has a weak jaw?
if thats how we judge fights there os something far wrong

For me, the difference is that Froch was getting hurt by shots but didn't seem to be fatigued, he was just getting consistently buzzed and hurt by a better boxer. Maybe he would've been put to sleep by one of those shots eventually, but I think it would've happened earlier if it was going to happen. Groves however, looked like he was running close to empty and starting to gas. Its not even a chin issue for me, he just looked fatigued. I don't think that fight was going to the cards and it just seems more likely to me Froch was going to stop Groves than vice versa. Obviously its an opinion and we'll never know, but that's how I was reading the fight at the time of the stoppage and for a couple of rounds prior to it too. It wasn't so much about preconceived ideas for me, as Groves had already smashed those, but more about the tone of the 2nd half of the fight.

brilliantly put. a voice of reason.

[WayoftheCass]

We cant keep assuming Froch would have finished, or that Groves would have won (especially after those cards). But the stoppage was tragic for all..

I'm still angry and I watched it on SBO

No wonder the crowd were baying for blood, paying all that money to be handed that rubbish.

Only winner is Matchroom as after the dust settles people will be clamouring to see it agiain

Can't understand your logic there. It was a great fight. Full of drama and excitement. Twists and turns. Not happy with the ending but don't see how the paying customer was ripped off. I paid the PPV money and was more than satisfied. Thought the undercard was pretty $hit right enough.

[THEBUTCH]

Groves mastered Froch for almost the entire fight. Froch was given an absolute gift by the referee.

Froch conducted himself appallingly IMO throughout, and was rightly booed through his post fight interview.

Groves was ripped off after dominating most of the fight by a referee who shouldn't have been there in the first place.

If we thought Groves was an excellent boxer beforehand, now we know he is right up with the best of them.

I can't help but feel for Groves this morning, he should be waking up a champion.

[WayoftheCass]

to those that say the knock out would have happened anyway.
as ever, no one knows

if the ref had stopped it after froch was put on his arse, the ref could have stopped it and everyone could have said the same

if the ref had stopped it at any point in virtually any round throughout the bout, where froch was being clipped and caught clean, would it be the same case?

of course not...


so whats different?

pre conceived ideas. the preconceptions of the ref and the fans that froch is too tough and groves has a weak jaw?
if thats how we judge fights there os something far wrong

For me, the difference is that Froch was getting hurt by shots but didn't seem to be fatigued, he was just getting consistently buzzed and hurt by a better boxer. Maybe he would've been put to sleep by one of those shots eventually, but I think it would've happened earlier if it was going to happen. Groves however, looked like he was running close to empty and starting to gas. Its not even a chin issue for me, he just looked fatigued. I don't think that fight was going to the cards and it just seems more likely to me Froch was going to stop Groves than vice versa. Obviously its an opinion and we'll never know, but that's how I was reading the fight at the time of the stoppage and for a couple of rounds prior to it too. It wasn't so much about preconceived ideas for me, as Groves had already smashed those, but more about the tone of the 2nd half of the fight.

brilliantly put. a voice of reason.

I agree 100%. Thought Groves was 6-2 rounds up (7 points up with the KD) and yeah poor stoppage though after surviving a shellacking in the 6th you could see Froch starting to close the gap so to speak. Froch knew he was way behind and took a massive risk just swinging with Groves who we know has a dynamite right hand. His chin though is incredible and he badly buzzed Groves with a right in the 9th. Groves was starting to take a tanking and looked ready to go. Thought Groves looked superb though and ultimately and turned in a career best performance. Really surprised though that non one has mentioned that Froch looked poor. His distance and timing looked way off and he clearly had underestimated Groves's power. If they did rematch I would expect Froch to be much sharper and at it. I still might make Groves favourite though.

[WayoftheCass]

Groves mastered Froch for almost the entire fight. Froch was given an absolute gift by the referee.

Froch conducted himself appallingly IMO throughout, and was rightly booed through his post fight interview.

Groves was ripped off after dominating most of the fight by a referee who shouldn't have been there in the first place.

If we thought Groves was an excellent boxer beforehand, now we know he is right up with the best of them.

I can't help but feel for Groves this morning, he should be waking up a champion.

Groves was winning the fight but the tide did look like it was turning. I would have been amazed if Groves had made it through to the end. Bad stoppage yeah but saying if it hadn't been for it then Groves would defo be champion this morning is a bit presumptive to me.