Is boxing overpriced?

[Parson Cross]

You should care. No promotors = no boxing.

[lefty]

You should care. No promotors = no boxing.

Promoters will always be about. Even if they dont make as much as they'd like to! Everyone would rather have a pound than nothing.

[mickey1975]

Sorry I don't get that one. I don't do dinner shows.

Ok. Your "events" where you have boxers speak and you consume a meal in return for monies.

He doesn't do those either!

[lefty]

Sorry I don't get that one. I don't do dinner shows.

Ok. Your "events" where you have boxers speak and you consume a meal in return for monies.

He doesn't do those either!

[Parson Cross]

Oh Columbo please. Tell you what let's meet up at the next show you attend and we can have a chat face to face. Don't mean that in a nasty way I mean it.

[lefty]

Oh Columbo please. Tell you what let's meet up at the next show you attend and we can have a chat face to face. Don't mean that in a nasty way I mean it.

Did you get my PM?

[mickey1975]

Oh dear Earsjohn.
For the avoidance of doubt boxing is a business.
Let's just tell the Promotors that trying to make a profit is out of order and they should bring us the best that money can buy but for twenty quid a ticket.
Better still lets tell the lower end undercard fighters that they should consider it a privilege to be demonstrating their abilities in front of a packed house and do it for nothing.
Give me 40 quid any time to watch nine fights than 40 quid to watch some ponsy footballers writhing in agony for ninety minutes when someone tickles them.
You have the ultimate power - don't go ! Stay in wash your hair or watch Strictly dancing. That's cheap.

Indeed, I and other consumers have the ultimate power and this will surely be demonstrated on Saturday (for example) when the numbers willing to fork out £40 and more to watch what is being offered will struggle to reach 4 figures. (Those poncy footballers will play to an audience 30k who come back every single week).

My question was more around attracting new and partially interested fans rather than the likes of you who are willing to pay a premium for your 'love of the game'.

Apologies for trying to generate a genuine discussion around what I consider should be an important topic.

Fwank is not thick. Why do you think he has signed up genuine London ticket sellers and a London venue? Buglioni and Keane alone will bring in almost 2k punters. Clev takes nothing away from the live audience and Del brings very little. He is just a token main event for tv and to get him another win so eventually they will get their returns with 25% of a big purse.

[jackukmma]

I think it's very fair priced in the main. I have done 6 shows this year and each time feel iv had value for money. If I want to go and watch my local side get beat on a Saturday (Boro) it costs me £29.

My average ticket cost for the boxing has been £60. Ok that's double the price but i could buy a cheaper ticket if I wanted. You tend to get a good 4-5 hours boxing for your money and that's good with me.

[wrimc]

I would say its slightly overpriced at £40 I would think it should bein the £30-£35 range. That said people pay that much to watch their team week in week out in the premier league whereas in boxing depending on your level of support even if you fanatically followed a particular fighter or a couple of fighters you would probably make it to between 5-10 shows per year depending on location.

I think there are a number of factors that are involved that mean the price is deservedly a little higher than some of the other events mentioned. think boxing is a premium event. Two mean fighting in a ring is niche and specialist and as a result probably deserves a higher price point. Secondly it has the added factor of for one night only. You have one chance to see that fight in the flesh. Federer and Nadal have played loads of times. Barca Real play at least twice every year. In boxing you get one chance to see a fight and if you are lucky there may be a rematch.

So overall spend I think on balance it is justified at being slightly higher than most events. That said I think there are things that could be worked on in terms of presentation and spectacle to further justify that price tag. If i pay that money to watch an event I want it to be premium entertainment and production factor as well I dont want to be sitting in a cold hall on a plastic fold out chair waiting for the next fight. With no pomp or atmosphere to keep me interested.

[JimJim2009]

You seem to think that I am a fan of Wazzas and that I'm defending him.
On the basis that I am banned from his shows that should clear that one up.
I don't want to get into any debates about his business practices. I have a view and that is probably the same as 90% of posters.

I don't aim it at him for personal reasons, I do so because time and time again this happens to his shows.

You can't sell a Ford Focus to someone and then give them the keys to an old Ford Fiesta - they made the purchase thinking they were getting a Ford Focus.

Fight fans don't ever think "oh I want a night of championship boxing", they are attracted by the names at the top of the card. Invariably this guy's shows go belly up these days and he puts on a reduced and worse show. Ticket prices remain the same and refunds aren't given.

Why are you banned from the shows Parson, that seems daft. We all know it was Terry Marsh.

[pyenest77]

I fancied the Stuey Hall fight at Leeds Arena just before Christmas but looking at the prices my eyes are watering!
In fairness the different prices between shows can be just as confusing. Not sure on the prices for Hearns show on the 14th, but that is a stacked card where as some not so stacked will be the same price.

[TJ77]

I do not think it is overpriced no.
Do I think you always get value for money no.
That said you can go or choose not too.
Fighters I follow when against weaker opponents I have opted to watch on tv.
I like atmosphere and exercise my choice you can get short changed at any event with a poor display.
But you can also be pleasantly surprised if a mediocre fight turns barnstormer.
£40 is not a fortune to pay when you consider the smaller venues limited seating and overhead costs IMO.
I am a normal working man and its not like football where you go week in week out.
With beers and hotels its never the cheapest hobby but the ticket doesn't do the damage to my wallet.

[mfc_se15]

I don't think its possible to give a definitive answer of yes its overpriced or no it isn't!

One thing I would say is I don't understand why it almost seems to be a given its £40. Surely the price could change a bit depending on whose on the card. So for example Saturdays card (even before Clev pull out etc) wasn't the strongest so perhaps should have started at £30/£35. But when its a really good undercard or major main event the cheapest starts at £40-45 etc. As football has already been mentioned most clubs now categorise their games so the games against the supposed "big" teams or local rivals etc are in the top category the small team on a Tuesday night becomes the lowest and thus cheapest category. Boxing could surely work along similar lines? World Title fight plus 3 competitive national or area title fights etc = top category tickets start from. British title fight and the rest of the stable in tbc contests = £30 starting price.

I know to a slight extent the above does happen but not as often as I think it warrants.

On the whole though I think it's what you take out of the experience, if your into your boxing and want to see the novices develop etc paying £40 for boxing from 6 all the way through to 11 is good value for money really. But if you just turn up for the main event then 40 is steep - but really that comes down to the customers choosing to do that so not an indication of poor value for money

[black panther]

For me it's not overpriced. But that's coming from a boxing maniac; I just don't get that "buzz" from watching any other sport live.

Funny thing is I've taken a couple of "newbies" to live boxing and they enjoyed it immensely and admitted they'd never experienced anything like it, even if they weren't particularly keen boxing fans.

But I do agree larger Stadium fights are overpriced. I was in the cheap(ish) seats to Haye Chisora and the big men looked like little dots to me. I think my tickets were about £70; definitely not "cheap" compared to other events.

But for shows at smaller venues and sports halls for me £40 is great value. Every seat in the house is a good seat. Also years back at a show in Preston Guild Hall (feat. Farnell, Vanzie, David Barnes and Wayne Alexander) I was in the cheapest seats and had a brilliant view and awesome time. I even snuck into spare seats at Ringside for a bit and shook hands with Spencer Oliver and Glenn McCrory. Surreal and fantastic experience.

[Wake up call]

Here's a little game for you all.

Design your own card with realistic headline fight and decent undercard (nothing stupid).

Work out how much each boxer should be paid and bare in mind that away fighters don't tend to bring any revenue into the show.

Have a guess at how many tickets would be sold for said show and add up total.

Then remove the purses you'd already worked out, cost of venue hire, promotional materials, board tax, doctors and paramedics etc.

What have you left?

If you can do this and make it profitable without TV money and sponsorship then you're either a genius and found your true calling or, more realistically, you don't understand the economics of boxing and your calculations are flawed.

If you imaginary show comes in at a loss, then you've got a better understanding of the reality of what promoters face.

[spudder56]

Here's a little game for you all.

Design your own card with realistic headline fight and decent undercard (nothing stupid).

Work out how much each boxer should be paid and bare in mind that away fighters don't tend to bring any revenue into the show.

Have a guess at how many tickets would be sold for said show and add up total.

Then remove the purses you'd already worked out, cost of venue hire, promotional materials, board tax, doctors and paramedics etc.

What have you left?

If you can do this and make it profitable without TV money and sponsorship then you're either a genius and found your true calling or, more realistically, you don't understand the economics of boxing and your calculations are flawed.

If you imaginary show comes in at a loss, then you've got a better understanding of the reality of what promoters face.

spot on mate

[earsjohn]

Here's a little game for you all.

Design your own card with realistic headline fight and decent undercard (nothing stupid).

Work out how much each boxer should be paid and bare in mind that away fighters don't tend to bring any revenue into the show.

Have a guess at how many tickets would be sold for said show and add up total.

Then remove the purses you'd already worked out, cost of venue hire, promotional materials, board tax, doctors and paramedics etc.

What have you left?

If you can do this and make it profitable without TV money and sponsorship then you're either a genius and found your true calling or, more realistically, you don't understand the economics of boxing and your calculations are flawed.

If you imaginary show comes in at a loss, then you've got a better understanding of the reality of what promoters face.

So paying over the odds, by comparison with other available entertainment options, should be accepted "because it's boxing"?

[Parson Cross]

Andy,
This is it pal.
It's the point I was trying to make in my first post on this thread.
OK we have both been closer to the fire so to speak in terms of what goes on behind the scenes but this built in assumption that people are gong to work for nothing for the "love of the sport" is plainly ridiculous.
I grant you there are some Promotors whose profit margins I do not agree with but ultimately the fans have the final say.
Don't like the price - don't go.

[Parson Cross]

It isn't over the top Earsjohn that's the point !
The market dictates the rate.
For every price you've quoted I'll give you loads of examples of over the top pricing at pop concerts.
As for comedians ....
I have just paid sixty quid for my ringside seat for Dave Coldwells show on 13 December. I'll be entertained from 6.30pm to 11pm.
I could always go and see Miranda Hart for 45 minutes at the arena for ninety quid !!!!!
We're never going to agree mate and no one's right no one's wrong.

[earsjohn]

It isn't over the top Earsjohn that's the point !
The market dictates the rate.
For every price you've quoted I'll give you loads of examples of over the top pricing at pop concerts.
As for comedians ....
I have just paid sixty quid for my ringside seat for Dave Coldwells show on 13 December. I'll be entertained from 6.30pm to 11pm.
I could always go and see Miranda Hart for 45 minutes at the arena for ninety quid !!!!!
We're never going to agree mate and no one's right no one's wrong.

But the market doesn't dictate the rate for Boxing. As you and a fair few others have pointed out, Boxing pricing is linked to the excessive costs to put on each event.

Also my original point (which I'll accept isnt as clear as I would have liked) was not about the likes of you and other "hardcore" fans who are willing to pay a higher price for something that is, effectively, a hobby. I was more asking on behalf of the group of blokes sat in a pub on saturday lunchtime mulling over potential options for their saturday night. One of these options could be a show like the Copperbox. Granted if it were you and three other Boxrec forum contributors, it would potentially be a no-brainer, but, as attendances and viewing figures show, not everyone is a boxing nut.

The Miranda Hart comparison is not accurate - Like it or not, she is one of the UK's biggest stars of comedy - the equivalent of Carl Froch, if you will. There will be people happy to pay 3 figures to attend her show in the same way that there are people happy to pay £150 to sit Ringside for Chisora v Pala - these people will always exist and will always pay the prices required.

As you say, there is no right answer, but I still think it's worth the discussion (as a number of points people have made seems to indicate)

[Parson Cross]

Well maybe you can explain why 9000 bar dwellers paid to watch Kell's last fight the other 1,000 being his hard core fans.
Average ticket price 50.00.

[lefty]

It isn't over the top Earsjohn that's the point !
The market dictates the rate.
For every price you've quoted I'll give you loads of examples of over the top pricing at pop concerts.
As for comedians ....
I have just paid sixty quid for my ringside seat for Dave Coldwells show on 13 December. I'll be entertained from 6.30pm to 11pm.
I could always go and see Miranda Hart for 45 minutes at the arena for ninety quid !!!!!
We're never going to agree mate and no one's right no one's wrong.

[The_Don1]

I fancied the Stuey Hall fight at Leeds Arena just before Christmas but looking at the prices my eyes are watering!
In fairness the different prices between shows can be just as confusing. Not sure on the prices for Hearns show on the 14th, but that is a stacked card where as some not so stacked will be the same price.

this card will make a loss either way, they should be selling tickets dirt cheap to pack out the venue. What's better, making a loss in front of a half empty arena, or making a loss in with a full capacity crowd who may be tempted to come back again?

[mickey1975]

I fancied the Stuey Hall fight at Leeds Arena just before Christmas but looking at the prices my eyes are watering!
In fairness the different prices between shows can be just as confusing. Not sure on the prices for Hearns show on the 14th, but that is a stacked card where as some not so stacked will be the same price.

this card will make a loss either way, they should be selling tickets dirt cheap to pack out the venue. What's better, making a loss in front of a half empty arena, or making a loss in with a full capacity crowd who may be tempted to come back again?

I really don't get why its been staged there or on that date.

[Parson Cross]

Maybe Copperbox have given Wazza the lot for nothing to get some publicity going ?