Rocky Marciano couldn't carry my jockstrap.........

[witherspoon]

........(if you really want to get technical about things).

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=yout ... 6t%3D2m31s

This came up in CS, and I don't want to disrupt a thread that has moved on from this so I want to bring it up here.
It's been a while since I watched this (couple of years ago I watched it for the first time). Now that the shock value has worn off, and also now that I'm less prone to pre-judgement, my reaction to this is very different.
I won't say that it's a reasonable performance, but Larry does start off by saying that the Marciano family have said things that upset him. Nothing he said was totally ridiculous and the comments directed at Peter Marciano were fair.
I just wonder what the family (I assume that means Peter) said before the fight to provoke Larry.
He's not the most popular person, but I like Larry Holmes because he's a straight talker, and I don't think this was purely sour grapes, as it is always described.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He's right, he would have lit Marciano up.

[witherspoon]

The only apology Larry needed to make was for how he worded his statement.
He declared his superiority over Marciano in a way which diminished Marciano's masculinity.
Had he said simply that he was a better fighter there would be no issue.
As for Larry saying that he should have been praising the Rock, that's just standard humble-pie bullshit that is part of a public apology when you fuckk up like that.

[drunkenpiper36]

It was unwise to make the jockstrap comment. But what most have forgotten ( or never knew ) is that Marciano's family was taunting Holmes leading up to the first Spinks fight. In fact, I believe that Marciano's brother walked strait up to Holmes and said " I hope you lose." While this does not excuse him from making his ill tempered statement, some consideration should be made, given that its human nature to retaliate to antagonism. What also seems to have been brushed under the carpet, is the fact that Holmes apologized almost immediately following the debacle. Yet for probably 20 years after the fact, he still got sh-t from his critics over it. Let's face it.... Fighters talk trash.. And while its not wise nor even favorable, what Holmes said is hardly as bad as Muhammad Ali taking a plastic gorilla and hammering it in front of the press, saying that it was Joe Frazier, or Mike Tyson declaring that he was going to eat Lennox Lewis's baby, or whatever he said... If Marciano's family can't take a retaliatory comment, then maybe they shouldn't have opened their mouths in the first place.....

[witherspoon]

It was unwise to make the jockstrap comment. But what most have forgotten ( or never knew ) is that Marciano's family was taunting Holmes leading up to the first Spinks fight. In fact, I believe that Marciano's brother walked strait up to Holmes and said " I hope you lose." While this does not excuse him from making his ill tempered statement, some consideration should be made, given that its human nature to retaliate to antagonism. What also seems to have been brushed under the carpet, is the fact that Holmes apologized almost immediately following the debacle. Yet for probably 20 years after the fact, he still got sh-t from his critics over it. Let's face it.... Fighters talk trash.. And while its not wise nor even favorable, what Holmes said is hardly as bad as Muhammad Ali taking a plastic gorilla and hammering it in front of the press, saying that it was Joe Frazier, or Mike Tyson declaring that he was going to eat Lennox Lewis's baby, or whatever he said... If Marciano's family can't take a retaliatory comment, then maybe they shouldn't have opened their mouths in the first place.....

I did not know about the extent of the taunting by the Marciano's.
That just reinforces my view. Larry did not seem so angry to me, just saying what needed to be said. No way he was going to let Peter Marciano wallow in joy at his failure to beat big brothers record.
And if that's how it was, maybe the jockstrap comment was calculated to injure Peter and Rocks legacy and ruin their celebrations.
Either way, don't fuckk with Larry, if he doesn't bounce off a car and land on top of you to kick your ass he will verbally shred you.

[drunkenpiper36]

It was unwise to make the jockstrap comment. But what most have forgotten ( or never knew ) is that Marciano's family was taunting Holmes leading up to the first Spinks fight. In fact, I believe that Marciano's brother walked strait up to Holmes and said " I hope you lose." While this does not excuse him from making his ill tempered statement, some consideration should be made, given that its human nature to retaliate to antagonism. What also seems to have been brushed under the carpet, is the fact that Holmes apologized almost immediately following the debacle. Yet for probably 20 years after the fact, he still got sh-t from his critics over it. Let's face it.... Fighters talk trash.. And while its not wise nor even favorable, what Holmes said is hardly as bad as Muhammad Ali taking a plastic gorilla and hammering it in front of the press, saying that it was Joe Frazier, or Mike Tyson declaring that he was going to eat Lennox Lewis's baby, or whatever he said... If Marciano's family can't take a retaliatory comment, then maybe they shouldn't have opened their mouths in the first place.....

I did not know about the extent of the taunting by the Marciano's.
That just reinforces my view. Larry did not seem so angry to me, just saying what needed to be said. No way he was going to let Peter Marciano wallow in joy at his failure to beat big brothers record.
And if that's how it was, maybe the jockstrap comment was calculated to injure Peter and Rocks legacy and ruin their celebrations.
Either way, don't fuckk with Larry, if he doesn't bounce off a car and land on top of you to kick your ass he will verbally shred you.

Let me clarify that I don't condone what Holmes said. It was wrong and he was rightfully held accountable. But my point is that people have the tendency to focus only on one HALF of the equation when controversial things like this happen. Let's say that If Rocky Marciano had been gearing up to break Joe Louis's title defense streak and Louis's kid walked up to him and said " I hope you get KTFO." Could we really blame him for an inflammatory response? Holmes has made amends for his being out of line, and that's really all that needs to be focused on anymore.

[witherspoon]

Well I respectfully disagree, I judge Holmes' response to be justified. (Maybe to make up for, as you said, not looking past 50% of the story for so long)

[drunkenpiper36]

Right.

[knurak]

Holmes was rough in his wording, but correct about his point. Rocky would've been outclassed by a prime Larry Holmes.

[gilgamesh]

Holmes was rough in his wording, but correct about his point. Rocky would've been outclassed by a prime Larry Holmes.

Agreed

[Bobbyptsd]

I agree with the idea that Holmes would have outclassed Marciano.

Whether it was an undiplomatic statement to make, is another issue, but it has little to do with their respective abilities as fighters.

[DaveyMac]

Meh, he's a fighter, not some horse***** politician. Who says we have to be nice all the time? He was clearly fed up with being nice to Peter M and getting crap for it and so he had his say. God Bless America.

[ben geoghegan]

Holmes lacked color/charisma. So he couldn't roll with comments like Ali. He expressed himself with the tools he had in the moment and agitated a lot of people against him. On top of that, he was being judged and criticized and didn't know how to handle it gracefully.

[Counter-puncher]

It was unwise to make the jockstrap comment. But what most have forgotten ( or never knew ) is that Marciano's family was taunting Holmes leading up to the first Spinks fight. In fact, I believe that Marciano's brother walked strait up to Holmes and said " I hope you lose." While this does not excuse him from making his ill tempered statement, some consideration should be made, given that its human nature to retaliate to antagonism. What also seems to have been brushed under the carpet, is the fact that Holmes apologized almost immediately following the debacle. Yet for probably 20 years after the fact, he still got sh-t from his critics over it. Let's face it.... Fighters talk trash.. And while its not wise nor even favorable, what Holmes said is hardly as bad as Muhammad Ali taking a plastic gorilla and hammering it in front of the press, saying that it was Joe Frazier, or Mike Tyson declaring that he was going to eat Lennox Lewis's baby, or whatever he said... If Marciano's family can't take a retaliatory comment, then maybe they shouldn't have opened their mouths in the first place.....

I did not know about the extent of the taunting by the Marciano's.
That just reinforces my view. Larry did not seem so angry to me, just saying what needed to be said. No way he was going to let Peter Marciano wallow in joy at his failure to beat big brothers record.
And if that's how it was, maybe the jockstrap comment was calculated to injure Peter and Rocks legacy and ruin their celebrations.
Either way, don't fuckk with Larry, if he doesn't bounce off a car and land on top of you to kick your ass he will verbally shred you.

that's a moment that never gets old for me. brings a grin to my face any time i think about it, thanks.

[dempseyfire]

If you look at the whole conference, Holmes seems to realize he went overboard and signals a more conciliatory tone in the latter half. Larry always carried a chip on his should and was/is a very proud man, but he's always struck me as inherently a class guy. But if he feels disrespected, he can go street very quickly. Berbick (himself kind of crazy) learned that the hard way.

[Seamus]

I thought Holmes came off as an arrogant unlikeable champion, but he has mellowed alot with age.

[BoxBuzz]

Seamus are you kidding, the guys a pretty good example of curmudgeon. That does not make him unlikeable in my book though...hell he's earned it. He makes me laugh with his crankiness.

He's the cranky CEO to George's happy "pitch" man.

[Giancarlo]

Seamus are you kidding, the guys a pretty good example of curmudgeon. That does not make him unlikeable in my book though...hell he's earned it. He makes me laugh with his crankiness.

He's the cranky CEO to George's happy "pitch" man.

Buzzy (CBE), granberry was the epitome of a curmudgeon.

I do miss the old guy.

[RadioElRadar]

Either way, don't fuckk with Larry, if he doesn't bounce off a car and land on top of you to kick your ass he will verbally shred you.

that's a moment that never gets old for me. brings a grin to my face any time i think about it, thanks.

Seeing as it's Xmas...

"He kicked me and punched me, right there in front of everybody! Larry Holmes kicked me and punched me..."

[raylawpc]

The bigger question is: Why did Larry think Marciano would have ever volunteered to carry his jock strap? . . .

[ThatOne]

It was a unwise thing to say regardless of the provocation.

But Marciano's brother openly rooting for Holmes to fail was tactless.

[Matt W]

Seamus are you kidding, the guys a pretty good example of curmudgeon. That does not make him unlikeable in my book though...hell he's earned it. He makes me laugh with his crankiness.

He's the cranky CEO to George's happy "pitch" man.

I used to think this but I went to an event of his recently and he was great, very affable & respectful.

[DaveyMac]

Larry did the TV last night for the Glen Johnson-Bobby Gunn fight. After the fight he took pictures with kids and adults, shook hands, made jokes, hung out with folks, was generally just a great, great guy to be around. People were thrilled to be around him and loved him.

This is the only way I've ever seen him in public and I've met him at 5-6 events over the last 15 years. At least to me he's always been classy and fun. Just a great guy.

[Robinson]

Who cares what he said ?

who cares what any one says ...serious.

If you get offended because some one you do not know
said some thing about some one who you would never
know then perhaps it is you who have the problem.

People have said nastier things about both men, people
who have not even one ounce of experience or credibility
as combat athletes who have opinions far greater than
that...

And on top of that

when you lose a fight you feel like crap, however you lose
and if people are continuously harping at you some times
you say things you regret or mis mean.

hell how many of you have said something nasty to a loved
one while you were hurting or under stress and you regreted
it or did not mean for it to come across as it did.

You think a prize fighter is any different ?

[Ambling Alp II]

To say that in public was tasteless. And it wasn't just the one line; he went on and on.