Tim Witherspoon Versus

[Vladimir5555]

Riddick Bowe
Mike Tyson
Lennox Lewis
Tony Tucker
Ken Norton
Earnie Shavers

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He beats Lewis, Tucker & Shavers. Loses to Bowe & Norton, Tyson is a toss up. Gun to my head I'd take Mike.

[dempseyfire]

At his short-lived peak, beats Lewis, Shavers, and Tucker. Loses to Norton, Bowe and Tyson.

[Ezzard]

I'd pick him over Shavers, Tucker and Bowe. He could beat any of them.

[Nile4000]

Riddick Bowe
Mike Tyson
Lennox Lewis
Tony Tucker
Ken Norton
Earnie Shavers

Let's be real.AT his best, Tim takes Tony, Ken, and Earnie.He could beat Lennox and Mike, but he would have to drag them both in deep water to do it.

[Giancarlo]

The Witherspoon of the Holmes fight would have a good chance against them all.

Problem is, I never saw him anywhere near that good again.

[Ambling Alp II]

Kind of what I was thinking. He struggled or lost to several of the other top fighters of his era. I really would not feel confident in picking him against any of these guys. Certainly would not pick him against Lewis, Bowe or Tyson. He wouldn't beat Norton a majority of the time. I think he would beat Tucker, but Tucker would have a serious chance. Shavers is a wildcard because almost anything could happen in his fights.

[drunkenpiper36]

Tim could have beaten all of those men and at the same time lost to every last single one of them. In all reality, we probably see a mixed bag of results..

If this were Tim at his pinnacle from probably 1983 - 1986 ( and assuming he were actually in ideal form ), he'd beat any version of Tony Tucker and Earnie Shavers. He would also have a chance of beating a pre-Manny Steward version of Lennox, but not the improved rendition. I'd give him a crack at taking Tyson post Douglas fight, but not the dominant reigning version. Ken Norton is a tossup. He had a shaky chin, but as hard as Tim could punch, was not always the best finisher. he had to settle for a lot of decisions, and Norton was a pretty skilled boxer. Be close. I am undecided about Bowe. And as said before, this is only under the assumption that Witherspoon showed up at his best for every one of those fights, which is something that we're not likely to see.

[Ambling Alp II]

I guess the thing that I don't understand is why people seem to think Witherspoon was so much better than the other WBS champs of his era. He didn't dominate at all when he took on these guys.

He had 6 fights in this time period. Only once did he clearly outclass his opponent; he won a lopsided decision over Smith. However, he got stopped in the first round in the rematch.

He won a TKO 11 over Bruno in a tough fight.
He won a competitive majority decision over Page.
He barely won a split decision over Tubbs.
He lost to Pinklon Thomas.

The fight before he lost to Holmes, he barely won a decision over Renaldo Snipes.

Don't see why people are so confident against fighters that were clearly superior such as Tyson, Bowe, Lewis, and Norton.
Don't see why Tucker would not give him a very close fight, and Shavers would certainly have a serious chance.

[witherspoon]

If you don't understand the ole' Spoon magic yet you probably never will!

But seriously, I think Tim made a huge fan base for himself the night he came so close to dethroning Holmes (I was only 5, but my old mans influence made me a fan).
He was usually good to watch and that overhand right was a thing of beauty that made some brutal knockouts.

Factor in the publicised exploitation by King, ensuing legal battle and the fact that he's just a likeable guy, it's easy to see why he is popular.

I can only speak for myself, but for all of his failings, he is hands down my favourite fighter without feeling the need to exaggerate how good and how consistent he was.

[drunkenpiper36]

I guess the thing that I don't understand is why people seem to think Witherspoon was so much better than the other WBS champs of his era. He didn't dominate at all when he took on these guys.

He had 6 fights in this time period. Only once did he clearly outclass his opponent; he won a lopsided decision over Smith. However, he got stopped in the first round in the rematch.

He won a TKO 11 over Bruno in a tough fight.
He won a competitive majority decision over Page.
He barely won a split decision over Tubbs.
He lost to Pinklon Thomas.

The fight before he lost to Holmes, he barely won a decision over Renaldo Snipes.

Don't see why people are so confident against fighters that were clearly superior such as Tyson, Bowe, Lewis, and Norton.
Don't see why Tucker would not give him a very close fight, and Shavers would certainly have a serious chance.

The Smith rematch was bogus. Tim threw that fight. He clearly beat him the first time.
Holmes was a defending world champion and all time great when Spoon faced him with only 15 bouts and nearly drew
Snipes was a contender when spoon had 14 fights yet tim still won.
He beat Page right after Holmes dropped his WBC title instead of facing him
Tubbs was an undefeated title holder and a pretty good boxer.
Bruno was a top contender.
Tillis was a decent fringe type and lost in one round. only other person who beat him that fast was Morrison and that was when he was years past it.
Jose Ribalta was a tough customer and ranked by the alpha organizations when spoon beat him in 90'
Carl Williams was a household contender and beat him several months after Ribalta
Jorge Gonzalez was no slouch and looking rather menacing in the pros when a 38 year old Tim sparked him in as much time as a prime Bowe
At age 40, Tim beat Alfred Cole who was coming off a streak of cruiser title wins.
At the same age, he was also arguably robbed against Ray Mercer..

Witherspoon was a two time fragment champion and held a handful of other minor belts. He was ranked in the Ring ratings for a combined 10 years, and at points was even in their top 3-5. To draw a contrast, Tony Tubbs, Greg Page, and a few of his other peers were only ranked for a fraction of that time. He was very rarely stopped prior to old age with the exception of the Smith fight which he dropped in the tank. He gave Larry Holmes fits.. He was the only fighter in the late 80's/early 90's who Tyson's camp wanted nothing to do with... I agree that he is sometimes overrated on boxing forums in the 2000's, but his style, chin, power and guts make him tough in most head to head match ups.

[witherspoon]

The Smith rematch was bogus. Tim threw that fight. He clearly beat him the first time.
Holmes was a defending world champion and all time great when Spoon faced him with only 15 bouts and nearly drew
Snipes was a contender when spoon had 14 fights yet tim still won.
He beat Page right after Holmes dropped his WBC title instead of facing him
Tubbs was an undefeated title holder and a pretty good boxer.
Bruno was a top contender.
Tillis was a decent fringe type and lost in one round. only other person who beat him that fast was Morrison and that was when he was years past it.
Jose Ribalta was a tough customer and ranked by the alpha organizations when spoon beat him in 90'
Carl Williams was a household contender and beat him several months after Ribalta
Jorge Gonzalez was no slouch and looking rather menacing in the pros when a 38 year old Tim sparked him in as much time as a prime Bowe
At age 40, Tim beat Alfred Cole who was coming off a streak of cruiser title wins.
At the same age, he was also arguably robbed against Ray Mercer..

Witherspoon was a two time fragment champion and held a handful of other minor belts. He was ranked in the Ring ratings for a combined 10 years, and at points was even in their top 3-5. To draw a contrast, Tony Tubbs, Greg Page, and a few of his other peers were only ranked for a fraction of that time. He was very rarely stopped prior to old age with the exception of the Smith fight which he dropped in the tank. He gave Larry Holmes fits.. He was the only fighter in the late 80's/early 90's who Tyson's camp wanted nothing to do with... I agree that he is sometimes overrated on boxing forums in the 2000's, but his style, chin, power and guts make him tough in most head to head match ups.

[/quote]

This post has put me to shame
Still, best post I have ever read on this site!

[Ambling Alp II]

The wins over Cole and Gonzalez (who was a slouch) were nice considering his age. I remember those fights and thinking that Witherspoon looked as good in those fights as he did in his prime. I didn't think the Mercer fight was a bogus decision, but Witherspoon did well considering his age.
I think it's fair enough to rate him ahead of guys Tubbs and Page because he fought at a high level for longer, but he certainly should not be that much higher.

You should not discount the Smith fight because Witherspoon supposedly threw it. If a fighter is going to throw a fight, then it has to count against him.

He had an awful lot of close fights (he usually got the decision) against guys that were far inferior to fighters in this thread (Bowe, Tyson, Lewis, Norton) that people are confident that he would beat. Just don't see it.

Witherspoon barely beat Ribalta (MD)Mike Williams (SD), even Larry Alexander (SD).

He just did not have that many performances that make you think he would have had a good chance vs these. He looked great vs Holmes, the first Smith fight, I guess you can count the Tillis fight since Tillis always lost to the top fighters but was usually somewhat competitive. However, a lot of the WBS champs of the 1980 had 2 or 3 great fights as well.

Spoon had so many close fights, I just don't see why Tucker (who was a decent fighter) would not be competitive with him and maybe beat Witherspoon. Certainly as unpredictable of a fighter as Earnie Shavers would be capable of knocking him out.

On a given night, Witherspoon could pull off an upset vs really elite fighters like Bowe, Lewis, Tyson, and Norton. However, he would lose to them the great majority of the time.

[witherspoon]

Alp you have a point, Tim did not always impress against some of his weaker opponents. I put that down to motivation, although he is constantly derided as one of the fatties, an out of shape Witherspoon could be pretty handy when he wanted to be.
Not that I am making excuses, it's why Witherspoon match-ups are so fun to debate. How do you assess a guy who gets beaten by Bigfoot Martin and then rebounds to beat Williams, Cole, Gonzalez (maybe a slouch, but Witherspoon looked awesome that night ) and narrowly lost to Mercer who had just given Lewis all he could handle?
There's room for debate here.

[keithmoonhangover]

On his very best night he'd beat Shavers, Norton, Bowe and Tucker

On an average night, he loses to all of them.

[drunkenpiper36]

The wins over Cole and Gonzalez (who was a slouch) were nice considering his age. I remember those fights and thinking that Witherspoon looked as good in those fights as he did in his prime. I didn't think the Mercer fight was a bogus decision, but Witherspoon did well considering his age.
I think it's fair enough to rate him ahead of guys Tubbs and Page because he fought at a high level for longer, but he certainly should not be that much higher.

You should not discount the Smith fight because Witherspoon supposedly threw it. If a fighter is going to throw a fight, then it has to count against him.

He had an awful lot of close fights (he usually got the decision) against guys that were far inferior to fighters in this thread (Bowe, Tyson, Lewis, Norton) that people are confident that he would beat. Just don't see it.

Witherspoon barely beat Ribalta (MD)Mike Williams (SD), even Larry Alexander (SD).

He just did not have that many performances that make you think he would have had a good chance vs these. He looked great vs Holmes, the first Smith fight, I guess you can count the Tillis fight since Tillis always lost to the top fighters but was usually somewhat competitive. However, a lot of the WBS champs of the 1980 had 2 or 3 great fights as well.

Spoon had so many close fights, I just don't see why Tucker (who was a decent fighter) would not be competitive with him and maybe beat Witherspoon. Certainly as unpredictable of a fighter as Earnie Shavers would be capable of knocking him out.

On a given night, Witherspoon could pull off an upset vs really elite fighters like Bowe, Lewis, Tyson, and Norton. However, he would lose to them the great majority of the time.

A fair response. And I agree that Tucker would have a chance against him. I don't necessarily favor Tim over ALL those men, but only certain renditions of some of them, ie. the Lewis who lost to McCall before Manny took charge, Tyson post Douglas, Shavers on most evenings with the exception of a few, etc..

[Ambling Alp II]

I think keithmoon, witherspoon, you and me are basically on the same page. Sometimes we just need to keep discussing the subject. The discussion has been good.

[drunkenpiper36]

I think keithmoon, witherspoon, you and me are basically on the same page. Sometimes we just need to keep discussing the subject. The discussion has been good.

For me too :)

[DaveK]

Riddick Bowe
Mike Tyson
Lennox Lewis
Tony Tucker
Ken Norton
Earnie Shavers

He's lucky to win a decision over Shavers. Everyone else handles him.

If Bowe, Norton, or Tucker have an off-night, he has a chance.

He has absolutely zero chance against Tyson or Lewis.


Witherspoon is unbelievably overrated. Literally unbelievable.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He has no shot against Lewis? The guy who was stopped by McCall & Rahman?

[Controversial]

Witherspoon is unbelievably overrated. Literally unbelievable.

I kinda agree, he was a good fighter and could hold his own against the best but he does get slightly overrated these days. Bruno was outpointing him until he ran out of steam, I'm sure if Bruno could outbox him Lennox Lewis wouldn't have much trouble. He was one of the better heavies of the 80s but a prime Tyson would've stopped him.

[Ezzard]

Possibly going the other way now…

Not sure Tim was behind against Frank but that wouldn’t prove too much. Tim was waiting for his moment and took it when it came.

As a huge Tyson fan when he first came on the scene the one fighter I was nervous about him facing was Witherspoon.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Possibly going the other way now…

Not sure Tim was behind against Frank but that wouldn’t prove too much. Tim was waiting for his moment and took it when it came.

As a huge Tyson fan when he first came on the scene the one fighter I was nervous about him facing was Witherspoon.

There is no doubt Lewis was behind and desperate against Bruno.

[Controversial]

Possibly going the other way now…

Not sure Tim was behind against Frank but that wouldn’t prove too much. Tim was waiting for his moment and took it when it came.

As a huge Tyson fan when he first came on the scene the one fighter I was nervous about him facing was Witherspoon.

There is no doubt Lewis was behind and desperate against Bruno.

Yes Lewis was but Bruno was a better fighter when he fought Lewis. Plus the stoppage was quicker and not stamina related as it was against Witherspoon.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Possibly going the other way now…

Not sure Tim was behind against Frank but that wouldn’t prove too much. Tim was waiting for his moment and took it when it came.

As a huge Tyson fan when he first came on the scene the one fighter I was nervous about him facing was Witherspoon.

There is no doubt Lewis was behind and desperate against Bruno.

Yes Lewis was but Bruno was a better fighter when he fought Lewis. Plus the stoppage was quicker and not stamina related as it was against Witherspoon.