Jack Blackburn vs Pernell Whitaker

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 21 Nov 2005, 00:08

two defensive masterminds, ill go with blackburn

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 21 Nov 2005, 00:10

wasnt blackburn louis' trainer??

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 21 Nov 2005, 00:13

yep and a hugely underated fighter because no one knows much about him. i rate blackburn 5th greatest lightweight of all time

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 21 Nov 2005, 00:20

wow i knew the guy fought i never thought he was that highley regarded. i cant really pick a winner here. ill go check some out on blackburn.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 21 Nov 2005, 00:23

Decagon wrote:How much footage have you seen of Blackburn?

i actually own his whole collection

- i have film of some of the great opponents he beat or fought

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 21 Nov 2005, 00:31

Decagon wrote:Um, is there any footage of Blackburn? How can you rank him that high based on heresay?

how high do u rank harry greb??

- i rate greb # 1 middeweight of all time, and though no footage of him(besides sparring) ive seen plenty of tape on some of the HOF great fighters he beat

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 21 Nov 2005, 02:32

well my great grandfather saw greb fight live, hes 97. he tells me about greb all the time, my great grandfather has seen every middleweight from greb-hopkins, i think his opinion counts.

- blackburn fought on even terms with the heavier HOF sam langford in hard fought battles, gave one of the greatest lightweights of all time joe gans competitive fights though gans cleary won.
blackburn often fought and beat much heavier fighters than himself. blackburn was a highly avoided fighter. only lightweight that could beat him was joe gans.

- blackburn even fought on even terms with middleweight harry greb for 6 rounders making greb miss a lot with his incredible defensive moves.

i get my info on blackburn from reading old newspaper articles, getting historians views, looking at his record, etc.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 21 Nov 2005, 02:33

well my great grandfather saw greb fight live, hes 97. he tells me about greb all the time, my great grandfather has seen every middleweight from greb-hopkins, i think his opinion counts.

- blackburn fought on even terms with the heavier HOF sam langford in hard fought battles, gave one of the greatest lightweights of all time joe gans competitive fights though gans cleary won.
blackburn often fought and beat much heavier fighters than himself. blackburn was a highly avoided fighter. only lightweight that could beat him was joe gans.

- blackburn even fought on even terms with middleweight harry greb for 6 rounders making greb miss a lot with his incredible defensive moves.

i get my info on blackburn from reading old newspaper articles, getting historians views, looking at his record, etc.

even in a sparring session, the lightweight blackburn embarrased heavyweight jack johnson bloodying his nose and making johnson miss

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 21 Nov 2005, 03:52

Decagon wrote:Um, most of the above came from the Boxrec page on him. And I would suggest you don't rank fighters based on fights they didn't win.

yes because i dont have the time to go into a deep article on him, maybe some other time i will post and add some in depth historians view and newspaper articles

but to go even with heavier sam langford, harry greb, and give joe gans competitve fights means ur great

blackburn was black and higly avoided

enrique · Post by **enrique** » 21 Nov 2005, 20:27

Blackburn was black and very good. He fought catchweight and some of his opponents outweighed him by a lot.

To say he's one of the top five in the division.... I don't agree.

Was Benny Briscoe one of the top five middleweights of all time? George Benton? Was Frankie Otero one of the greatest lightweights ever? How about Ever Hammer? Was Jose Medel one of the top five bantams of all time?

The answer is no on all counts. They were top guns and in the upper crust of the contenders of their era, but not top five in the overall history of their divisions.

So it is with Blackburn. In the modern alphabet soup world he could easily hold a title but he does not belong in the top five of all time in his weight class.

theone · Post by **theone** » 21 Nov 2005, 22:01

Whitaker very easy decision and Blackburn doesnt belong anywhere near the Lightweight top 5. Come on Brockton, your really reaching with this one.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 22 Nov 2005, 08:30

I think Blackburn should be in the top 5 trainers of all time, for teaching the best puncher of all time their punching technique.

pound per pound · Post by **pound per pound** » 22 Nov 2005, 10:34

Decagon wrote:Um, is there any footage of Blackburn? How can you rank him that high based on heresay?

Correct. We can only judge him on his ring record and what others said about him.

Irish · Post by **Irish** » 23 Nov 2005, 14:49

I think Sweet Pea is just a better fighter, I am taking Whitaker UD.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 23 Nov 2005, 15:12

theone wrote:Whitaker very easy decision and Blackburn doesnt belong anywhere near the Lightweight top 5. Come on Brockton, your really reaching with this one.

do u even know anything about blackburn?? the man was a genius in the ring, explain to me how blackburn doesnt belong near top 5 lightweights?? please explain

blackburn 15 split

barry · Post by **barry** » 23 Nov 2005, 16:30

Considering the fact that Blackburn not only beat some very good lightweights, he also fought and beat everything up thru heavyweights, which is something that I just couldn't even imagine a Joe Gans, Pernell Whitaker, Benny Leonard or Roberto Duran doing. Maybe some bum heavyweight, but Blackburn beat some good heavyweights and some very good light heavyweights, which is very, very impressive! Personally, I think it would be difficult not to have Blackburn in the top five! Gans defeated Blackburn while Blackburn was very young, but he handled himself well against Gans and drew with Sam Langford four times and lost a decision.

Blackburn W UD over Whitaker

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 23 Nov 2005, 16:40

yeah nop way black burn is top 5, i mean fighting 4 competitive draws with a heavier sam langford,still green hes giving joe gans competitive fights, giving middlewieght harry greb a close competitibe fight, and beating light-H and heavyweights despite weighing 135lb isnt a big accomplishment

theone · Post by **theone** » 23 Nov 2005, 17:47

do u even know anything about blackburn?? the man was a genius in the ring, explain to me how blackburn doesnt belong near top 5 lightweights?? please explain

Because Duran, Whitaker,Duran, Leonard, Williams, Canozoneri,Carter, Brown, Ortiz and Jack accomplished more than him. And although their time there was short, Arguello,Chavez and Armstrong accomplished more as well.

joe gans competitive fights, giving middlewieght harry greb a close competitibe fight, and beating light-H and heavyweights despite weighing 135lb isnt a big accomplishment

The win against a not great yet Langford was impressive. Losing and drawing to the veteran Gans is not the same as beating him. The Greb fight was not competitve. It was a 6 round no decision and the young inexperienced Greb was doing all the fighting. All Blackburn did was do his best not to get hit. Beating guys at much higher wieghts was alot easier in those days because alot of the bigger fighters werent that good.
The best lighweights in the world today couldnt compete with a journey man Lightheavy today.

barry · Post by **barry** » 23 Nov 2005, 19:12

>>>Beating guys at much higher wieghts was alot easier in those days because alot of the bigger fighters werent that good.<<<<

Thats just ridiculous and is completely unfounded and simply not true!

theone · Post by **theone** » 23 Nov 2005, 20:11

Barry, you really believe a lightweight of today could compete with a lightheavy or heavy?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 23 Nov 2005, 20:27

theone wrote:Barry, you really believe a lightweight of today could compete with a lightheavy or heavy?

i think floyd mayyweather would beat butterbean

Irish · Post by **Irish** » 23 Nov 2005, 21:17

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
theone wrote:Barry, you really believe a lightweight of today could compete with a lightheavy or heavy?

i think floyd mayyweather would beat butterbean

on a serious note... I do think Mayweather could beat LHW of today.

theone · Post by **theone** » 23 Nov 2005, 22:37

on a serious note... I do think Mayweather could beat LHW of today.

An amatuer, or maybe someone just starting out. A lightheavy contender, no way.

barry · Post by **barry** » 24 Nov 2005, 09:09

>>>Barry, you really believe a lightweight of today could compete with a lightheavy or heavy?<<<

NO! But it was not easier in Blackburn's day as compared to the cream-puffs of today, which is what my response was to!

theone · Post by **theone** » 24 Nov 2005, 09:48

NO! But it was not easier in Blackburn's day as compared to the cream-puffs of today, which is what my response was to!

Of coarse it was, thats why alot of fighters were able to do it. When Duran and whitaker ruled the division, they would bnot have been able to beat a lightheavy contender. Are you saying that they were not as good as lightweights in Blackburns day?