Are UK journeymen too easy?

[frankgreaves]

The single biggest reason that uk journeymen don't try harder is that they rarely get a fair crack at the result when they do!! It stands to reason that if I try hard, win a round or two & STILL get 40-36'd I'm not going to try that hard in the next one!! I'll throw a few, keep you honest & if you take the piss maybe throw a few more, if you FORCE me to fight then YOU are a good fighter, I'll go into survival mode and the 40-36 was probably warranted!!

I'd like to know the percentage of 10-10 rounds that are given by refs in 4-6 round fights that involve Prospect / Journeyman I'd hazard that it's a lot, there by giving the home lad every chance of still getting a positive result, look at Johnny's record for example, plenty of 40-37's & 39-38's!! For me there is no way that the refs are bent / cheats / paid off / homers / fixed but they do lean towards the home corner wherever possible. I don't blame them, 100 plus cheer everything the "prospect" does & no one cheers when the "journeyman" lands (fans of the boxer not the sport, as alluded to earlier in the thread).

Also I'd say that there are more active fighters stateside, giving a bigger pool of opponents to choose from, a lot more former "prospects" that have realised they ain't gonna cut it but already have a few wins, so they go 'on the road' after a few paydays!!

In the UK the British based journeyman plays a vital role & that is giving rounds to the "prospects" that are never ever gonna win fornicate all but are too protected to go and fight other unbeaten lads away from home, they are all on ticket deals with their own "promoters" (haha) & no one can shift tickets after a few low level losses!!!

[Wales]

The single biggest reason that uk journeymen don't try harder is that they rarely get a fair crack at the result when they do!! It stands to reason that if I try hard, win a round or two & STILL get 40-36'd I'm not going to try that hard in the next one!! I'll throw a few, keep you honest & if you take the piss maybe throw a few more, if you FORCE me to fight then YOU are a good fighter, I'll go into survival mode and the 40-36 was probably warranted!!

!

For a judge, in doubt, its easier to give it the home fighter by a point or two and everyone lives to get booked another day. Judge included.

As a side, we have now seen the emergence of the plucky journeymans rise to stardom. Case in point is Terry Carruthers, brought in as an opponent for eubank jnr . A light middle 11-11 journeyman, puts in a non-journeyman performance, and quickly wins bookings as a "test" rather than "knockover". How easy could it be for Terry to become a survive the 4rds opponent, instead he has a brit title eliminator tomorrow even though he's 15-15.

[The Insider]

Youseff Al Hamidi,Lee Connelly,Dan Blackwell,James Ancliffe,Jody Meikle all come to fight

Yeah they are good lads. Dan Carr picked up a win last weekend so did Michael stupart and Kevin McCauley got a draw too (was very unlucky)

[Spud]

You were a credit to the noble art of boxing Johnny I wish you well mate you training any lads yet iv got ya down as going to be a good coach best of luck

Nice post!! & also very true.

[maley1984]

The single biggest reason that uk journeymen don't try harder is that they rarely get a fair crack at the result when they do!! It stands to reason that if I try hard, win a round or two & STILL get 40-36'd I'm not going to try that hard in the next one!! I'll throw a few, keep you honest & if you take the piss maybe throw a few more, if you FORCE me to fight then YOU are a good fighter, I'll go into survival mode and the 40-36 was probably warranted!!

!

For a judge, in doubt, its easier to give it the home fighter by a point or two and everyone lives to get booked another day. Judge included.

As a side, we have now seen the emergence of the plucky journeymans rise to stardom. Case in point is Terry Carruthers, brought in as an opponent for eubank jnr . A light middle 11-11 journeyman, puts in a non-journeyman performance, and quickly wins bookings as a "test" rather than "knockover". How easy could it be for Terry to become a survive the 4rds opponent, instead he has a brit title eliminator tomorrow even though he's 15-15.

Since terry moved to jon peggs stable his turned his career round. B4 then he wud take fights at days notice giving up weight just boxing for money. But since he has been with jon he trains hard and picked up some very good wins over rated fighters and now he is avoided and has pushed himself into a position to fight in a eliminator it isn't just because he eubank a hard night.

[mickey1975]

Youseff Al Hamidi,Lee Connelly,Dan Blackwell,James Ancliffe,Jody Meikle all come to fight

Yeah they are good lads. Dan Carr picked up a win last weekend so did Michael stupart and Kevin McCauley got a draw too (was very unlucky)

Dan Naylor, too. He really tested Joe Murray.

[Datsue]

Has anyone said "I dunno, I've never tried to pull one", yet...?

[danamba7]

Has anyone said "I dunno, I've never tried to pull one", yet...?

Haha! Yeah UK journeymen are regarded as the male sluts of the boxing world!

[bripez]

Journeymen ruin British boxing IMO.

WTF??

I an surprised by this ... please explain?

You don't need an explanation, but here are a few of my thoughts anyway :

Look at each weight division and there are a handful of boxers with massively losing records - basically all novice pro's just box each of then a few times to get a "and - 0" record.

But, who is going to pay to watch that ?

I can understand that boxers need to sell tickets, but even they must struggle to sell tickets at £30 a pop to their mates who have already paid 5 times to watch them box boxers who "do not even try" to win.

So, what happens ..... basically new pros get used by Promoters (often on ticket only or ticket based deals) and have a few fights. A couple of years later when their mates are fed up and they can't shift the tickets, then they are no longer used and another new pro joins the conveyor belt and the process starts again.

This process is much easier and cost effective for the promoter, than actually managing and promoting a boxer.

Have a look at the statistics - the majority of boxers turning pro have less than 10 fights : why is that ?

For people in boxing who perpetuate the above to then turn around and say they have to follow this process as people do not attend shows etc. then no wonder - in any kind of business, if people do not want to buy what you are offering, then you need to offer them what they want to see !

People want to see competitive fights - they do not even have to be the most skilful, just 2 evenly matched boxers both trying to win. This is why the white collar / unlicensed / MMA etc. has proved to be popular.

Anyway, we all know this already and I am just ranting and stating the obvious.

[damianhucker1]

I was speaking to a journeyman i know last weekend.

If i remember rightly hes yet to win from 13 fights, but tells me he hates pro boxing now, said its just a job now as hes always tried 100% in all his fights and although hes probably fairly lost about half of them hes said the other half should have been wins or at very least draws, yet its pretty much always 40-36 as if the ref had scored the bout before it started.

[JimStone]

I was speaking to a journeyman i know last weekend.

If i remember rightly hes yet to win from 13 fights, but tells me he hates pro boxing now, said its just a job now as hes always tried 100% in all his fights and although hes probably fairly lost about half of them hes said the other half should have been wins or at very least draws, yet its pretty much always 40-36 as if the ref had scored the bout before it started.

He might hate it but how many other jobs are there in sport where the overwhelming majority of the losers get paid more than the winners?

[johnswan1]

Some really excellent insight here lads, great stuff. It all makes a lot of sense, particularly hearing the journeyman's point of view about not getting a fair shake when they put the effort in, and also about the conveyor belt of undefeated newcomers who are shifting tickets.

I understand all that side of it, but I do still think that there remains a problem with the guys who are actually good enough to go beyond pleasing their mates, and actually have the talent to at least be a force at domestic level. I think the British and Irish fighters do suffer from not having the right schooling, and a lot of that comes from not getting competitive rounds in.

You often see promoters trying to get their man a durable opponent so that the prospect gets a decent amount of rounds, but if the opponent is nothing more than a durable survivor and not doing much offensively, then the experience is just far too limited.