Duane Bobick ~ "Can Beat Muhammad Ali"

[gilgamesh]

[HomicideHenry]

If memory serves me right, the whole Duane/Ali situation went along these lines...

Ken Norton was chasing Ali for a fourth fight; Ali was hoping to fight Bobick next because the money would have been tremendous (after all Bobick at this time was THE talked about heavyweight); So a contract was written up, Norton-Bobick would square off and the winner face Ali for the title. Unfortunately for Ali, the wrong man won, and Norton was shitting in tall cotton cus he was going to have a fourth fight with Ali and this time knew he wouldn't make any mistakes.

Ali, not wanting to face Norton for a fourth time, instead chose to fight 5-0-1 Leon Spinks. The WBA/WBC of course were furious over this, and when Ali lost to Spinks they demanded he fight Norton in his first defense of the title. Spinks, seeing dollar signs, said no and rematched Ali, and of course the WBC title was stripped of Spinks and given (rightfully so) to Norton. It is ironic that many years later Duane Bobick would make a sarcastic remark about Spinks (along the lines of): "Spinks too scared to fight Norton, rather fight Cassius Clay, bleh!"

Anyways.... I'm guessing Il Duce is wanting a 'reaction' or a debate on whether Duane Bobick would of had a shot of beating Ali in around 1976-1978.... so here is my two cents on the issue:

#1- Having interviewed men from that time on radio (such as Chuck Wepner, who fought Duane), they all told me Duane hit hard, but wasn't the murderous puncher he was hyped to be, he didn't hit as hard as Foreman or Frazier

#2- Duane Bobick was a slow starter, and was slow period; just a big, strong, man with only one gear and that was to stalk and come forward at his opponents--- the sort of guys Ali loved to fight

#3- Duane wasn't the most mentally strong guy in the division; after losing to Norton and became the butt end of jokes on SNL and other syndicate shows--- he began to fall apart emotionally, and physically losing (often in devestating fashion) to guys like John Tate and George Chaplin, etc. I think he could have been--- like so many others before him--- suckered into Ali's psychological tactics

However... we ain't talking about a version of Ali that was particuarly good... sure he survived Shavers, but this is also the same Ali who a few months before got a gift over Jimmy Young and went a full fifteen rounds with Alfredo Evangelista that even Ali bandwagon Howard Cossell said was one of the worst fights of all time... Ali was relying more on more on the 'Rope-A-Dope', was hardly training for fights anymore, and was getting slower and slower at a frightening pace... in truth, I think anyone in the top forty or twenty at that time could have given Ali a good fight... factor in a young, hungry guy with a solid punch and a desire to become something more than just a 'white hope'.... I aint saying Duane could of won, but he would of made it a very interesting fight while it lasted.

[Woller]

I don´t really get it. Duane Bobick was a 10.000 Dollar fighter.
If you had 10.000 Dollars and a "not too good" opponent you just called Bobicks manager and got the fight made.
I cannot se him as a Ali Opponent at any stage.

[HomicideHenry]

Muhammad Ali >
"I'm not going to be some Jack Johnson for Duane Bobick {ie; Jess Willard}."

Source? It does not much good unless you got googlenewspapers or w/e to back the quotes up with.

[gilgamesh]

I don´t really get it. Duane Bobick was a 10.000 Dollar fighter.
If you had 10.000 Dollars and a "not too good" opponent you just called Bobicks manager and got the fight made.
I cannot se him as a Ali Opponent at any stage.

Woller,

Duane Bobick had One Thing that made him 'Special'.................

The fact that he was a guy that Ali didn't fight so you can go back nearly 40 years down the line and pretend like he was somebody to duck?

[HomicideHenry]

Duane Bobick

I just saw Muhammad Ali 'labor' against Jimmy Young. Now, Jimmy is a decent boxer but he can't 'Hit-a-Lick'.
I boxed a few Rounds with Jimmy in Philadelphia, and I drove him all over the Ring.

And Muhammad's effort against Richard Dunn. Wow, his reflexes are gone. He looked so slow in there with
Dunn in Munich. Maybe it was the German climate or something, but Muhammad was 'bad'.

Oh, they want me to fight Chuck Wepner {#9 WBA-ranked} on National Television. I'm supposed to beat him
up and stop him early. So it's supposed to mean that I'm better than Muhammad Ali who took 15-Rounds to stop
Chuck.

I'll you something. Chuck Wepner is no easy guy, he's a rough brawler. All the other guys say he's no good, but
nobody else wants to fight him. What does that tell you. We'll see next month, as I'm expecting a tough fight.

Again, where are the sources so others can actually see the quotes themselves in articles?

Btw, a few points:

#1- Ali, in truth, could have taken Chuck out at any time--- after Tony Perez ruled a knock down, instead of a slip, in the 9th round Ali went gangbusters on Chuck from that moment onward and stopped him in the 15th--- just 1/3 the time it took to get to that point. I reckon had Ali started off that fast paced and throwing everything but the kitchen sink at Chuck, the fight would of been over between 7-8 rounds.

#2- I've interviewed Wepner, and he said Bobick wasn't nowhere near the puncher he's made out to be. He hit hard, yes, but Frazier and Liston and Foreman hit way harder. And--- Chuck was stopped (as always) on cuts by Bobick, not on a KO. Bobick was slow, ponderous and a stalker. In fact, I'd wager to say had Chuck not been so shop worn in the face, it would of went the scheduled distance and been a close fight--- after all, Chuck at his best beat Terry Hinke who was Foreman's top sparring partner and a top ten ranked contender.

#3- Nobody wanted to fight Chuck? Chuck fought almost everybody to name: Bugner, Liston, Mathis, and even fringe contenders like Neumann. After the Ali fight and the success of Rocky, everyone wanted a piece of Chuck, which is why he did wrestling events with Andre The Giant and Antonio Inoki, etc. He had name market value, when before he was considered just a fringe contender who could be outboxed, out fought, and easy to cut. In Bobick's case--- it was a passing of the torch, so to speak, the old guy with some fame giving the new guy some credability.

[HomicideHenry]

H Henry

I meant that after March 1975 - after Chuck Wepner fought for the Heavyweight Championship, Chuck's
popularity was at the 'Pinnacle of his Career'.

Yet, he couldn't get a good Television Bout against a name opponent.

Madison Square Garden didn't want him.........despite Chuck fighting there a few times.

And speaking of Muhammad Ali, he hit Chuck with 'Bombs' well before Round 9, and he couldn't stop Chuck
from coming forward.

That's not how I remember it. What I remember is from Round 1-8 it was essentially Wepner coming on, trying to maul/clinch/smother Ali and Ali doing the 'Rope-A-Dope' and doing light punches--- until Wepner threw series of rabbit punches to the back of the head, and then Ali would throw them back in return and complain to Tony Perez about the fouling. Outside of that, Ali seemed content to just lay on the ropes or bounce around and fire off jabs.

[HomicideHenry]

Buzz Bomb

You must have missed Rounds 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8.

How did Chuck get that early cut..............shaving.

How did Chuck get cut by Joe Bugner (who was probably the biggest powder puff at that time)?

Because Chuck had bad skin.

[polecateddy]

I think if Duane is slow and steady, he probably just loses a lot of rounds similarly to Bugner, who was a better fighter. The one ace card Ali held longer than anything was excellent stamina for 15 round fights. He outlasted a lot of people due to tough training camps, chopping trees and the like.

[HomicideHenry]

I think you're selling Duane Bobick short.

His strength and slow, but steady style would be problems 'galore' for an old Muhammad Ali.

1976 Muhammad isn't stopping Duane that's for sure..........

Granted, I've seen Ali's later fights with opponents like Richard Dunne and he looked like complete dog shit against them--- yet, when the occasion called for it like with Shavers or Norton he could take them into deep waters, steal rounds, and ultimately decisions. Big, strong Bobick (I'm guessing) would have possibly won the first four-five, and then the tide would begin to turn. Once that 7th or 8th round would come about, Bobick would start to tire--- he'd be thinking to himself "I stopped Wepner, I stopped Holmes and Stevenson in the amateurs, and I can't stop this old man." Ali would allow Bobick to punch himself out, and somewhere in the 10th-12th rounds Ali would start to pour it on Bobick. Bobick, game as he would be, would manage to make it into the 15th round--- but behind on all cards. Say by a score of 9-5-2 maybe. Maybe I am wrong in my prediction, for all I know maybe even at that stage Ali could of pulled out a surprise kayo--- but judging by history, Dunne was Ali's last kayo victim and maybe there would be no surprises. But fifteen rounds is a long ways to go with a man with a granite chin, whose also a master of psychology and with plenty of reserves--- even at that stage of the game Ali was hard to hit clean to the face. Could Duane of gone power punch for power punch for fifteen rounds? I dont think so. Same problem that Cooney had--- not enough experience in the deep waters.

[HomicideHenry]

Duane Bobick

His problem was never stamina or endurance. And he would have never went 'all-out' against Muhammad Ali.

Just plodding slow and steady with wide swings.

That's because the majority of the men he faced got blown out quickly, or were tough, slow movers like himself--- Bobick never went twelve-fifteen rounds before. I think before even being considered for Ali in any sense, Bobick only went ten rounds once or twice. I could be wrong on that, but I don't think that's the case--- when you got a target in front of you, like Ali during those rope a dope years, I can see Bobick getting carried away and restless after a while after doing the same mistake everyone else made by pounding on Ali while he's blocking shots with his arms.

[Bobbyptsd]

If there was a game plan to beating Ali, it was "plodding slow and steady with wide swings" as Duce put it.

I mean, don't you guys remember all the fighters who beat Ali that way?

[Bobbyptsd]

Your right, I'm clearly the crazy one here.

[gilgamesh]

Duce, I can only assume you are an intentional troll. Because if not, you are an absolute joke of a human being.

[HomicideHenry]

Duane Bobick

His problem was never stamina or endurance. And he would have never went 'all-out' against Muhammad Ali.

Just plodding slow and steady with wide swings.

That's because the majority of the men he faced got blown out quickly, or were tough, slow movers like himself--- Bobick never went twelve-fifteen rounds before. I think before even being considered for Ali in any sense, Bobick only went ten rounds once or twice. I could be wrong on that, but I don't think that's the case--- when you got a target in front of you, like Ali during those rope a dope years, I can see Bobick getting carried away and restless after a while after doing the same mistake everyone else made by pounding on Ali while he's blocking shots with his arms.

Do you mean like Alfredo Evangelista

Who had never gone more than 8-Rounds ever,,,,,,,,,, before facing the Great Muhammad Ali.

Duane never got carried away, he was always slow.

Watch Duane in this fight, and you'll see,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Here's the thing, though, a few short months later Ali was going the distance with Earnie Shavers and beat him. Also, not long after he had fought Ken Norton (a fight I thought Ali lost btw) and it was very competitive. Both of those guys were several levels higher than Duane Bobick, and Norton proved that. If Shavers couldn't knock Ali out, or win a decision over Ali, and he was slow and had stamina issues and a soft chin (look at his record, Shavers was kayoed by guys like Ron Stander, etc) then there's no way Duane is kayoing Ali or winning a decision over Ali--- do I think it would of made for a good fight? Yes. But Duane isnt winning it.