The Best White Heavyweight of All Time

[AngryGoon38]

A Few not Mentioned:
_____________________
Lamar Clark
Kallie Knoetze
Lou Savarese
Sosnowski
Butterbean

[HomicideHenry]

A Few not Mentioned:
_____________________
Lamar Clark
Kallie Knoetze
Lou Savarese
Sosnowski
Butterbean

Thank you, will add most of these (save for Esch)

[AngryGoon38]

-Brian Neilson
-Kevin McBride
-Tony Galento
-Carmine Vingo
-Crawford Grimsley(Actually Had Quite good credibility prior to the 10 second Ko loss to James Thunder)

[Ambling Alp II]

After lokking at the title of the thread, and one post in particular, I was reluctant to participate. (I'm surprised Jefferson Davis isn't included in the 1962-1972 period, I thought that would be one of homocide henry's favorites.)

However, I love the history of the sport so much that I thought it would be a good opportunity to discuss some of the not-so great fighters from the past who have been largely overlooked. So here are some fighters that should be added:

1880-1900 Frank Slavin and Joe Goddard. Not sure why the years 1901-1904 don't count. I guess Gus Ruhlin and Kid McCoy would go in the 1880-1900 period as well.

1916-1925 Georges Carpentier

Not sure why we are excluding the 1926-1928 years; Tom Heeney, Jim Maloney, and especially Johnny Risko belong; I guess they would need to go in the 1929-1939 period.

1939-1949 Period-Outside of Billy Conn, it didn't specifically say which of Joe Louis' title opponents. Buddy Baer, Abe Simon, Lou Nova, Tommy Farr and I guess Tony Galento were the best. Johnny Paycheck and Jack Roper were horrible. The rest were mediocre.

1951-1961- Mike DeJohn, perhaps Roy Harris.
1962-1972- Bob Cleroux

If you really are going to do a tournament, 32 would be probably be ideal, and 64 the max. without having byes. There are already well over 80 guys listed, some were great, some very good, some good, some mediocre, and some were awful. Cuts will need to be made. Peter McNeeley seems a good place to start.

[HomicideHenry]

After lokking at the title of the thread, and one post in particular, I was reluctant to participate. (I'm surprised Jefferson Davis isn't included in the 1962-1972 period, I thought that would be one of homocide henry's favorites.)

However, I love the history of the sport so much that I thought it would be a good opportunity to discuss some of the not-so great fighters from the past who have been largely overlooked. So here are some fighters that should be added:

1880-1900 Frank Slavin and Joe Goddard. Not sure why the years 1901-1904 don't count. I guess Gus Ruhlin and Kid McCoy would go in the 1880-1900 period as well.

1916-1925 Georges Carpentier

Not sure why we are excluding the 1926-1928 years; Tom Heeney, Jim Maloney, and especially Johnny Risko belong; I guess they would need to go in the 1929-1939 period.

1939-1949 Period-Outside of Billy Conn, it didn't specifically say which of Joe Louis' title opponents. Buddy Baer, Abe Simon, Lou Nova, Tommy Farr and I guess Tony Galento were the best. Johnny Paycheck and Jack Roper were horrible. The rest were mediocre.

1951-1961- Mike DeJohn, perhaps Roy Harris.
1962-1972- Bob Cleroux

If you really are going to do a tournament, 32 would be probably be ideal, and 64 the max. without having byes. There are already well over 80 guys listed, some were great, some very good, some good, some mediocre, and some were awful. Cuts will need to be made. Peter McNeeley seems a good place to start.

Thanks for the great abundance of names Alp they will be certainly listed among the rest. I agree some need to be cut like Peter McNeeley, however, I think we got a pretty accurate list of names all around.

Also, concerning those 'eras' that seem to not count--- i.e. 1926-1928 was the era of Tunney, and 1901-1904 was essentially the era of Jeffries, who didn't retire as champion until 1905 (I think), so just lumped it together. Maybe not the best logic, but all around I think gives creedance to the two men who retired as champions and the years between were all their's.

[Duch]

When do you plan to start the tournament?

And there will be 32 or 64 boxers or do you think about something different?

[man]

in all seriousness. it takes a virtual tournament
of 32 or 64 boxers to determine who the best
white heavy in history was?

wow.

[Ambling Alp II]

Of course not. Just having some fun; it's interesting to discuss some guys that hardly ever get mentioned. (Though we could have done without some of the comments on one long post in particular.)
Only about 4 guys would have had a realistic chance to win the whole thing; however some people like to do these tournaments.

[Duch]

in all seriousness. it takes a virtual tournament
of 32 or 64 boxers to determine who the best
white heavy in history was?

wow.

Is that a sarcasm?

I don't think anybody could take this tournament as a serious competition which can show us who is the best heavyweight white boxer of all time. That's just for fun.

[HomicideHenry]

-Brian Neilson
-Kevin McBride
-Tony Galento
-Carmine Vingo
-Crawford Grimsley(Actually Had Quite good credibility prior to the 10 second Ko loss to James Thunder)

Will add, Vingo, Grimsley and McBride to the list--- Galento already is on it (i.e. Joe Louis's title defense opponents who were white and worth a damn).

[HomicideHenry]

When do you plan to start the tournament?

And there will be 32 or 64 boxers or do you think about something different?

I think we have a sufficient number of names. In all seriousness, the names on this board are about as good as it can get throughout history--- excluding the bare knuckle eras. I'm thinking tomorrow, we can start doing matches at random, with votes--- or a committee of three-five voters, to determine who would win, lose, etc.

Of course not. Just having some fun; it's interesting to discuss some guys that hardly ever get mentioned. (Though we could have done without some of the comments on one long post in particular.)
Only about 4 guys would have had a realistic chance to win the whole thing; however some people like to do these tournaments.

What I like about these kind of tournaments, is we get to discuss guys who never get any copy on this forum. And when we look back and re-evaluate those fighters careers, sometimes we get a new perspective or appreciation for some. It is interesting, imho, to match certain men up from different eras because A) we relive the age old debate of 'old vs new', B) we get to boast our knowledge of the game and of different eras collectively as a board, and C) though the argument never will decisively ever be determined or ended (as to the best of all time), we sure have fun while doing so.

[HomicideHenry]

Okay.... Tournament starts today....

David Price vs. Tommy Burns

Billy Wells vs. Kevin McBride

Alfio Righetti vs. Jake Kilrain

Tom Heeney vs. Scott LeDoux

Randall Tex Cobb vs. Joe Goddard

Roland LaStarza vs. Marvin Hart

Chuck Wepner vs. Al Pazer

Luther McCarty vs. Johnny Risko

Ruslan Chagaev vs. Pierre Coetzer

Nicolai Valuev vs. James J. Corbett

Those are the opening ten matches of the tournament

The winners will move on into the tournament!!!

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Price by KO
Wells by dec
Kilrain by KO
LeDoux by dec
Cobb by stoppage
LaStarza by dec
Pazer by Dec
McCarty by dec
Chagaev by dec
Corbett by dec

[man]

Of course not. Just having some fun

... and i didn't get it. my bad.

[HomicideHenry]

Price by KO
Wells by dec
Kilrain by KO
LeDoux by dec
Cobb by stoppage
LaStarza by dec
Pazer by Dec
McCarty by dec
Chagaev by dec
Corbett by dec

Thank you Saad for the contribution.

That's 1 vote Price, 1 vote Wells, 1 vote Kilrain, 1 vote LeDoux, 1 vote Cobb, 1 vote LaStarza, 1 vote Pazer, 1 vote McCarty, 1 vote Chagaev, and 1 vote Corbett. Come midnight tonight, the votes will be tallied, and those who were selected in majority will move on into the tournament--- and for my .02 here is my selections also (to keep this tournament moving fast):

Tommy Burns TKO 8 David Price

Billy Wells KO 5th Kevin McBride

Jake Kilrain Decisions Righetti

Tom Heeney Decisions LeDoux

Randall Tex Cobb Decisions Joe Goddard

Roland LaStarza Decisions Marvin Hart

Chuck Wepner Decisions Al Pazer

Luther McCarty KO 10th Johnny Risko

Ruslan Chagaev Decisions Pierre Coetzer

James J. Corbett Decisions Nicolai Valuev


Making the order now.... 2 votes Corbett, 2 votes Chagaev, 2 votes McCarty, 1 vote Wepner 1 vote Pazer, 2 votes LaStarza, 2 votes Cobb, 1 vote Heeney 1 vote LeDoux, 2 votes Kilrain, 2 votes Wells, 1 vote Burns 1 vote Price

[Duch]

Those are the opening ten matches of the tournament

The winners will move on into the tournament!!!

So, that's just the elimination for these guys?

I think you should write about these 10 fights in the first post or even open a new topic to make it more noticeable.

[giacomino]

When I think "white", I think of someone who speaks English as their first language or speaks an Eastern/Western European language, and is of an Eastern/Western European ancestry (for the most part) and of course is light skinned.

Spanish is an Eastern/Western European language and a large percentage of latinos in the Americas have Eastern/Western European ancestry and light skin. Not saying, just saying.

With that said:
Burns KO10
Wells KO8
Kilrain KO7
Henney UD
Cobb KO8
LaStarza UD
Wepner UD
McCarty UD
Chagaev UD
Corbett UD

[HomicideHenry]

With that said:
Burns KO10
Wells KO8
Kilrain KO7
Henney UD
Cobb KO8
LaStarza UD
Wepner UD
McCarty UD
Chagaev UD
Corbett UD

2 points Burns 1 point Price, 3 points Wells, 3 points Kilrain, 2 votes Heeney 1 vote LeDoux, 3 votes Cobb, 3 votes LaStarza, 2 votes Wepner 1 vote Pazer, 3 votes McCarty, 3 votes Chagaev, 3 votes Corbett...

Keep them coming people!

[The Great John L]

Burns KO 5 Price
Wells KO 2 McBride
Kilrain Dec Righetti
Heeney Dec LeDoux
Goddard Dec Cobb
Hart Dec LaStarza
Pazer TKO7 Wepner
McCarty Dec Risko
Chagaev Dec Coetzer
Corbett Dec Valuev

[Ambling Alp II]

Burns KO 7 Price
Wells Dec McBride
Kilrain KO 44 Righetti
Heeney Dec Ledoux
Goddard Dec Cobb
Hart Dec La Starza
Wepner Dec Palzer
Risko Dec McCarty
Chagaev Dec Coetzer
Corbett Dec Valuev

[HomicideHenry]

Burns- 4, Price 1

Wells- 5, McBride 0

Wepner- 3, Pazer 2

Heeney- 4, LeDoux 1

Cobb- 3, Goddard 2

McCarty- 4, Risko 1

LaStarza- 3, Risko 2

Chagaev- 5, Coetzer 0

Corbett- 5, Valuev 0

Kilrain- 5, Righetti 0

6:57:00 til midnight....

[drunkenpiper36]

I'd say from a legacy standpoint, Rocky Marciano is probably the best white heavyweight. But head to head? Could be one of any number of guys. Frankly, I think of any other white men beating Vitali Klitschko.

[SamWise72]

1973-1983:

Champions of The Era (10 Year Period)- Excluded: Ali, Spinks, Norton, Holmes, Tate, Weaver; Coetzee

Gerrie Coetzee is white.

Ponker picked the wrong South African in Pierre. What about about Johnny DuPlooy, who had real wrecking power!

Perhaps because DuPlooy got stopped by at least two other white heavyweights.

[Bodyshot3]

Du Plooy's an interesting one. In his major fights he seemed to either win big and very early, or get exactly the same medicine given to him. Corrie Sanders and Pierre Coetzer both won their big domestic battles with him but there are wins in there against Mike Weaver as well as Pritchard and Broad.

I lived in South Africa for a year and the very good M-Net channel used to show clips of his previous fights and he seemed like a guy with a serious arsenal but a very wild approach and not much of anything resembling a gameplan. Pity that he was not better-schooled/more patient because he might have at least matched Sanders and Gerrie Coetzee's achievements. I guess he must be ultimately marked down as a super-dangerous brawler/puncher.

[drunkenpiper36]

Du Plooy's an interesting one. In his major fights he seemed to either win big and very early, or get exactly the same medicine given to him. Corrie Sanders and Pierre Coetzer both won their big domestic battles with him but there are wins in there against Mike Weaver as well as Pritchard and Broad.

I lived in South Africa for a year and the very good M-Net channel used to show clips of his previous fights and he seemed like a guy with a serious arsenal but a very wild approach and not much of anything resembling a gameplan. Pity that he was not better-schooled/more patient because he might have at least matched Sanders and Gerrie Coetzee's achievements. I guess he must be ultimately marked down as a super-dangerous brawler/puncher.

I saw a replay of Duplooy's fight with Coetzer a few years back.. Great fight, with both men down. Johnny was an exciting guy to watch with a lot balls. Poor defense and a shaky chin were what limited him. I Don't know if he had the potential that Coetzee or Sanders did as you say though.