Live Fast, Die Young: The Life and Times of Harry Greb

[Ambling Alp II]

Looks like an interesting book. Hopefully it will get some attention.

[klompton]

Wrong as usual. I wont go through all of the mistakes in the post (there are many) but Greb made between $6935.47 and $7,012 for this fight. Flowers took home only between $1,623.65 and $2,743.65 (I give these two figures because the two Fremont papers gave seperate figures, in my book I wrote the higher number so as to simplify and not short change the fighters). You arrived at your mistaken purse amounts because you made several more mistakes in discussing the gate and what the fighters would be paid. Your gate is higher than what the actual gate was. Also, Flowers made 15% of whatever the gate was in excess of $15,000. So even by your incorrect gate tabulation if you take 35,000 -15,000 you are left with 20,000 x .15 = a $3,000 purse for Flowers. But again, your gate receipts are too high, hence his actual purse of between $1,623.65 and $2,743.65. Your purse figures dont make any sense as you have Greb (the champion) taking the pretty short money of the purse:

( Fight Purses have been announced, with Harry Greb to receive a guarantee of {$6000},
with the privilege of receiving 30% of the receipts if the Gate exceeds $30,000.)

Tiger Flowers will receive 35% of any amount over the Promoter Base of $15,000.

in a fight against a relatively unknown black southpaw in the rural midwest in 1924 when he was the draw and held not only championship but all of the bargaining chips. So potentially, if the fight made $30,000 Flowers would make $5,250 to Greb's $6,000. What champion would agree to that? This is a situation almost identical to the Liston-Foley fight you got slapped on around on where you very quickly, and shoddily, grabbed the first number you could find on Google news and didnt do any real research into the events.

So basically you spent most of yesterday and much of today posting incorrect, and largely fictional posts, in an effort to twist me off. I spent roughly the same amount of time salvaging a rare boxing film from 1921 featuring some of the only footage of a former champion that likely hasnt been seen in over 60 years (at best). Which one of us actually accomplished something and which one wasted his time...

[palooka]

I've not looked through all the thread and Bob Mee has brought a book out on Flowers.

[orbtastic]

Looks like an interesting book. Hopefully it will get some attention.

For sure, it's hefty old book and well worth a read. Don't let my minor gripes put you off, clearly a LOT of work has gone into it. I can also see why it's watermarked.

[klompton]

I bought it but haven't finished it yet.

One minor criticism - The windmill on each page, I found it really annoying after a few pages.

There's a ton of photos in the book too but some of them look like they've been photocopied several times and it might have been good to have them together in sections but I guess that's a minor, minor quibble.

The photos you refer to are likely newspaper photos that no longer exist in pristine quality. For some reason a handful of these looked worse in the book than the actual quality I have but they will never look perfect. The vast majority turned out as good as they would have anywhere else short of printing the entire book on photo paper.

Sorry you were bothered by the watermark.

I sense you're being a little sarcastic.

Both are valid criticisms and I said they were minor, however I've 100s of boxing books, probably nearing five hundred and this is the only book that has a watermark and photos like that. I'd imagine that's why the majority of them tend to have photos together in sections, on photo paper...

I understand you probably had restrictions with money and getting the whole thing off the ground but I've plenty of other private or self pressings of boxing biographies that aren't like this.

I wasnt being sarcastic at all. You paid for the book and as such I want you to enjoy it and be entertained. If something bothered you about it Im sorry. The watermark was an artistic design choice that I made. Its a valid criticism and I accept it.

As for the photos I was merely explaining the situation with them. I wanted as many photos as possible in the book in order to give a sense of style and movement to Greb since there is no film of him. I wanted to bring people close to him. There are several hundred photos in the book and as such there was no way I could (or would want to) group them together. The best solution was to have them accompany the text. Given that there are literally hundreds of photos, all of which are nearly 100 years old, the quality will vary. I did as much as humanly possible to make sure that those photos which were originally sourced from newspapers looked as photo-realistic as possible. Indeed Ive never seen or read about any other author going to the lengths I did to ensure the quality of the photos. Some of those newspaper photos turned out great and a very small minority were simply passible. Again, these were a small minority but still important to the overall flow of the book so I made the decision to leave them in as the vast majority were very uncommon and likely rarely seen.

[orbtastic]

There are definitely a lot of photos! Thanks for the explanation :)

[klompton]

There are definitely a lot of photos! Thanks for the explanation :)

No problem. I hope you enjoyed it anyway. Thanks for your interest in it.

[klompton]

Newspaper Account

Fight Promoter - Ray Bronson announced that he already had received $22,000 in Ticket Purchases before
the bout, and expected another $10,000 is Sales.

Harry Greb had a Guarantee of $6000 - with the privilege of accepting 30% of the Gate, if the receipts went
'over' $30,000.

The Newspaper stated, Receipts were expected to reach $35,000...........

Tiger Flowers had 'No Guarantee'. He was to receive 35% of anything above the Promoter Base of $15,000 -

Early estimates by Promoter - Ray Bronson calculated that the bout would do $22,000.
Harry Greb...... $6000
Tiger Flowers... $2450

Oh god, here we go with your "early estimates" bullshit. Really? You want to argue with me on this? Ive been researching these two fighters for 13 years. Youve pulled up "Newspaper Account" on google, YESTERDAY. Instead of making up shit as you go along why dont you quote me the Fremont Daily News and the Fremont Messenger? I would think they would know better than you what that FINAL figures were. No? Whats the matter? Cant find those on the internet? Whats that? Youd have to actually take your tinfoil hat off and go to the library, pay to have them shipped to you via interlibary loan, wait for them, and then look at them from something other than your arm chair? Oh, well, lets not go that far. Lets not actually do some real work. But go on, keep making a fool of yourself.

While youre at it, and claiming that Flowers could potentially call this a victory why dont you give us a break down on the ringside reports who voted for who? I'll make it easy for you its on page 529 of my book. Should be simple, you told everyone here three months ago that you purchased it (which I can track and you didnt. Yet another lie you were caught in) so go ahead. Enlighten us.

[klompton]

The Sheboygan Press did not have a representative at the fight. Nice try.

[gilgamesh]

The Sheboygan Press did not have a representative at the fight. Nice try.

He's just gonna keep rattling off BS no matter what you say, it's what he does.

[klompton]

You are quoting wire reports from newspapers that werent anywhere near Ohio. Shoddy shoddy shoddy.

You do know the difference between a wire report and a first hand source correct?

Once again, neither of those papers were present at the fight. You can quote hundreds if not thousands of newspapers that published a report of that fight, it doesnt mean they were there and actually saw it and in fact, given that a limited number of first hand sources (sometimes as few as ONE) went out over the wires you would likely be quoting the same report over and over and over and over. But a child of the internet age who knows nothing about that era and constantly makes it up as he goes along wont know that and telling him would only elicit further nonsense.

[klompton]

Another made up article.

[gilgamesh]

Another made up article.

That's all he does man. I don't know why he's allowed to keep posting here. It should be against Forum Rules to just post outright lies over and over again. There's a difference between expressing your opinion and just outright making up sh*t.

[BoxBuzz]

Il Duce......this is a rather serious and credible conversation taking place on this thread. And the author of this book is being generous sharing his time here.

If you don't have a reference for the "article" you placed I'm going to pull it out of this thread should Klompton ask me to. I doubt Klompton will drop in on your threads and contribute unless he has something to share that he can back up.

Please show him the same courtesy.

Humor me here.

[BoxBuzz]

You are quoting wire reports from newspapers that werent anywhere near Ohio. Shoddy shoddy shoddy.

You do know the difference between a wire report and a first hand source correct?

Once again, neither of those papers were present at the fight. You can quote hundreds if not thousands of newspapers that published a report of that fight, it doesnt mean they were there and actually saw it and in fact, given that a limited number of first hand sources (sometimes as few as ONE) went out over the wires you would likely be quoting the same report over and over and over and over. But a child of the internet age who knows nothing about that era and constantly makes it up as he goes along wont know that and telling him would only elicit further nonsense.

What I can't understand, is why this reasonable assertion has not elicited a response from ol Bag-0-Duce'

[Giancarlo]

You are quoting wire reports from newspapers that werent anywhere near Ohio. Shoddy shoddy shoddy.

You do know the difference between a wire report and a first hand source correct?

Once again, neither of those papers were present at the fight. You can quote hundreds if not thousands of newspapers that published a report of that fight, it doesnt mean they were there and actually saw it and in fact, given that a limited number of first hand sources (sometimes as few as ONE) went out over the wires you would likely be quoting the same report over and over and over and over. But a child of the internet age who knows nothing about that era and constantly makes it up as he goes along wont know that and telling him would only elicit further nonsense.

What I can't understand, is why this reasonable assertion has not elicited a response from ol Bag-0-Duce'

It seems he's busy filling up half a dozen or so other threads with the usual made up nonsense.

[orbtastic]

Yo Klompo, there's a thread in British and Irish where people are claiming Greb would be a nobody today in the modern era.

[klompton]

Yo Klompo, there's a thread in British and Irish where people are claiming Greb would be a nobody today in the modern era.

Ignorance abounds... Just look at what this thread has devolved into.

[Chuck1052]

One absolute turnoff about Bill Paxton's biography, The Fearless Harry Greb, is that Stanley Weston, the publisher of various boxing magazines during the 1970s and 1980s, is used as a source throughout the book. What did Weston really know about Greb except through sources which were far from being primary ones in the vast majority of cases? At least Nat Fleischer was a sportswriter, a sports editor at a New York newspaper and the publisher-editor of Ring Magazine in New York City at the time that Greb was active.

- Chuck Johnston

[klompton]

Amazon Rank in Books......#503,612

As reported by Amazon........

Can't wait for Part 2

Awww poor Douche. Trying to hurt my feelings by posting something he doesnt understand. Lets dive into this a little deeper. While right now my book is ranked 503,612, just yesterday it was ranked 170,000 or so. Two days before it was ranked in the 70,000s. A few days before that it was 200,000+ and early last week it was 37,000 or so. Its been ranked as high as 3,000 or so, and its been the #3 boxing book, which is impressive because at the same time Mike Tyson's book, which is a best seller, was abolutely killing it and hes got several versions of his book, my beat several of those out. Remarkable for a self published book. The numbers you are posting are reflective only of that Amazon site. Not Amazon.co.uk (where it is currently ranked 202,000 and has been ranked consistently high, usually in 10,000s) or any other site, nor does it reflect sales from other retailers or my own sales. Indeed sales have been steady and quite pleasing. For example, my book, which has been out several months longer currently outranks Adam Pollacks excellent book on Jack Johnson (buy this guys its great) no knock on his book, just a illustrative fact. It also outranks the Jeanette book (released a couple of months before mine), the Choynski book (released a bit after mind), and most other books that are of similar style and subject matter. Again, no knock at all on those books, just pointing out its sales compared to like books. So, sorry if you harping on what it is ranked at on that one site, at that moment in time doesnt bother me in the least.

[fatcity69]

I have all three biographies on Harry Greb, and have no hesitation in saying that 'Live fast, die young, the life and times of Harry Greb' by Mr Compton is far and away the best of all of them. I think its very sad that some elements in this forum seem to have been gripped by the green eyed monster concerning this book. Its the old story of some people who are incapable of achieving anything worthwhile themselves, trying to bring down someone who has managed to achieve something of merit, through ability and hard work. Anyway, this book will stand up in future years as a must have for anyone who wants a definitive work on Greb, but also a fantastic example of how thorough a biography can and should be. Anyone who can find such a work boring, well, perhaps you should stick to the Lady Bird books! .

[misterpunch]

I second that

[BoxBuzz]

Amazon Rank in Books......#503,612

As reported by Amazon........

Can't wait for Part 2

Awww poor Douche. Trying to hurt my feelings by posting something he doesnt understand. Lets dive into this a little deeper. While right now my book is ranked 503,612, just yesterday it was ranked 170,000 or so. Two days before it was ranked in the 70,000s. A few days before that it was 200,000+ and early last week it was 37,000 or so. Its been ranked as high as 3,000 or so, and its been the #3 boxing book, which is impressive because at the same time Mike Tyson's book, which is a best seller, was abolutely killing it and hes got several versions of his book, my beat several of those out. Remarkable for a self published book. The numbers you are posting are reflective only of that Amazon site. Not Amazon.co.uk (where it is currently ranked 202,000 and has been ranked consistently high, usually in 10,000s) or any other site, nor does it reflect sales from other retailers or my own sales. Indeed sales have been steady and quite pleasing. For example, my book, which has been out several months longer currently outranks Adam Pollacks excellent book on Jack Johnson (buy this guys its great) no knock on his book, just a illustrative fact. It also outranks the Jeanette book (released a couple of months before mine), the Choynski book (released a bit after mind), and most other books that are of similar style and subject matter. Again, no knock at all on those books, just pointing out its sales compared to like books. So, sorry if you harping on what it is ranked at on that one site, at that moment in time doesnt bother me in the least.

Say the word and I'll eliminate him from this thread. I have no problem with people advocating, or supporting writers, boxers, you name it. I have a very hard time with those who do little more than throw rocks within someone else's construct of ideas, or thoughts. He's welcome to speak his piece, and I want you to know you are very welcome and appreciated when you drop in here. I have been very impressed with much of your work. I suppose at book signings you probably have to face that occasional critic that just has nothing better to do than bring their snide side to your event. Seems they could find something they LIKED and participate in that instead. But some moths are only interested in the quasi trolling fires.

[palooka]

Amazon Rank in Books......#503,612

As reported by Amazon........

Can't wait for Part 2

Awww poor Douche. Trying to hurt my feelings by posting something he doesnt understand. Lets dive into this a little deeper. While right now my book is ranked 503,612, just yesterday it was ranked 170,000 or so. Two days before it was ranked in the 70,000s. A few days before that it was 200,000+ and early last week it was 37,000 or so. Its been ranked as high as 3,000 or so, and its been the #3 boxing book, which is impressive because at the same time Mike Tyson's book, which is a best seller, was abolutely killing it and hes got several versions of his book, my beat several of those out. Remarkable for a self published book. The numbers you are posting are reflective only of that Amazon site. Not Amazon.co.uk (where it is currently ranked 202,000 and has been ranked consistently high, usually in 10,000s) or any other site, nor does it reflect sales from other retailers or my own sales. Indeed sales have been steady and quite pleasing. For example, my book, which has been out several months longer currently outranks Adam Pollacks excellent book on Jack Johnson (buy this guys its great) no knock on his book, just a illustrative fact. It also outranks the Jeanette book (released a couple of months before mine), the Choynski book (released a bit after mind), and most other books that are of similar style and subject matter. Again, no knock at all on those books, just pointing out its sales compared to like books. So, sorry if you harping on what it is ranked at on that one site, at that moment in time doesnt bother me in the least.

You have worked and produced a labour of love; the rankings of a books sales in no way reflect what you have put in or how the reader appreciates your work. Greb was a fantastic fighter and he had to develop a pretty thick skin; I think that your skin may be thicker for your experience of Il Duce and I wouldn't take it personally as if someone else had taken the time and effort to produce something noteworthy then they would have got the same flak.

[BoxBuzz]

correctamundo!