REMEMBER 'BIG' JOHN TATE?

[TKOTOM]

Big John was a good boxer and decent puncher who also took a good punch. To say he had a glass chin was absurb. He was stopped by Weaver on one of Weaver's best nights. Remember Weaver was a very hard and strong puncher. And Berbick also pushed him to the limit, at a time in John's when wine women and false friends had taken it's toll. Give him his due. He was a big gentle guy who when he reached the top did'nt know how to handle it.

[Lickszz]

[quote="TKOTOM"]Big John was a good boxer and decent puncher who also took a good punch. To say he had a glass chin was absurb. He was stopped by Weaver on one of Weaver's best nights. Remember Weaver was a very hard and strong puncher. And Berbick also pushed him to the limit, at a time in John's when wine women and false friends had taken it's toll. Give him his due. He was a big gentle guy who when he reached the top did'nt know how to handle it.[/quote]

Why is it absurd? people say that Lennox Lewis has a glass chin even though whenever he's been down (which is only a couple of times) he has got back up. He's has never been knocked unconscious by a single punch. If Tate couldn't get himself in the best of shape that is his problem nobody elses. IMO Tate never reached the top to start with, it was more a case of right place, right time.

[TKOTOM]

Yes I did say he did not have a glass chin. In his fight with Weaver he took many hard shots until that one In the 15. And as far as bing In the right place at the right time 90% of championships are won being at the right place at the right time. Best shape best state of mind on that piticular date. He could fight Not a alltime great but he could fight!

[overhand_right]

forget it tom.

u wont change this guys mind. he got into a john tate thread having never watched a john tate fight and now he's stubbornly refusing to admit he doesn't know what he's talking about.

anyone with a basic knowledge of boxing can see from tates big fights that no way in hell does he have a glass chin.

[Lickszz]

[quote="overhand_right"]forget it tom.

u wont change this guys mind. he got into a john tate thread having never watched a john tate fight and now he's stubbornly refusing to admit he doesn't know what he's talking about.

anyone with a basic knowledge of boxing can see from tates big fights that no way in hell does he have a glass chin.[/quote]

I have seen Tate fight many times and especially against Weaver, are you refusing to admit that he was hit by 1 punch and knocked on his face and never even looked like getting up? How many other guys did Weaver knock unconscious with a single shot? "Tates Big Fights"? So far the biggest fight you have Tate been in is again Coetzee, isn't it?

[overhand_right]

last time i checked a world heavyweight title fight, held in front of 90, 000 people is a big fight.

everybody else accepts that tate does not have a glass chin. he was hit by a big shot by a big puncher.

your lack of knowledge on the most basic aspects of the game is pathetic.

i am not wasting any more time arguing with you.

[Lickszz]

[quote="overhand_right"]last time i checked a [b]world heavyweight title fight[/b], held in front of [b]90, 000 people [/b]is a big fight.

everybody else accepts that tate does not have a glass chin. he was hit by a big shot by a big puncher.

your lack of knowledge on the most basic aspects of the game is pathetic.

i am not wasting any more time arguing with you.[/quote]

Hmm, Did you forget I am fully aware about you getting laughed at on other forums that you can't show you face because of the crap you come out with? Then you try to justify reasons for been banned, I am sorry but you only get banned for blatant breach of the rules and/or speaking without thinking.

Once again you failed to answer the question again I see, didn'y you? Tate v Coetzee, that's his biggest fight and the one your ranting on about yes? The so called hardest one punch hitter in boxing along with Weaver, yes? As I already said Weavers KO record was decent but not spectacular. Tate got KO's by a single shot and was unconscious and never looked like getting up. People say that lewis has a glass chin even though he has been hit by far bigger punchers than Weaver and always gotten back up. I am not making any of this up these are FACTS.

[phil]

Psst...Overhand - his fight with Emory Chapman.............

[I'M STIRRING..............................:0) ]

pHIL

[HomicideHenry]

John Tate didn't have a bad chin. After all, he did fight such murderous punchers as Duane Bobick and kayoed them after absorbing some hard shots. Weaver landed the proverbial 'lucky punch'. It happens to fighters now and then. Then again, we aint necessarily talking about the creme de la creme in heavyweight history here--- people were getting kayoed and knocked off their ivory towers every whip stitch. Made for exciting fights, but no solid contenders. Makes me wish our era as of now was more like then. But no, Tate didn't have a soft chin--- he just was an 'average' heavyweight in terms of overall worth in the big picture; same as Coetzee, Dokes, Page, etc.

[Flump]

He was in the mix to fight Holmes around 84 if memory serves, but by this time he seemed to have lost his punch and his fitness. In other words, pretty much shot.

[Chuck1052]

John Tate was a big heavyweight for his time who had decent skills, a good work rate for a man of his size and fair stamina. I agree that Tate was winning handily in his bout with Mike Weaver before being flattened in the 15th round. It was the turning point in his career because he seemingly lost confidence in himself and was stopped again by Trevor Berbick in his next bout. I remember when Tate turned his back and seemly tried to run from Berbick during the bout.

In regards to Tate's ability to take a punch, I am in the camp who believes he did not do that well. If Tate was more durable, avoided drugs and had a stronger belief in himself, it may be that things would have turned out much better for him.

- Chuck Johnston

[The Great John L]

John Tate didn't have a bad chin. After all, he did fight such murderous punchers as Duane Bobick and kayoed them after absorbing some hard shots. Weaver landed the proverbial 'lucky punch'. It happens to fighters now and then. Then again, we aint necessarily talking about the creme de la creme in heavyweight history here--- people were getting kayoed and knocked off their ivory towers every whip stitch. Made for exciting fights, but no solid contenders. Makes me wish our era as of now was more like then. But no, Tate didn't have a soft chin--- he just was an 'average' heavyweight in terms of overall worth in the big picture; same as Coetzee, Dokes, Page, etc.

He beat Bobick, Knoetze and Coetzee prior to getting clocked in the last minute against Weaver and those guys did hit him. I think Chuck is correct that the Weaver fight changed him as I recall him turning from Berbick as well and Berbick was not half the puncher of Knoetze or Coetzee. He was actually a pretty good fighter whose size and work rate might have given Holmes some problems.

[SamWise72]

looooool! once again he skirts round the issue. i'll take that as a yes!

Whilst I disagree with his view here, whether or not he likes Tyson really ISN'T the issue, and he is asking you a question which relates to the topic of this thread, which you're not answering

[dempseyfire]

Wow this thread was brought back from the dead . . .

Tate was one of those guys who was the epitome of "does everything above average, but nothing great." He had solid fundamentals but wasn't slick; he could put combos together with fair quickness for his size but wasn't fast, had above average power but wasn't a knockout puncher. In an era of underachievers, all of these combined with him always coming into fights in shape and putting forth a solid work-rate earned him his brief run as a belt-holder. But I can't think of one of his fights that I'd like to re-watch again . . just not an exciting fighter to watch.

[Dart340]

I think dempseyfire's synopsis was about as close to the bullseye as you can land the arrow.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

John Tate didn't have a bad chin. After all, he did fight such murderous punchers as Duane Bobick and kayoed them after absorbing some hard shots. Weaver landed the proverbial 'lucky punch'. It happens to fighters now and then. Then again, we aint necessarily talking about the creme de la creme in heavyweight history here--- people were getting kayoed and knocked off their ivory towers every whip stitch. Made for exciting fights, but no solid contenders. Makes me wish our era as of now was more like then. But no, Tate didn't have a soft chin--- he just was an 'average' heavyweight in terms of overall worth in the big picture; same as Coetzee, Dokes, Page, etc.

He beat Bobick, Knoetze and Coetzee prior to getting clocked in the last minute against Weaver and those guys did hit him. I think Chuck is correct that the Weaver fight changed him as I recall him turning from Berbick as well and Berbick was not half the puncher of Knoetze or Coetzee. He was actually a pretty good fighter whose size and work rate might have given Holmes some problems.

Weaver rocked him in, I believe, the 12th too. Not granite chinned, but certainly not glass. Amazing how many times you hear that term thrown around. To me a glass chin would mean as soon as you're caught on it the fight is done.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

looooool! once again he skirts round the issue. i'll take that as a yes!

Whilst I disagree with his view here, whether or not he likes Tyson really ISN'T the issue, and he is asking you a question which relates to the topic of this thread, which you're not answering

LOL, that argument was over a decade ago. And really bad reading.

[The Great John L]

Weaver rocked him in, I believe, the 12th too. Not granite chinned, but certainly not glass. Amazing how many times you hear that term thrown around. To me a glass chin would mean as soon as you're caught on it the fight is done.

Yeah I remember Tate pretty much dominated the fight until that shot near the end of the 12th. Tate then fought much more cautiously until he got clocked with about 45 seconds left in the fight.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Weaver rocked him in, I believe, the 12th too. Not granite chinned, but certainly not glass. Amazing how many times you hear that term thrown around. To me a glass chin would mean as soon as you're caught on it the fight is done.

Yeah I remember Tate pretty much dominated the fight until that shot near the end of the 12th. Tate then fought much more cautiously until he got clocked with about 45 seconds left in the fight.

I'll never forget that night, Holmes/Weaver, Leonard/Green & I think it was Mustafa/Johnson. I was punished for something, so my Dad wouldn't let me watch it. I'm pretty sure it was a Monday night, and I had one of those radios with the 3 main TV channels on it so I put in my headphones and listened to the fights in bed.

[The Great John L]

Weaver rocked him in, I believe, the 12th too. Not granite chinned, but certainly not glass. Amazing how many times you hear that term thrown around. To me a glass chin would mean as soon as you're caught on it the fight is done.

Yeah I remember Tate pretty much dominated the fight until that shot near the end of the 12th. Tate then fought much more cautiously until he got clocked with about 45 seconds left in the fight.

I'll never forget that night, Holmes/Weaver, Leonard/Green & I think it was Mustafa/Johnson. I was punished for something, so my Dad wouldn't let me watch it. I'm pretty sure it was a Monday night, and I had one of those radios with the 3 main TV channels on it so I put in my headphones and listened to the fights in bed.

It was certainly one of the great endings of a HW title fight.

Tate also handed Mercado his first loss, and Bernardo also had some power.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Domingo D'Elia & Randy Neumann were not "hard hitters".

[The Great John L]

Domingo D'Elia & Randy Neumann were not "hard hitters".

Don't confuse him with facts.

[drunkenpiper36]

Haven't seen too much footage of Tate, but I've seen parts of his bouts with Weaver and Coetzee, and liked what I saw. Decent boxer with a fair amount of fluid movement for a big guy. His record doesn't look to shabby either. Probably not a great fighter but certainly decent

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Domingo D'Elia & Randy Neumann were not "hard hitters".

They were, good punchers.

Or, as their press releases stated........ ;;-)

They were below average punchers.

[The Great John L]

Haven't seen too much footage of Tate, but I've seen parts of his bouts with Weaver and Coetzee, and liked what I saw. Decent boxer with a fair amount of fluid movement for a big guy. His record doesn't look to shabby either. Probably not a great fighter but certainly decent

Since VK is now retired, if Tate were in his prime now he would be the second best active HW.