Classic American West Coast Boxing

[Chuck1052]

Jose Sulaiman, the longtime head of the World Boxing Council, has passed away in Los Angeles.

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

Jose Sulaiman, the longtime head of the World Boxing Council, has passed away in Los Angeles.

- Chuck Johnston

When I remember Sulaiman,I also think of Eileen Eaton and George Parnassus.Three giants of Classic West Coast Boxing.RIP.

[dagosd2000]

Over To You


I remember when we were kids in grammar school Norman and me would go to the playground and put on the gloves and box with each other. Soon we'd draw a crowd around us and eventually some of the other kids would want to join in. I was the biggest kid and I would have to say Norman was the smallest. It would have been easy to just overpower Norman,but I wanted to show what boxing ability I had which in reality was none. I always figured because of my size advantage I had over Norman that I had nothing to worry about with him. But it always wound up turning into the same thing. Norman would never give up. He'd keep coming in and never stop flailing. He couldn't hurt me ,but after awhile I wanted him to stop. I'd load up on a punch thinking it would stop his advances ,but he never stopped coming in.What always got me was that Norman would always be smiling as he tried to get inside my guard. Even when I'd smack him real hard wanting him to stop,he'd be smiling. Finally,I'd say "That's enough Norman. I don't want to fight anymore."

After high school Norman got married to a real cute girl and went to work driving a delivery truck. I went to college to play football. One day Norman told me he got his draft notice. Shortly afterward he told me his wife was pregnant. Norman went into the army as an artillery gunner. While he was in Nam,Norman got wounded. He was hit by shrapnel pulling his buddies from the battlefield. It was a head wound. They had to operate many times to get all the shrapnel out. The wound affected Norman's speech and balance. He was in the Balboa Naval Hospital for almost a year.Once a week we'd all go visit Norman. Eventually Norman's speech got straightened out,but he left the hospital having to walk with a cane.I know Norman got a medal for what he did in Nam.

We found out later that while Norman was in the hospital his wife was sleeping around.That didn't sit well at all with Norman. They broke up and the wife moved back east with the daughter. Shortly afterwards I'd see Norman walking with the cane in the neighborhood. He'd wear a fedora while he was walking his dog. I remember one day I was coming out of the gym and saw Norman walking down the street.
"Norman,"I yelled at him. "You son of a bitch. How the hell is it going?"
"Roger,good to see you. What's going on?"
"Just finished a workout."
"Remember when we used to put on the gloves?"
"I sure do. You'd never stop."
Norman 's dog sat by his side while we talked.Norman physically was roughed up after Nam ,but he never lost that wide smile of his.
"Norman,where are you headed?"
"Going to the store to do some grocery shopping.The doctors tell me to eat a fish diet. Say it's good for my heart."
"A lot of the fish we get is from Nam,"I said."They say it's loaded with antibiotics and is grown in sludge ponds."
Norman looked away from me. He wasn't smiling.
"Every time I see that shit packaged up I won't buy it."
Norman's dog sat up and was looking up at Norman.
"Well Rog,I got to get to the store. Besides,Spunky's hungry. I got to get him his food."
"See you pal,"I said to Norman as he started to walk with his dog.
"Let me know when you want to put on the gloves,"he said.
"Not me,"I answered. "You'd never stop coming in. You'd wear me out like you always did."
Norman just turned around and smiled.

[dagosd2000]

Stanley Ketchel

[Chuck1052]

Over the last few weeks, there have been a number of articles in the Los Angeles Times about vigilante groups in Michoacan, including one in today's edition. Although, I am generally wary of vigilante groups or mobs taking the law into their own hands, it is somewhat encouraging to see that many Mexicans are fed up with the current situation.

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

Over the last few weeks, there have been a number of articles in the Los Angeles Times about vigilante groups in Michoacan, including one in today's edition. Although, I am generally wary of vigilante groups or mobs taking the law into their own hands, it is somewhat encouraging to see that many Mexicans are fed up with the current situation.

- Chuck Johnston

Chuck,we'll see what happens with the rebels in Michoacan. If by some miracle they succeed,there must be reason to worry that they won't become the new cartel and just another problem in a long history of power struggles in Mexico. Remember that when the locals before became fed up with the cartels and succeeded ,they just stepped in and became the new drug lords.The status quo remained the same.Let's hope it's just not an aspiring new cartel that wants to take over.There is too much foreign investment in Mexico now for the investors to let a socialist government take over. Whatever government there is in Mexico today,they will play ball with the foreign investors. And that means if the drug trafficker want to run the local populace...que sera,sera.

[CNorkusJr]

In the articles covering the lead-up to the fight (my father had the forethought to bring home the dailies from the cities he fought in), the articles were all pro Powell as you can tell. After the first fight, some of the writers made sure Powell's broken hand was the lead cause of the loss. Maybe it did, but Powell's guard was let down by flying lefts. Many writers I see here praised my father for his ability to take punches and stay in the game. A few guys said exactly what you thought, for Powell to return to football. As a great athlete and former all-Pro star with the 49ers, Powell's mind was made up to stay in the ring. And rightly so.

My father said he had very good skills and talent, but his dejection over such a loss would take the heart out of any fighter rising up. He had a possible title shot with Rocky, and that was put on the back burner. The fight meant so much to Powell, and a loss in front of the fans had to be very tough on his ego.

It was the exact same story 10 months earlier with Danny Nardico- the same exact circumstances. Danny 3rd ranked Lt-Heavy moved up to 18o lbs to fight my dad under the same auspices. Nardico readily admitted he made a huge mistake after his 1st beating followed up by another loss 2 months later to my father.
What they probably didnt know was what was going on in New York when Rocky would pick and choose his opponents.

When Al Weill saw what my father was doing in the ring fighting out of New Jersey right out of the starting gate in 1948; he liked what he saw immediately. He petitioned those in charge to buy a piece of my father repeatedly. Officially-you will find no paper stating of that transaction.Al Weill likened my father's training and boxing skills to Rocky style. Weill, the match-maker at the Garden Productions office couldnt even claim Marciano as his boy because of his job there (conflict of interest). But he sure as hell ran his career. When Rocky got too big for his britches record wise-Weill left the Garden to go on record with Rocky.And a few others. Hal Boylston was another, Tommy Harrison after he left LA to go to Providence. But my father stayed put.

What Weill did was smart. Whether he had a piece of my father or not (my dad said no, never, but he might not have known himself), my father was Rocky's front man.
Rocky and Weill wanted to see what future possible opponents might look like against a guy with the same way Rocky fought. Low hands, hard head(can take a punch) and a KO punch to boot. Weill put my father in with no less than 6 guys before their possible fights with Rocky. LaStarza was the only delay because the Norkus-LaStarza fight was cancelled in Providence,RI because LaStarza had cuts still healing from a previous fight he had only weeks earlier. Harrison was substituted in (Rocky's sparring partner). Then Rocky fought LaStarza and almost beat him.Thats why my father fought Nardico,Powell, Boylston and others - so Rocky can get a look see. A "Ring Spoiler" they called my father.

The promise at the end of all this. Look at my dads career. 1954 ends with my dad as a top contender and Weill says to him- " Wait, Dont fight. Train. Tread Water Rocky has a few promises to take care of,then its your turn Charley if everything lines up".

Marciano HAD to fight Ezzard Charles. Top contender and money making fights.
Rocky was promised a rematch with Charles if he lost the first one, he didn't, but they decided to rematch anyway, too much money on line for Rocky to pass up. Thats why my father didnt fight in early months of 1955. If he did and lost-no possibile title fight. Dad had money to live on because of his fights in 1954 all on TV.

Ezzard Charles loses twice and Weill dropped a hammer on my father. He played my father liked he used to let my father play others for Rocky. Weill says " Fight Ezzard Charles- you beat Charles, you get Rocky". My father was pissed, but understood the game. Norkus-Charles goes 10 Rds but it wasnt close. My father closed Ezzard's right eye but the wily Ezzard protected it from my fathers left hooks. So much for that. He still was pay day fodder for others though. Changed management taking on a former high ranked middleweight Marty Sampson as his new trainer, and he got him some nice pay with TV fights with Moore and Pastrano and others.

I watched my father give many interviews for TV, magazines and papers over the years. My father always stuck with the same story, ALWAYS.

Magazine: Charlie -you never got a shot versus Rocky, you ever feel bad about that ?

Charley Norkus: No, I dont look back on things like that. I made a pretty good living for my family, my wife Margie and my son, Charlie Jr to be comfortable on at the
time.

Magazine: If you did face Rocky, do you think you could beat him ?

Charley Norkus: Rocky was the toughest and hardest puncher I ever saw. I knew Rocky well. I don't know if I would have beat him, but I can tell you that it would have
a very intersesting fight.

He made those statements with conviction, but deep down, I think he wanted that shot, who wouldnt when you were that close.
My father told me privately that he felt that Rocky had trouble with left handed punchers. THat was one thing he and Weill were looking out for in his fight previews.
Rocky let his right hand dangle after a hard thrown punch-and if he missed with it, left him with no defense of lefts coming over the top of it. My father was counting on that. My father would also end with- " You had to hope Rocky missed you-if he didnt- you could of had a sledge hammer of a left, it didnt matter"

Rocky and Charley at "The Town and Country" niteclub in Brooklyn, NY 1961 The place was mobbed run but every big named entertainer played it.



I downloaded a few other Norkus fights on Youtube.com. Trying to get a few more up there too.

Charley,very informative. Tell me,after Marciano retired,where did your father stand with the promoters? I see he lost to Roy Harris and then later Harris got a shot at Patterson.I know Cus D'Amato was very careful with Floyd. I would think that you dad would have given Patterson a lot of problems.

Sorry for delay Roger, I was very busy the last few days. After Marciano announced his retirement in 1955, my father was not surprised at first. It was common practice by fighters then (and somewhat now) and all of sudden ,come out of retirement and fight. Especially being the Champ. He thought for sure that Rocky would do the same-but only take a breather for a few months. My father stayed in shape. Though his loss to Charles in 1955 knocked him down a few pegs in the top ten, he felt if he could fight his way back to Marciano if Rocky came back into the picture.
1956 was a down year for my father. But losing to Harris and Pastrano was not too shameful as both were much younger and quicker. He sandwiched a solid win over Joe Rowan in between.(posted on youtube) My father had changed trainers/mgrs after Ezz Charles. He now had a former top middlewt. contender Marty Sampson at the helm. Sampson had connections but my father's name was forged by his efforts and KO power in the ring.
In hind sight,and in a nutshell, promoters need entertainers. My father always gave the crowd their money's worth with only a few exceptions including his fight with Roland LaStarza. (My father rued that fight stating in the papers the next day " I's should have knocked LaStarza out, but Roland didnt want to get into it, but I take the blame for not being more aggressive".

Teddy Brenner stilled liked my father on TV. He was a big TV draw and the numbers he brought intio the arena on a televised night were very good. He had solid backing from the Irish dock workers here, the Police Dept on Long Island where he lived (Pt. Washington, NY) and numerous Marine Corps and servicemen who rembered him from the service days, besides a following of boxing fans who saw his televised bouts versus Powell and Nardico. The bottom line for the promoter was " MONEY". and my father was money in the bag. In 1957, my father had a sensational comeback year in defeating OBrien, Crowe Peele in his hometown New Orleans twice and Johnson. Little known Thurman "Crowe" Peele was a sensational fighter (former NCAA Champ from LSU) and was undefeated when my father was brought in to fight him. A carbon copy of The Charlie Powell & Nardico fights, my father went to Peele's hometown and put him on his ass in front of sold out throngs rooting for the hometown kid.

Madison Square Garden ate it up and my father found himself with fights Moore and McMurtry on TV. A repeat with Charlie Powell in San Diego, not televised . Losing those and any hope with Patterson as well. The 2nd Powell fight was truly a said story on the way the promoters worked. I have an article here I dont know I want to post it. With much due respect to a great fighter, I wont.

Powell had changed mgrs by 1958, Welsh was gone. Charlie was chomping at the bit to avenge the Norkus fight from 1954. There was no secret there at all and you can ask him about it. Every year it came into play by phone calls, but my father wanted to stay a certain course for Patterson.After his losses to Moore and MCMurtry in their hometowns and my father not having a shot at Patterson anymore, the Powell fight made sense. To draw every last drop of blood and coin in the ring, the promoters fell back onto what can sell. TV fights had brought large live audiences to a standstill now. Many people stated wrote about the demise of live gate boxing and face it, Powell still rising wanted that fight big. My father on the down turn now took any last sellable he can.

The facts : My father's mgr. hoping to get every thing he can stated that my father wanted $3,000 and two plane tickets for the San Diego fight. The fight not being televised didnt have the $5,000 guaranteefor each fighter, every dollar had to come out of the live gate. Hoping to promote this one by hyping the "The Revenge factor of the first go-round", San Diego was hopefully going to turn out large for hometown hero Powell. Powell's camp risked much for this. But a decent draw would make a few dollars. Dec 19th,1958, The draw was terrible. A gate of 2,822 saw a total pay of $9,000. The fight was a lackluster fight with Powell getting every round to erase his ring blot.
Writer Bob Ortman, Evening tribune wrote " ... the crowd started booing at the end of round one and continued through the seventh, until the cheers rang up for a pair of fights that broke out in the crowd that drew the attention away from the ring....". Each fighter got $1,500 and Powell handing over his money to Norkus for the guarantee. Powell actually "lost money" out of his pocket by having to pay for the two airlines tickets. But the record will show a 10 round dec. for Charlie's heart.

My father would fight only one more time Feb 4th a 10 rd dec. over S. Car. hometown hero Waban Thomas at Camp Lejeune. My father fought there as a tribute to his US Marine followers over the years.

My father was shot on Sept 2,1959 while tending bar in Times Square, NYC. Fighter and friend Paddy Flood was bouncer in this decent place that drew tourists and locals. Of course the occaisional riff-raff would meander in. At 10 pm, an obvious drunk came in the unguarded door when Paddy was picking up glasses in the back. The man harassed woman sitting nearby. Asked to leave, he made more of a nuisance. Paddy came over and physically threw the man out, all time, my father was behind the bar. At 2 am, he came back. Paddy and my father were preparing to close early as the crowd was down to just a few.
The man came in and my father close by went over to help him find the door. As my father drew near he pulled out a .38 and the first shot caught my father in the stomach as he turned. My father grabbed his hands and they wrestled. He managed a 2nd shot entering my father's inner thigh. My father managed to throw a right cross knocking out the his assailant. The police came right away and an ambulance soon followed. My father went through 4 hours surgery and the first bullet actually traveled around his waist line and exited his back. The doctor said he had strong abdominal muscles and the angle of him turning kept it from penatrating straight in. The 2nd more riskier shot ended up a 1/4 inch away from his femoral artery. Though my father lost quite a bit of blood, this removal was quite delicate but successful at St Lukes/Roosevelt Hosp 5 blocks away. The assailant was out on parole for just 6 months after spending 12 years in Sing Sing prison for murdering his wife. All sorts of parole viuolations and attempted murder charge sent this career criminal back for the rest of his life which ended in 1984.Interestingly, prison correction guards who were Charley Norkus boxing fans kept my father abreast of this guy's happenings through the years. When the man died in prison, the warden himself called my father to tell him. My father had worried that this guy might get out again and do harm to us.

The shooting had put a definite ending to any possible future fight.


My father was the bartender, not the bouncer:



My father's second and last trainer/mgr, Marty Sampson

[dagosd2000]

In the articles covering the lead-up to the fight (my father had the forethought to bring home the dailies from the cities he fought in), the articles were all pro Powell as you can tell. After the first fight, some of the writers made sure Powell's broken hand was the lead cause of the loss. Maybe it did, but Powell's guard was let down by flying lefts. Many writers I see here praised my father for his ability to take punches and stay in the game. A few guys said exactly what you thought, for Powell to return to football. As a great athlete and former all-Pro star with the 49ers, Powell's mind was made up to stay in the ring. And rightly so.

My father said he had very good skills and talent, but his dejection over such a loss would take the heart out of any fighter rising up. He had a possible title shot with Rocky, and that was put on the back burner. The fight meant so much to Powell, and a loss in front of the fans had to be very tough on his ego.

It was the exact same story 10 months earlier with Danny Nardico- the same exact circumstances. Danny 3rd ranked Lt-Heavy moved up to 18o lbs to fight my dad under the same auspices. Nardico readily admitted he made a huge mistake after his 1st beating followed up by another loss 2 months later to my father.
What they probably didnt know was what was going on in New York when Rocky would pick and choose his opponents.

When Al Weill saw what my father was doing in the ring fighting out of New Jersey right out of the starting gate in 1948; he liked what he saw immediately. He petitioned those in charge to buy a piece of my father repeatedly. Officially-you will find no paper stating of that transaction.Al Weill likened my father's training and boxing skills to Rocky style. Weill, the match-maker at the Garden Productions office couldnt even claim Marciano as his boy because of his job there (conflict of interest). But he sure as hell ran his career. When Rocky got too big for his britches record wise-Weill left the Garden to go on record with Rocky.And a few others. Hal Boylston was another, Tommy Harrison after he left LA to go to Providence. But my father stayed put.

What Weill did was smart. Whether he had a piece of my father or not (my dad said no, never, but he might not have known himself), my father was Rocky's front man.
Rocky and Weill wanted to see what future possible opponents might look like against a guy with the same way Rocky fought. Low hands, hard head(can take a punch) and a KO punch to boot. Weill put my father in with no less than 6 guys before their possible fights with Rocky. LaStarza was the only delay because the Norkus-LaStarza fight was cancelled in Providence,RI because LaStarza had cuts still healing from a previous fight he had only weeks earlier. Harrison was substituted in (Rocky's sparring partner). Then Rocky fought LaStarza and almost beat him.Thats why my father fought Nardico,Powell, Boylston and others - so Rocky can get a look see. A "Ring Spoiler" they called my father.

The promise at the end of all this. Look at my dads career. 1954 ends with my dad as a top contender and Weill says to him- " Wait, Dont fight. Train. Tread Water Rocky has a few promises to take care of,then its your turn Charley if everything lines up".

Marciano HAD to fight Ezzard Charles. Top contender and money making fights.
Rocky was promised a rematch with Charles if he lost the first one, he didn't, but they decided to rematch anyway, too much money on line for Rocky to pass up. Thats why my father didnt fight in early months of 1955. If he did and lost-no possibile title fight. Dad had money to live on because of his fights in 1954 all on TV.

Ezzard Charles loses twice and Weill dropped a hammer on my father. He played my father liked he used to let my father play others for Rocky. Weill says " Fight Ezzard Charles- you beat Charles, you get Rocky". My father was pissed, but understood the game. Norkus-Charles goes 10 Rds but it wasnt close. My father closed Ezzard's right eye but the wily Ezzard protected it from my fathers left hooks. So much for that. He still was pay day fodder for others though. Changed management taking on a former high ranked middleweight Marty Sampson as his new trainer, and he got him some nice pay with TV fights with Moore and Pastrano and others.

I watched my father give many interviews for TV, magazines and papers over the years. My father always stuck with the same story, ALWAYS.

Magazine: Charlie -you never got a shot versus Rocky, you ever feel bad about that ?

Charley Norkus: No, I dont look back on things like that. I made a pretty good living for my family, my wife Margie and my son, Charlie Jr to be comfortable on at the
time.

Magazine: If you did face Rocky, do you think you could beat him ?

Charley Norkus: Rocky was the toughest and hardest puncher I ever saw. I knew Rocky well. I don't know if I would have beat him, but I can tell you that it would have
a very intersesting fight.

He made those statements with conviction, but deep down, I think he wanted that shot, who wouldnt when you were that close.
My father told me privately that he felt that Rocky had trouble with left handed punchers. THat was one thing he and Weill were looking out for in his fight previews.
Rocky let his right hand dangle after a hard thrown punch-and if he missed with it, left him with no defense of lefts coming over the top of it. My father was counting on that. My father would also end with- " You had to hope Rocky missed you-if he didnt- you could of had a sledge hammer of a left, it didnt matter"

Rocky and Charley at "The Town and Country" niteclub in Brooklyn, NY 1961 The place was mobbed run but every big named entertainer played it.



I downloaded a few other Norkus fights on Youtube.com. Trying to get a few more up there too.

Charley,very informative. Tell me,after Marciano retired,where did your father stand with the promoters? I see he lost to Roy Harris and then later Harris got a shot at Patterson.I know Cus D'Amato was very careful with Floyd. I would think that you dad would have given Patterson a lot of problems.

Sorry for delay Roger, I was very busy the last few days. After Marciano announced his retirement in 1955, my father was not surprised at first. It was common practice by fighters then (and somewhat now) and all of sudden ,come out of retirement and fight. Especially being the Champ. He thought for sure that Rocky would do the same-but only take a breather for a few months. My father stayed in shape. Though his loss to Charles in 1955 knocked him down a few pegs in the top ten, he felt if he could fight his way back to Marciano if Rocky came back into the picture.
1956 was a down year for my father. But losing to Harris and Pastrano was not too shameful as both were much younger and quicker. He sandwiched a solid win over Joe Rowan in between.(posted on youtube) My father had changed trainers/mgrs after Ezz Charles. He now had a former top middlewt. contender Marty Sampson at the helm. Sampson had connections but my father's name was forged by his efforts and KO power in the ring.
In hind sight,and in a nutshell, promoters need entertainers. My father always gave the crowd their money's worth with only a few exceptions including his fight with Roland LaStarza. (My father rued that fight stating in the papers the next day " I's should have knocked LaStarza out, but Roland didnt want to get into it, but I take the blame for not being more aggressive".

Teddy Brenner stilled liked my father on TV. He was a big TV draw and the numbers he brought intio the arena on a televised night were very good. He had solid backing from the Irish dock workers here, the Police Dept on Long Island where he lived (Pt. Washington, NY) and numerous Marine Corps and servicemen who rembered him from the service days, besides a following of boxing fans who saw his televised bouts versus Powell and Nardico. The bottom line for the promoter was " MONEY". and my father was money in the bag. In 1957, my father had a sensational comeback year in defeating OBrien, Crowe Peele in his hometown New Orleans twice and Johnson. Little known Thurman "Crowe" Peele was a sensational fighter (former NCAA Champ from LSU) and was undefeated when my father was brought in to fight him. A carbon copy of The Charlie Powell & Nardico fights, my father went to Peele's hometown and put him on his ass in front of sold out throngs rooting for the hometown kid.

Madison Square Garden ate it up and my father found himself with fights Moore and McMurtry on TV. A repeat with Charlie Powell in San Diego, not televised . Losing those and any hope with Patterson as well. The 2nd Powell fight was truly a said story on the way the promoters worked. I have an article here I dont know I want to post it. With much due respect to a great fighter, I wont.

Powell had changed mgrs by 1958, Welsh was gone. Charlie was chomping at the bit to avenge the Norkus fight from 1954. There was no secret there at all and you can ask him about it. Every year it came into play by phone calls, but my father wanted to stay a certain course for Patterson.After his losses to Moore and MCMurtry in their hometowns and my father not having a shot at Patterson anymore, the Powell fight made sense. To draw every last drop of blood and coin in the ring, the promoters fell back onto what can sell. TV fights had brought large live audiences to a standstill now. Many people stated wrote about the demise of live gate boxing and face it, Powell still rising wanted that fight big. My father on the down turn now took any last sellable he can.

The facts : My father's mgr. hoping to get every thing he can stated that my father wanted $3,000 and two plane tickets for the San Diego fight. The fight not being televised didnt have the $5,000 guaranteefor each fighter, every dollar had to come out of the live gate. Hoping to promote this one by hyping the "The Revenge factor of the first go-round", San Diego was hopefully going to turn out large for hometown hero Powell. Powell's camp risked much for this. But a decent draw would make a few dollars. Dec 19th,1958, The draw was terrible. A gate of 2,822 saw a total pay of $9,000. The fight was a lackluster fight with Powell getting every round to erase his ring blot.
Writer Bob Ortman, Evening tribune wrote " ... the crowd started booing at the end of round one and continued through the seventh, until the cheers rang up for a pair of fights that broke out in the crowd that drew the attention away from the ring....". Each fighter got $1,500 and Powell handing over his money to Norkus for the guarantee. Powell actually "lost money" out of his pocket by having to pay for the two airlines tickets. But the record will show a 10 round dec. for Charlie's heart.

My father would fight only one more time Feb 4th a 10 rd dec. over S. Car. hometown hero Waban Thomas at Camp Lejeune. My father fought there as a tribute to his US Marine followers over the years.

My father was shot on Sept 2,1959 while tending bar in Times Square, NYC. Fighter and friend Paddy Flood was bouncer in this decent place that drew tourists and locals. Of course the occaisional riff-raff would meander in. At 10 pm, an obvious drunk came in the unguarded door when Paddy was picking up glasses in the back. The man harassed woman sitting nearby. Asked to leave, he made more of a nuisance. Paddy came over and physically threw the man out, all time, my father was behind the bar. At 2 am, he came back. Paddy and my father were preparing to close early as the crowd was down to just a few.
The man came in and my father close by went over to help him find the door. As my father drew near he pulled out a .38 and the first shot caught my father in the stomach as he turned. My father grabbed his hands and they wrestled. He managed a 2nd shot entering my father's inner thigh. My father managed to throw a right cross knocking out the his assailant. The police came right away and an ambulance soon followed. My father went through 4 hours surgery and the first bullet actually traveled around his waist line and exited his back. The doctor said he had strong abdominal muscles and the angle of him turning kept it from penatrating straight in. The 2nd more riskier shot ended up a 1/4 inch away from his femoral artery. Though my father lost quite a bit of blood, this removal was quite delicate but successful at St Lukes/Roosevelt Hosp 5 blocks away. The assailant was out on parole for just 6 months after spending 12 years in Sing Sing prison for murdering his wife. All sorts of parole viuolations and attempted murder charge sent this career criminal back for the rest of his life which ended in 1984.Interestingly, prison correction guards who were Charley Norkus boxing fans kept my father abreast of this guy's happenings through the years. When the man died in prison, the warden himself called my father to tell him. My father had worried that this guy might get out again and do harm to us.

The shooting had put a definite ending to any possible future fight.


My father was the bartender, not the bouncer:



My father's second and last trainer/mgr, Marty Sampson

Thanks Charley. Great story. I know you were kind of surprised when you found out how small the San Diego Coliseum was. They should have made the fight with Powell at the old San Diego Padres(minor league team) ball park. It held around 8 thousand. Archie Moore fought many times there. I'm sure your dad's fight with Powell would have sold out.

[dagosd2000]

In the articles covering the lead-up to the fight (my father had the forethought to bring home the dailies from the cities he fought in), the articles were all pro Powell as you can tell. After the first fight, some of the writers made sure Powell's broken hand was the lead cause of the loss. Maybe it did, but Powell's guard was let down by flying lefts. Many writers I see here praised my father for his ability to take punches and stay in the game. A few guys said exactly what you thought, for Powell to return to football. As a great athlete and former all-Pro star with the 49ers, Powell's mind was made up to stay in the ring. And rightly so.

My father said he had very good skills and talent, but his dejection over such a loss would take the heart out of any fighter rising up. He had a possible title shot with Rocky, and that was put on the back burner. The fight meant so much to Powell, and a loss in front of the fans had to be very tough on his ego.

It was the exact same story 10 months earlier with Danny Nardico- the same exact circumstances. Danny 3rd ranked Lt-Heavy moved up to 18o lbs to fight my dad under the same auspices. Nardico readily admitted he made a huge mistake after his 1st beating followed up by another loss 2 months later to my father.
What they probably didnt know was what was going on in New York when Rocky would pick and choose his opponents.

When Al Weill saw what my father was doing in the ring fighting out of New Jersey right out of the starting gate in 1948; he liked what he saw immediately. He petitioned those in charge to buy a piece of my father repeatedly. Officially-you will find no paper stating of that transaction.Al Weill likened my father's training and boxing skills to Rocky style. Weill, the match-maker at the Garden Productions office couldnt even claim Marciano as his boy because of his job there (conflict of interest). But he sure as hell ran his career. When Rocky got too big for his britches record wise-Weill left the Garden to go on record with Rocky.And a few others. Hal Boylston was another, Tommy Harrison after he left LA to go to Providence. But my father stayed put.

What Weill did was smart. Whether he had a piece of my father or not (my dad said no, never, but he might not have known himself), my father was Rocky's front man.
Rocky and Weill wanted to see what future possible opponents might look like against a guy with the same way Rocky fought. Low hands, hard head(can take a punch) and a KO punch to boot. Weill put my father in with no less than 6 guys before their possible fights with Rocky. LaStarza was the only delay because the Norkus-LaStarza fight was cancelled in Providence,RI because LaStarza had cuts still healing from a previous fight he had only weeks earlier. Harrison was substituted in (Rocky's sparring partner). Then Rocky fought LaStarza and almost beat him.Thats why my father fought Nardico,Powell, Boylston and others - so Rocky can get a look see. A "Ring Spoiler" they called my father.

The promise at the end of all this. Look at my dads career. 1954 ends with my dad as a top contender and Weill says to him- " Wait, Dont fight. Train. Tread Water Rocky has a few promises to take care of,then its your turn Charley if everything lines up".

Marciano HAD to fight Ezzard Charles. Top contender and money making fights.
Rocky was promised a rematch with Charles if he lost the first one, he didn't, but they decided to rematch anyway, too much money on line for Rocky to pass up. Thats why my father didnt fight in early months of 1955. If he did and lost-no possibile title fight. Dad had money to live on because of his fights in 1954 all on TV.

Ezzard Charles loses twice and Weill dropped a hammer on my father. He played my father liked he used to let my father play others for Rocky. Weill says " Fight Ezzard Charles- you beat Charles, you get Rocky". My father was pissed, but understood the game. Norkus-Charles goes 10 Rds but it wasnt close. My father closed Ezzard's right eye but the wily Ezzard protected it from my fathers left hooks. So much for that. He still was pay day fodder for others though. Changed management taking on a former high ranked middleweight Marty Sampson as his new trainer, and he got him some nice pay with TV fights with Moore and Pastrano and others.

I watched my father give many interviews for TV, magazines and papers over the years. My father always stuck with the same story, ALWAYS.

Magazine: Charlie -you never got a shot versus Rocky, you ever feel bad about that ?

Charley Norkus: No, I dont look back on things like that. I made a pretty good living for my family, my wife Margie and my son, Charlie Jr to be comfortable on at the
time.

Magazine: If you did face Rocky, do you think you could beat him ?

Charley Norkus: Rocky was the toughest and hardest puncher I ever saw. I knew Rocky well. I don't know if I would have beat him, but I can tell you that it would have
a very intersesting fight.

He made those statements with conviction, but deep down, I think he wanted that shot, who wouldnt when you were that close.
My father told me privately that he felt that Rocky had trouble with left handed punchers. THat was one thing he and Weill were looking out for in his fight previews.
Rocky let his right hand dangle after a hard thrown punch-and if he missed with it, left him with no defense of lefts coming over the top of it. My father was counting on that. My father would also end with- " You had to hope Rocky missed you-if he didnt- you could of had a sledge hammer of a left, it didnt matter"

Rocky and Charley at "The Town and Country" niteclub in Brooklyn, NY 1961 The place was mobbed run but every big named entertainer played it.



I downloaded a few other Norkus fights on Youtube.com. Trying to get a few more up there too.

Charley,very informative. Tell me,after Marciano retired,where did your father stand with the promoters? I see he lost to Roy Harris and then later Harris got a shot at Patterson.I know Cus D'Amato was very careful with Floyd. I would think that you dad would have given Patterson a lot of problems.

Sorry for delay Roger, I was very busy the last few days. After Marciano announced his retirement in 1955, my father was not surprised at first. It was common practice by fighters then (and somewhat now) and all of sudden ,come out of retirement and fight. Especially being the Champ. He thought for sure that Rocky would do the same-but only take a breather for a few months. My father stayed in shape. Though his loss to Charles in 1955 knocked him down a few pegs in the top ten, he felt if he could fight his way back to Marciano if Rocky came back into the picture.
1956 was a down year for my father. But losing to Harris and Pastrano was not too shameful as both were much younger and quicker. He sandwiched a solid win over Joe Rowan in between.(posted on youtube) My father had changed trainers/mgrs after Ezz Charles. He now had a former top middlewt. contender Marty Sampson at the helm. Sampson had connections but my father's name was forged by his efforts and KO power in the ring.
In hind sight,and in a nutshell, promoters need entertainers. My father always gave the crowd their money's worth with only a few exceptions including his fight with Roland LaStarza. (My father rued that fight stating in the papers the next day " I's should have knocked LaStarza out, but Roland didnt want to get into it, but I take the blame for not being more aggressive".

Teddy Brenner stilled liked my father on TV. He was a big TV draw and the numbers he brought intio the arena on a televised night were very good. He had solid backing from the Irish dock workers here, the Police Dept on Long Island where he lived (Pt. Washington, NY) and numerous Marine Corps and servicemen who rembered him from the service days, besides a following of boxing fans who saw his televised bouts versus Powell and Nardico. The bottom line for the promoter was " MONEY". and my father was money in the bag. In 1957, my father had a sensational comeback year in defeating OBrien, Crowe Peele in his hometown New Orleans twice and Johnson. Little known Thurman "Crowe" Peele was a sensational fighter (former NCAA Champ from LSU) and was undefeated when my father was brought in to fight him. A carbon copy of The Charlie Powell & Nardico fights, my father went to Peele's hometown and put him on his ass in front of sold out throngs rooting for the hometown kid.

Madison Square Garden ate it up and my father found himself with fights Moore and McMurtry on TV. A repeat with Charlie Powell in San Diego, not televised . Losing those and any hope with Patterson as well. The 2nd Powell fight was truly a said story on the way the promoters worked. I have an article here I dont know I want to post it. With much due respect to a great fighter, I wont.

Powell had changed mgrs by 1958, Welsh was gone. Charlie was chomping at the bit to avenge the Norkus fight from 1954. There was no secret there at all and you can ask him about it. Every year it came into play by phone calls, but my father wanted to stay a certain course for Patterson.After his losses to Moore and MCMurtry in their hometowns and my father not having a shot at Patterson anymore, the Powell fight made sense. To draw every last drop of blood and coin in the ring, the promoters fell back onto what can sell. TV fights had brought large live audiences to a standstill now. Many people stated wrote about the demise of live gate boxing and face it, Powell still rising wanted that fight big. My father on the down turn now took any last sellable he can.

The facts : My father's mgr. hoping to get every thing he can stated that my father wanted $3,000 and two plane tickets for the San Diego fight. The fight not being televised didnt have the $5,000 guaranteefor each fighter, every dollar had to come out of the live gate. Hoping to promote this one by hyping the "The Revenge factor of the first go-round", San Diego was hopefully going to turn out large for hometown hero Powell. Powell's camp risked much for this. But a decent draw would make a few dollars. Dec 19th,1958, The draw was terrible. A gate of 2,822 saw a total pay of $9,000. The fight was a lackluster fight with Powell getting every round to erase his ring blot.
Writer Bob Ortman, Evening tribune wrote " ... the crowd started booing at the end of round one and continued through the seventh, until the cheers rang up for a pair of fights that broke out in the crowd that drew the attention away from the ring....". Each fighter got $1,500 and Powell handing over his money to Norkus for the guarantee. Powell actually "lost money" out of his pocket by having to pay for the two airlines tickets. But the record will show a 10 round dec. for Charlie's heart.

My father would fight only one more time Feb 4th a 10 rd dec. over S. Car. hometown hero Waban Thomas at Camp Lejeune. My father fought there as a tribute to his US Marine followers over the years.

My father was shot on Sept 2,1959 while tending bar in Times Square, NYC. Fighter and friend Paddy Flood was bouncer in this decent place that drew tourists and locals. Of course the occaisional riff-raff would meander in. At 10 pm, an obvious drunk came in the unguarded door when Paddy was picking up glasses in the back. The man harassed woman sitting nearby. Asked to leave, he made more of a nuisance. Paddy came over and physically threw the man out, all time, my father was behind the bar. At 2 am, he came back. Paddy and my father were preparing to close early as the crowd was down to just a few.
The man came in and my father close by went over to help him find the door. As my father drew near he pulled out a .38 and the first shot caught my father in the stomach as he turned. My father grabbed his hands and they wrestled. He managed a 2nd shot entering my father's inner thigh. My father managed to throw a right cross knocking out the his assailant. The police came right away and an ambulance soon followed. My father went through 4 hours surgery and the first bullet actually traveled around his waist line and exited his back. The doctor said he had strong abdominal muscles and the angle of him turning kept it from penatrating straight in. The 2nd more riskier shot ended up a 1/4 inch away from his femoral artery. Though my father lost quite a bit of blood, this removal was quite delicate but successful at St Lukes/Roosevelt Hosp 5 blocks away. The assailant was out on parole for just 6 months after spending 12 years in Sing Sing prison for murdering his wife. All sorts of parole viuolations and attempted murder charge sent this career criminal back for the rest of his life which ended in 1984.Interestingly, prison correction guards who were Charley Norkus boxing fans kept my father abreast of this guy's happenings through the years. When the man died in prison, the warden himself called my father to tell him. My father had worried that this guy might get out again and do harm to us.

The shooting had put a definite ending to any possible future fight.


My father was the bartender, not the bouncer:



My father's second and last trainer/mgr, Marty Sampson

Thanks Charley. Great story. I know you were kind of surprised when you found out how small the San Diego Coliseum was. They should have made the fight with Powell at the old San Diego Padres(minor league team) ball park. It held around 8 thousand. Archie Moore fought many times there. I'm sure your dad's fight with Powell would have sold out.

[dagosd2000]

Lane Field. San Diego. I believe the ball park was torn down in 1959. The home of the minor league Padres and the venue for many big fights,especially involving Archie Moore.

[dagosd2000]

In Need Of Repair


"I'll call the technician,"I said to my wife.
The cable box in the living room,I thought had a problem. My wife couldn't get the remote control to change the channels. I tried using the remote that I used for the TV in my bedroom to work on the TV in the living room,but without results. I called the company. They said they'd send someone out the next day in the afternoon.


The next afternoon the phone rang. There was a man with a Spanish accent on the other end. He introduced himself as Elmer the technician for the cable company. He said he would arrive in five minutes. I told my wife to take the dogs for a walk so there wouldn't be any disturbance.

When the cable technician arrived ,I told him of the problem with the TV.
"First I check the remote,"he said.
"I tried using the remote in my room on the TV out here,but it didn't work."
"Let me run a check,"he countered.
He took out an instrument from his work box and plugged it into the back of the cable box.
"Mi esposa es Mexicana,"I said as he was working on the cable box.
"Que parte?"
"Michoacan."
"I just come back from Michoacan,"he said.
I told him that my wife was going to Michoacan in February with our daughter.
"I was planning to go,but there are too many problems right now,"I said.
"Si muchos."
"Where in Michoacan did you go?"
He replied with the name of a town I can't remember.
"I don't know where that is,"I said.
"Oh it is very small. Maybe 500 people.It is by Morelia."
"My wife's hometown is Jiquilpan."
"Oh yes. That is by Chapala."
"It keeps getting worse."
"Where we went it is very bad. I drove on the free road not to pay the toll,but the cartel had the road blocked and was demanding money from everyone. I'm lucky they didn't take my truck."
"You drove down?"
"Yes.It was very expensive on the toll roads especially in Sinaloa."
"I told my wife when she goes down in February to sell the house,"I said.
"My wife's family is always asking us for money. They think that because I work in the U.S. that I am rich."
"I know what you mean. My wife's family thinks the same way."
"I told my wife that we should only stay for a few days and then move on."
"When we go down,"I said,"We stay for a month.It costs me more to go to Mexico where I have a house to stay in for free than to travel to Europe."
"My nephew always calls me up and wants me to help him to come to the U.S.,"he said.
"It's the same with me when I'm down there. A smuggler asks for 6 thousand dollars. It's not that easy anymore."
"It is very hard. The cartels.The police. The army. The government. There is nowhere to turn."
"I keep reading in the news that the name of the cartel in Michoacan is called 'Knights Templar.'I've never heard of that term."
"It is the 'Familia'",he said. "That is the name."
"That's what I've always heard."
"A Mexican can't pronounce 'Knights Templar,"he said smiling.
I laughed.
"Well I installed a new cable box. It is what the problem was,"he said putting his tools back into his work box.
"Thank you for coming out,"I said. "Would you like a coke?"I asked him.
"Sure Coca Cola is the Mexican's favorite drink,"he said with a wink.
"Coca Cola,but not Pepsi Cola,"I said.
"Yes,"he said. "I see that you understand."

[dagosd2000]

El Campesino

[CNorkusJr]

Lane Field. San Diego. I believe the ball park was torn down in 1959. The home of the minor league Padres and the venue for many big fights,especially involving Archie Moore.

Great aerial view. I think my dad would have liked that idea. He fought in many outdoor parks besides Yankee Stadium twice. He fought Pat McMurty in Cheney Field under the lights in Tacoma, Washington and early in his career there were a few spots in New Jersey as well. My father might be familiar with this stadium. He spent time in San Diego and LOVED it. I know you heard me rave about San Francisco and how my father loved San Fran at the 2012 HOF event. But also, in those same conversations I had with him, we hit on San Diego as well. " Absolutely Beautiful" he told me in referring to San Diego. He fought for the US Navy Olympics in 1948 there and hence, if this stadium was near the Naval Base, I'm sure he knew it. He didnt set up the second Powell fight, he let Powell's people do that. But my father told me also to get to San Diego one day- I know he took in the famed San Diego Zoo and other attractions in the 1950's there. I'll see if I have any old 35mm color slides he used to take on his " away" games. LOL.

You dont see too many outdoor fights by me anymore. Just to connect the new and shittier "Yankee Stadium" with the old history laden "Yankee Stadium" and its history with boxing, they held a fight there when it opened 2 years ago. Yuri Foreman headlined it. I didnt attend.

But as a youngster (13 or 14), my dad took me to friend, Bobby Cassidy's fights here on Long Island and NY City. One stop was a old demolition and hot rod track nearby our house in Freeport, LI. The Freeport Raceway held fight nites often in the summer. I remember nothing like it being outdoors with many and my dad getting introduced in the ring before the Main Event to huge ovations. Man o' man,great stuff. Finely, a boxing arena that cigar and cigarette smoke wasnt banked down to the ground by time the Main Event was on. Sunnyside Gardens, Eastern Pwy arena, Felt Forum and Westchester County Arena choked the hell out me as a kid. Maybe thats why I had no problem with becoming a fireman LOL. But alas, the raceway disappeared decades ago. I'm sure there were others near me, but my memory eludes me right now.

Fights Under The Lights Outdoors-Got to love it !

Thanks for photo Roger.!!

Norkus vs MCMurtry outdoors in Cheney Field, Tacoma Wash. McMurtry by 10 Rd Dec. My father had tough time handling him.
Fight was July 26, 1958 Att: 2,800 Total Gross: $12,800 Paper said the next day that McMurtry earned a shot with Johansson. I didnt look it up.
My father broke his left hand in 2nd round.

[dagosd2000]

Confidence Men

Sometimes one will wonder what a woman can see in a thug. Often it's considered a flaw in her character to be attracted to a gangster. Especially if she is beautiful,it is hard to put her together with a swarthy character .People couldn't believe when the cutesy Phyliss McGuire of the Arthur Godfrey show became the girlfriend of Mafia boss Sam Giancana. She was perceived as a wholesome All American girl,but seen in public with Mooney was bewildering.Sure Giancana spent a load of dough on her wining and dining,but she could of had that with a lesser evil.So why does something like that happen?

My observations have deduced that sometimes women like to be in the presence of the alpha male protector. They feel safe with a guy that acts before he thinks and packs a heater. A man ,who when he walks in a room,commands attention. Maybe these gals long for a daddy figure. Whatever it is, they like walking with danger. It turns them on.

For the wimpier of the male species,he can only ponder what it would be like if these women would gravitate to them. Wishful thinking."I'd be nice to them,"he laments. Nice maybe,but too soft. You'd bore them to death pal. But I'm talking about the "moll" type broad. I know a lot of guys out there that think if those women would only get to know them,they'd see the light. Reminds me of the male sea lions who don't have the muscle to take away the females from the dominant male of the herd.They just sit there frustrated flapping their flippers as the the dominant male has all the split tails to himself. But maybe it ain't so bad in the sea lion world. I can't tell an ugly one from the rest.



Frankie Carbo
.

[El Gallo]

Confidence Men

Sometimes one will wonder what a woman can see in a thug. Often it's considered a flaw in her character to be attracted to a gangster. Especially if she is beautiful,it is hard to put her together with a swarthy character .People couldn't believe when the cutesy Phyliss McGuire of the Arthur Godfrey show became the girlfriend of Mafia boss Sam Giancana. She was perceived as a wholesome All American girl,but seen in public with Mooney was bewildering.Sure Giancana spent a load of dough on her wining and dining,but she could of had that with a lesser evil.So why does something like that happen?

My observations have deduced that sometimes women like to be in the presence of the alpha male protector. They feel safe with a guy that acts before he thinks and packs a heater. A man ,who when he walks in a room,commands attention. Maybe these gals long for a daddy figure. Whatever it is, they like walking with danger. It turns them on.

For the wimpier of the male species,he can only ponder what it would be like if these women would gravitate to them. Wishful thinking."I'd be nice to them,"he laments. Nice maybe,but too soft. You'd bore them to death pal. But I'm talking about the "moll" type broad. I know a lot of guys out there that think if those women would only get to know them,they'd see the light. Reminds me of the male sea lions who don't have the muscle to take away the females from the dominant male of the herd.They just sit there frustrated flapping their flippers as the the dominant male has all the split tails to himself. But maybe it ain't so bad in the sea lion world. I can't tell an ugly one from the rest.



Frankie Carbo
.

Dan Hanley and I interviewed the late George Benton in 2007, when he was inducted into the WBHOF. We asked him about "Mr. Grey" Frankie Carbo, True to his old school roots & tradition, Benton chose his words carefully when speaking of the man who controlled his career and the world of boxing in general back in the day. The IBC, etc. etc. In those days, boxers were seen, not heard.

[CNorkusJr]

Same with Ike Williams-former Champ. My father never discussed any dealings with anyone and it played constantly on my mind. I asked several times about how the "system" worked. He gave 2 things only and I think I was lucky to get that.

Item 1: A line he said to me after I asked a few times... " You didnt have to play the game if you didnt want to. I didnt." Period.

Story he told me: The second Norkus-Curt Kennedy fight on local TV caused quite a stir. It was told in depth by former matchmaker Teddy Brenner in his book "Only The Ring Was Square" published in late 70's or early 80's. A whole chapter in which my father called Teddy up and gave him hell for the portrayel of my father in the book.

The story shortened by me . Curt Kennedy defeated my father on Feb 17th, 1950 in NYC. Kennedy was the favorite in that fight and won an easy decision in 8 rds.
The first fight was scheduled after my father was coming off of a 14-1 (10 Ko's) year in 1949. Kennedy was suppose to be a step up in competition and my father's first adventure on local TV. Kennedy prevailing with no uproar.

A rematch was scheduled for April 5th - a short month and a half later. On TV. Kennedy was again the 4-1 favorite going in. My father was thrilled at a chance to even the score and move up. My father knew nothing of what was happening in the crowd and boxing circles as the place filled up. According to Brenner, odds on money was changing hands fast and odds were changing drastically as the two boxers got in the ring for the Main Event. Half-way through the first round, my father hit Kennedy on the chin so hard, it took him several minutes to come around. Immediately Brenner suspected a fix was in, but denials by both camps and a half assed investigation turned up nothing mainly because my father had a knack for KO'ing his opponents in the first,second or third rounds at that time. You can look it up.

Now the book comes out and my dad was furious. He told me this... if a KO fight is fixed, only very few know about it. The fighter going down obviously, one of his cornermen know about it (in case it slips the fighters mind..then there's trouble ahead), and the mob. Thats it. The winning fighter and corner dont have to know about it. They dont want to know about it. That fighter is coming out to beat his opponent. It's not his fault that the fighter going down sticks his chin out too far. Its getting blasted anyway. Of course, some guys dont like getting blasted on the chin and they look awful trying to make it look like he lost. Sound familiar on any fights you heard of.

When asked about it in the investigation, ,my father said " I hit him so hard, any guy I would'a hit like that would'a been out for the count". People who were there heard and saw the shot with their own eyes including Brenner.As well as the TV crowd.
The reason why the mob didnt tell the winner in a case like this is easy. Just what happened. My father denies ALL. He wasnt in on it, and its not his fault that the guy stuck his chin out to get clobbered. Its the truth under oath. Plus, the mob dont have to pay-out any hush monies. He got what he was suppose to get from the gate and TV.

Now if things changed for different fighters, my father said he wasnt aware of it. But my father did relent- that bad influences abounded outside gyms. Carbo wasnt allowed in gyms. But his boy Blinky Palermo was, as a licensed manager. Hence the connection there. But it was Norris, who rubbered stamped everything and got away with it. Thats what being rich does for ya. By the way, Brenner said very little back to my father, except that it made for a great story.

My dad introdced me to Ike Williams years ago. A very natty dresser. Big for a light-wt I thought. WE didnt discuss boxing-which was with many boxers. I met with my father.

My dad and Ike Williams (I took picture)

[El Gallo]

[quote="CNorkusJr"]Same with Ike Williams-former Champ. My father never discussed any dealings with anyone and it played constantly on my mind. I asked several times about how the "system" worked. He gave 2 things only and I think I was lucky to get that.

Item 1: A line he said to me after I asked a few times... " You didnt have to play the game if you didnt want to. I didnt." Period.

Story he told me: The second Norkus-Curt Kennedy fight on local TV caused quite a stir. It was told in depth by former matchmaker Teddy Brenner in his book "Only The Ring Was Square" published in late 70's or early 80's. A whole chapter in which my father called Teddy up and gave him hell for the portrayel of my father in the book.

The story shortened by me . Curt Kennedy defeated my father on Feb 17th, 1950 in NYC. Kennedy was the favorite in that fight and won an easy decision in 8 rds.
The first fight was scheduled after my father was coming off of a 14-1 (10 Ko's) year in 1949. Kennedy was suppose to be a step up in competition and my father's first adventure on local TV. Kennedy prevailing with no uproar.

A rematch was scheduled for April 5th - a short month and a half later. On TV. Kennedy was again the 4-1 favorite going in. My father was thrilled at a chance to even the score and move up. My father knew nothing of what was happening in the crowd and boxing circles as the place filled up. According to Brenner, odds on money was changing hands fast and odds were changing drastically as the two boxers got in the ring for the Main Event. Half-way through the first round, my father hit Kennedy on the chin so hard, it took him several minutes to come around. Immediately Brenner suspected a fix was in, but denials by both camps and a half assed investigation turned up nothing mainly because my father had a knack for KO'ing his opponents in the first,second or third rounds at that time. You can look it up.

Now the book comes out and my dad was furious. He told me this... if a KO fight is fixed, only very few know about it. The fighter going down obviously, one of his cornermen know about it (in case it slips the fighters mind..then there's trouble ahead), and the mob. Thats it. The winning fighter and corner dont have to know about it. They dont want to know about it. That fighter is coming out to beat his opponent. It's not his fault that the fighter going down sticks his chin out too far. Its getting blasted anyway. Of course, some guys dont like getting blasted on the chin and they look awful trying to make it look like he lost. Sound familiar on any fights you heard of.

When asked about it in the investigation, ,my father said " I hit him so hard, any guy I would'a hit like that would'a been out for the count". People who were there heard and saw the shot with their own eyes including Brenner.As well as the TV crowd.
The reason why the mob didnt tell the winner in a case like this is easy. Just what happened. My father denies ALL. He wasnt in on it, and its not his fault that the guy stuck his chin out to get clobbered. Its the truth under oath. Plus, the mob dont have to pay-out any hush monies. He got what he was suppose to get from the gate and TV.

Now if things changed for different fighters, my father said he wasnt aware of it. But my father did relent- that bad influences abounded outside gyms. Carbo wasnt allowed in gyms. But his boy Blinky Palermo was, as a licensed manager. Hence the connection there. But it was Norris, who rubbered stamped everything and got away with it. Thats what being rich does for ya. By the way, Brenner said very little back to my father, except that it made for a great story.

My dad introdced me to Ike Williams years ago. A very natty dresser. Big for a light-wt I thought. WE didnt discuss boxing-which was with many boxers. I met with my father.

My dad and Ike Williams (I took picture)

[/quo

Ike Williams is one of my all-time favorites!

[dagosd2000]

Two Hundred Pesos

I used to work with Cobian at the high school where I was at.I was apart from the rest of the school in a room where they put kids "at risk".Kids that were behind in credits because they had failed a bunch of courses or they were in Juvenile Hall. I had a lot of girls that were pregnant or were already mothers.Cobian was a custodian when I arrived there. Just before I left to go on to another school,he was promoted to head custodian.

Cobian was also a fight referee. He'd work in a Tijuana and had license in California.After retiring from teaching,I lost contact with him until I started going to fights again in San Diego. I've been following Tiger Small's son,Prince, as he's been honing his trade fighting prelims at the banquet rooms of the local hotels.About a month ago I bumped into Cobian .He was one of the refs on the card. After finding out how things were going at the school ,I asked him how the refereeing was coming along.
"Last week I worked at Las Pulgas."
"How was it?"
"You know how it is down there. The promoter wanted everything. I got paid 200 pesos."
"That's less than 20 bucks."
"What could I do? I took it,but I won't go back."
Cobian took out his IPhone and showed me a picture of a house.
"This is where I live in TJ,I bought this house for my wife and myself,"he said.
Cobian then scrolled down face of the phone.
"Here is a fountain I put in,"he said smiling."A Mexican has to have a fountain."
He scrolled some more.
"And here is my Harley."
"Nice bike."
"I'll take it downtown,but not up the hill. I don't want to lose it."
"Yeah,things are less safe on that side of town."
Cobain sat with me for awhile before the start of the first bout. He liked to talk about my art that I would bring to school and show the kids.
"You still paint Pancho Villa?"he asked.
"Sometimes. When I want to paint someone I like,he's someone I'll paint."
"Remember when you would tell me about him?"
"The government for a long time didn't write about him much. Only that he was an outlaw."
"But in Mexico he's a legend. The people knew he was for them."
"They need someone now who's on their side,"I said.
"Well I see the fighters are coming into the ring,"said Cobian."I'll talk to you when the fights are over."
"I have to leave after the prelims,"I said."If I don't see you,I'll probably run into you at another fight.
"Probably,"said Cobian."But don't look for me refereeing any fights in Tijuana."



"Pancho"Villa

[Chuck1052]

While looking at the U.S. Census records, I found that one Charles Norkus, 11-years-old, was living with his widowed mother, Clara, and three sisters in a rented home located at 8760 254th Street in Queens, New York. It appears that his mother was not employed during 1939, but his 19-year-old sister, Dorothy, earned a total of $320. working in a clerical position for thirty weeks at the N.Y.A. during the same year. The monthly rent for the home was $30.

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

Respect...Not Even A Little Bit

The Mobsters who got their fingers into the world of prize fighting looked at fighters as just somebodies to make a buck on.If the guy they bet on won,everything was jake. It was never anything personal. It didn't matter if they were fond of a certain fighter(which wasn't often). It was all business.Often ,on the side, a pug would work for the Mob to shake someone down or in some cases "paint a house." Wiseguys never made a fighter a rich man yet alone school him on how to protect his earnings. A fighter like Johnny Saxton,who was the welterweight champ,would get stiffed by his manager Blinky Palermo who would go to prison in the end.

I remember when I was a kid going over to visit the Giancana family with my parents. At the time I didn't know what Sam Giancana did for a living and that my dad took orders from him. One time I recall listening to my father and Giancana and some other Outfit guys talk about fighters in the Giancana living room. Ray Robinson was considered a "dumb moolie".Robinson may have been the greatest pound for pound fighter of all time,but to those guys he was thought of as a body just to make money with. Those grease balls were even taking shots at Marciano. Oh,they thought Rocky was just swell,but I remember them making fun of his wife.When Marciano knocked out Joe Louis,it was fodder for a lot of racist jokes about Joe.

The best thing that ever happened to my father was when he got in trouble in Chicago. The Outfit had enough juice to keep him from going to prison,but it forced my father(with a big push from my mother) to come out to California. My father lost his cockiness. His views on his fellow man became more compassionate. He may have been a fish out of water out here and struggled financially,but he evolved into being less of a jerk. Looking back,all his old pals wound up getting whacked or going to jail.

It comes around to bite you in the ass eventually. If my dad was still alive,he tell you all about it.



Joe Louis

[dagosd2000]

Good Government Bull S*&T

"So what's new Rog?"asked Ed the bartender.
I was taking my afternoon stroll and thought I'd drop into Champs Lounge.
"Not too much. I see Pacquiao is going to fight Bradley again."
"I'm sure not going to hold my breath for that one.Want something to drink?"
"Just a club soda."
Ed opened a bottle of club soda and put it in front of me.
"Want a glass?"
"No thanks.
I watched Ed turn on the TV.The Torrey Pines tournament was going on.I didn't recognize any of the names on the leader board.
"You know I was watching that movie Raging Bull the other night,"I said. "When LaMotta handed Robinson his first loss,they had a rematch three weeks later."
"Imagine the greatest fighter of all time fighting a rematch in three weeks."
"Now the best fighters don't even fight three times a year."
"You want to watch something else?"
"No."
"I see Obama is going to give a State Of The Union Address tonight,"said the bartender.
"I get tired of politicians lying all the time."
"You're not alone."
"I heard after that Congress is going to take a recess."
"You'd think they'd get things done that are important."
"They sure spent a lot of time grilling those baseball players about steroids."
"What a waste of the taxpayers' money,"said Ed.
"Well they knew they could make those athletes sweat ."
"Guys like Cheney and Rumsfeld might appear weak,but they know how to hold up against Congressmen."
"That's why they went after those jocks. They knew they weren't that tough in an investigation."
"Come to think of it,it was kind of funny to see Mark McGwire shit in his pants,"laughed Ed.



Barak Obama

[El Gallo]

The West Coast Boxing Hall of Fame will hold an encore screening of "El Boxeo" in the near future at Vitelo's in Studio City.
A chance for those who missed the premiere screening to view the film with many of the legends that are featured, at one of the Southland's legendary Italian restaurants. Time & date will be announced soon.

-Rick Farris

[dagosd2000]

The Champion Contender

"I was watching the news the other night and they had something on the Ukraine. I think I saw Klitschko. I thought he was still champion,"said Ed the bartender as he was changing the channel on the TV behind the bar.
"His brother Vladimir is still the champ. You saw Vitali,"I said stirring my club soda with a swizzle stick.
"So what's all the squawk about?"
"Since the Ukraine broke away from the Soviet Union,Russia wants to get their hands back in their again."
"I didn't know the Ukraine was a part of Russia."
"When Russia fell from Communism,a lot of countries broke off from Russia."
"So what's the beef?"
"The Ukraine wants to become a part of the European Union,but their president wants to make a deal with Russia."
"What deal?"
"Russia wants to lend them money."
"So?"
"The Ukrainian people don't want to be in debt to Russia."
"So Klitschko is on what side?"
"The people's side."
Ed kept flipping the remote.
"I see they have the World's Strongest Man Competition on,"said Ed. "You want to watch that?"
"Why not? Better performance through chemistry."

[dagosd2000]

Diego Rivera

[CNorkusJr]

While looking at the U.S. Census records, I found that one Charles Norkus, 11-years-old, was living with his widowed mother, Clara, and three sisters in a rented home located at 8760 254th Street in Queens, New York. It appears that his mother was not employed during 1939, but his 19-year-old sister, Dorothy, earned a total of $320. working in a clerical position for thirty weeks at the N.Y.A. during the same year. The monthly rent for the home was $30.

- Chuck Johnston

Your right Chuck-thats my dads family. My grandmother was marrired twice and was widowed in 1931, when Charles I (her 2nd husband) died with rheumatic fever (bad valve) not detected until the day he died in 1931-my dad was 2 years old. My Aunt Dorothy was actually a half-sister to my dad from my grandmother's first husband, who skiddadled when Dorothy was born,leaving my grandmother in the lurch. I dont know how Charles I met my grandmother, but they had 2 girls and my dad after that before he died suddenly. He was a jack of all trades, but mostly a taxi driver in Manhattan (who also ran booze in 1928 for the mob in his taxi).

Aunt Dorothy and Aunt Beverly (both deceased now were lifetime career girls rising up the ranks when there was glass ceilings for women. Both died very well off).Dorothy eventually married a Navy Man and is buried in Pinelawn National Cemetary. The youngest, Aunt Olive,now 82 and lives on Long Island with one of her daughters' and family about 30 minutes from me. She is in very good health and has vivid memories.
Most of the deceased Norkus's back from the 1920's are buried in Brooklyn, while my mom & dad and grandmother and Beverly are buried near me here. I have a plot right next to them.

By the way, the home on 254 St in Bellrose, Queens still stands. My father grew up there, fought amateurs in NYC, joined the US Marines and became a Pro fighter -all the time his mother lived in the house. The children all chipped in eventually and bought the house outright by the 1950's. I remember going there many times as a youngster. Eventually it was sold and Grandma and Beverly lived in a 2 Bdroom apt nearby since the 70's till their demise. They all have longevity-80's and 90's, but not my dad. 68 yrs old-gall bladder to pancreas cancer in 1996.
When my father boxed on TV-every Queens Boro bar and tavern with a TV was packed till the gills, with many drinking outside looking in the windows at a 21 inch screen for results. My father's mother Clara was always with the crowd and was treated like a VIP in those days. She had a stool up front next to the TV at the Bellrose Tavern.

Brooklyn's Holy Cross Cemetary- My father's father is Charles- Vincent was my father's grandfather, from Saluilia, Poland by way of Germany. Marie is Charles I sister-she is deceased in 1991-I need to have her year etched in.





My mother and father in Pinelawn Memorial Park, Farmingdale, Long Island (Pinelawn National Cemetary next door is filled unless you get cremated).If you are a veteran and wish a serviceman's grave- Calverton National Cemetary is way out on Long Island about an hour and half from me. My father said to my mother just before he died- "Bury me out there Marge" My mother said "If you think I am driving an 1 1/2 hours to visit your ass on Holidays and such -your nuts". He had a full service man funeral anyway- The US Marine Corps League gave him a 21 gun salute followed by a lone bagpiper from the FDNY Emerald Society Band playing after.