The Best White Heavyweight of All Time

[dempseyfire]

Sullivan KO 8 Norkus

Brennan UD Ruhlin

Coffey KO5 Mildenburger

DeJohn TKO 2 Saverese

Cooney KO 3 Grimsley

Matthews UD Levinsky

Neusel UD Valentino

Loughran SD O'Brian

Gibbons UD Choynski

Rosenbloom UD Maloney

[scartissue]

John L. Sullivan vs. Charley Norkus

Gus Ruhlin vs. Bill Brennan

Jim Coffey vs. Karl Mildenberger

Mike DeJohn vs. Lou Savarese

Crawford Grimsley vs. Gerry Cooney

Kingfish Levinsky vs. Harry 'Kid' Matthews

Walter Nuesel vs. Pat Valentino

Tommy Loughran vs. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien

Joe Choynski vs. Tommy Gibbons

Maxie Rosenbloom vs. Jimmy Maloney

[The Great John L]

John L. Sullivan KO Charley Norkus
Bill Brennan KO Gus Ruhlin
Jim Coffey Dec Karl Mildenberger
Mike DeJohn KO Lou Savarese
Gerry Cooney KO Crawford Grimsley
Kingfish Levinsky Dec Harry 'Kid' Matthews
Walter Nuesel Dec Pat Valentino
Tommy Loughran Dec Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
Joe Choynski Dec Tommy Gibbons
Maxie Rosenbloom Dec Jimmy Maloney

[pbchron]

OSCAR BONAVENA, like a huge number of Argentinians is of Italian heritage. Is he not as white as Marciano, Quarry, DeJohn, LaStarza, Savarese, etc. ?

[Ambling Alp II]

Sullivan KO2 Norkus
Ruhlin Dec Brennan
Mildenberger Dec Coffey
DeJohn KO 10 Savarese
Cooney KO 1 Grimsley
Levinsky Dec Mathews
Nuesel Dec Valentino
Loughran Dec O'Brien
Gibbons Dec Choynski
Rosenbloom Dec Maloney

[HomicideHenry]

5-1 Sullivan over Norkus

5-1 Brennan over Ruhlin

4-1 Coffey over Mildenberger (Saad forgot a vote on this)

5-1 DeJohn over Savarese

6-0 Cooney over Grimsley

4-2 Levinsky over Matthews

6-0 Neusel over Valentino

5-1 Loughran over O'Brien

4-2 Gibbons over Choynski

6-0 Rosenbloom over Maloney

(just got your votes in Alp lol, so dont worry)

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2.5 hours left to vote, get em in people!

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OSCAR BONAVENA, like a huge number of Argentinians is of Italian heritage. Is he not as white as Marciano, Quarry, DeJohn, LaStarza, Savarese, etc. ?

The only time I heard Bonavena be referred to anything Italian was when he was called the "Spaghetti Man" while in training for Muhammad Ali and allegedly ate tons of pasta (carbs) to have the energy to match Ali's great conditioning. Outside of that, I'm sticking to my guns, Bonavena was more latino than white.

[Bodyshot3]

@HomicideHenry...a stoic, but ultimately, deeply-flawed classification when it comes to Bonavena. I've held off on discussing ethnicity in ths thread because it can get toxic and circular.

But Bonavena, like a great deal of Argentine people will always classify themselves as of being of European ancestry. The majority of Argentine people hail from Galicia in Northern Spain, Italy, Germany and also Wales and Ireland. I would certainly not want to be the guy to step back in time and tell Bonavena that he was a Latino.

Argentinia, like its neighbour Brazil, is a melting-pot; for example some of their best fighters are actually of Arabic heritage (Oscar Navarez and Jorge Ahumada for example) and Carlos Menem (a former president) is of Middle Eastern descent.

But whilst all these people live in a Latin country; each person is fiercly proud of their culture, language and heritage.

[pbchron]

Italians are the "TRUE and ORIGINAL LATINS."
My mother was Italian and a some of her family settled in the U.S, some of their relatives went to Argentina and some even went to Brazil. Are we, the ones that came to the U.S., the only white ones.
Nicolino Locche, Eduardo Lausse (La Usse), Vittorio Compollo, Firpo, etc.
Brazil has 25 million Italians (wikipedia), Wikipedia also states that it is estimated that 60 percent of the population in Argentina has Italian blood.
Arturo Gatti, Joe Mesi, Paul Malignaggi etc. all had darker complexions than Oscar DeLaHoya, Johnny Tapia,etc. so what does this "white" category really mean ?

Put into your search engine: "Argentine people of Italian descent." Under "B" is OSCAR BONAVENA.

[HomicideHenry]

Voting time is up... so therefore Sullivan, Brennan, Coffey, DeJohn, Cooney, Levinsky, Neusel, Loughran, Rosenbloom advance into the tournament....

And gentlemen, I am not going to argue the issue of Bonavena any more. He was born, raised, in Latin America. His first language was Spanish. He had latin blood also in his veins. He never identified himself as Italian in his lifetime that I am aware of, and that's the extent of this conversation. He was an Argentinian first and foremost, and that's that.

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Thus far, in the tournament findings, rounds one through four, we discover that the majority of the current heavyweights (of the passed thirty-forty years) have been essentially eliminated by even heavyweights of the turn of the 20th century--- maybe the match ups havent been 'tough' in some instances, however it is amusing to see how the majority of people see "white heavyweights" of the 2000's, 1990's, 1980's, 1970's, in comparison with their 1880's, 1890's, 1900's, etc. counter parts.

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Fifth Round of The Best White Heavyweight of All Time Tournament:

Tyson Fury vs. Ray Impeltierre

Frank Slavin vs. Scott Frank

Tony Galento vs. Billy Conn

Max Baer vs. Pat McMurty

Max Schmeling vs. Buddy Baer

Rex Layne vs. Charlie Polite

Ibragimov vs. Lou Nova

Gene Tunney vs. Willie Meehan

Vladimir Klitschko vs. Tommy Farr

Jerry Quarry vs. Sergei Liakovich

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This week enters in some of Joe Louis's best "white" opponents in title defenses; with no disrespect to some such as Johnny Paycheck, they will not be included into the all-time tournament; just the ones who happened to go more than three-four rounds with Louis or presented Louis with problems in the ring rather than be cannon fodder types.

And, voting is open for 24 hours, so have at it gentlemen!

[HomicideHenry]

Fifth Round of The Best White Heavyweight of All Time Tournament:

Tyson Fury vs. Ray Impeltierre

Frank Slavin vs. Scott Frank

Tony Galento vs. Billy Conn (a bloody battle if there ever was one)

Max Baer vs. Pat McMurty

Max Schmeling vs. Buddy Baer (very topsy turvy fight for a few rounds)

Rex Layne vs. Charlie POWELL (not Polite, sorry)

Ibragimov vs. Lou Nova

Gene Tunney vs. Willie Meehan (DRAW; imho)

Vladimir Klitschko vs. Tommy Farr (long, dull, tough fight, Klitschko decision)

Jerry Quarry vs. Sergei Liakovich (KO 2nd; Quarry about takes his damn head off)

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Fury KO4
Slavin UD
Conn UD
Baer KO5
Schmeling UD
Layne KO6
Ibragimov UD
Tunney UD
Wlad UD- Farr could beat Vitali
Quarry KO7

[scartissue]

Guys, before we go any further. Charlie Polite is a black man. Saw him fight twice. Against Jose Luis Garcia and he was one of the Toronto 5 in the exhibition with George Foreman.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Guys, before we go any further. Charlie Polite is a black man. Saw him fight twice. Against Jose Luis Garcia and he was one of the Toronto 5 in the exhibition with George Foreman.

I was going to post that when I made my picks.

[pbchron]

NEVER let "facts" alter your prejudices and parameters about ethnicity and race.

[dempseyfire]

This is funny . . I've often called Fury a modern-day version of Impeltierre. Ray's record is not impressive but when you look closely all his losses were to elite guys. Until Fury shows me he has something other than glass in his jaw give me

Impeltierre TKO 5 Fury

Slavin UD Frank

Conn UD Galento

Baer KO 4 McMurty

Schmeling TKO 11 Baer

Yes, Polite was black.

Nova UD Ibragimov

Tunney UD Meehan

Klitschko UD Farr (this pains me, but Farr style-wise is just in the wrong fight)

Quarry TKO 8 Liakovich

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Klitschko UD Farr (this pains me, but Farr style-wise is just in the wrong fight)

I feel you, when I saw the V I was ready to pick Farr over Vitali, but Wlad's jab and grab is too much for a smaller boxer like Tommy. Vitali would actually go after him and give him the opportunities to pick him apart with counters. Wlad would treat him like George Foreman.

[The Great John L]

Ray Impeltierre KO Tyson Fury
Frank Slavin Dec Scott Frank
Billy Conn Dec Tony Galento
Max Baer KO Pat McMurty
Max Schmeling KO Buddy Baer
Rex Layne walkover
Lou Nova Dec Ibragimov
Gene Tunney Dec Willie Meehan
Vladimir Klitschko Dec Tommy Farr
Jerry Quarry KO Sergei Liakovich

[Ambling Alp II]

Impeltierre KO Fury
Slavin Dec Frank
Conn Dec Galento
M. Baer KO McMurtry
Schmeling Dec B. Baer
Layne by walkover
Nova KO Ibragimov
Tunney Dec Meehan
W. Klitschko Dec Farr
Quarry KO Liakovich

[scartissue]

Fifth Round of The Best White Heavyweight of All Time Tournament:

Tyson Fury vs. Ray Impeltierre
Frank Slavin vs. Scott Frank

Tony Galento vs. Billy Conn
Max Baer vs. Pat McMurty

Max Schmeling vs. Buddy Baer

Rex Layne (walkover)
Ibragimov vs. Lou Nova
Gene Tunney vs. Willie Meehan

Vladimir Klitschko vs. Tommy Farr

Jerry Quarry vs. Sergei Liakovich

[HomicideHenry]

Guys, before we go any further. Charlie Polite is a black man. Saw him fight twice. Against Jose Luis Garcia and he was one of the Toronto 5 in the exhibition with George Foreman.

Eff me I meant CHARLIE POWELL, the football player turn boxer, who fought Ali. Sorry about that.

[HomicideHenry]

As it stands, we have...

4-2 Impeltierre vs. Fury

6-0 Slavin vs. Frank

6-0 Conn vs. Galento

6-0 Baer vs. McMurty

6-0 Schmeling vs. B. Baer

5-1 Nova vs. Ibragimov

5-1 Tunney vs. Meehan (I had it a draw)

6-0 W. Klitschko vs. Farr

6-0 Quarry vs. Liakovich

****************************************************************************

Excuse me for the mistake, CHARLIE POWELL vs. REX LAYNE will be added into the next round matches; dunno why I had Charlie Polite in mind when I wrote that.

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The Sixth Round of The Best White Heavyweight of All Time Tournament:

CHARLIE POWELL vs. REX LAYNE

RICHARD DUNNE vs. MARIUSZ WACH

AL KAUFMAN vs. WILLIE PASTRANO

BOONE KIRKMAN vs. KID MCCOY

FRANK MORAN vs. GEORGE CHUVALO

DUANE BOBICK vs. ALEXANDER POVETKIN

ANDREW GOLOTA vs. ART LASKY

JACK ROOT vs. BRIAN LONDON

JAKE KILRAIN vs. RANDALL TEX COBB

ZELJKO MAVROVIC vs. GERRY COONEY

BUDDY KNOX vs. HENRY COOPER

KINGFISH LEVINSKY vs. BILL BRENNAN

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Layne KO5
Wach KO4
Pastrano UD
McCoy UD
Chuvalo KO8
Povetkin(and he sucks) KO4
Golota UD
Root SD
Cobb UD
Mavrovic KO8
Cooper UD
Brennan KO5

[dempseyfire]

Umm . . .Powell was also black.

Dunn UD Wach (I don't see Wach as any better than Tiger Williams)

Pastrano SD Kaufman

McCoy TKO 8 Kirkman

Chuvalo UD Moran

Povetkin UD Bobick

Lasky WDQ Golota

London UD Root (Root was really a big middleweight; London just too strong)

Kilrain UD Cobb

Cooney UD Mavoric

Cooper UD Knox

Brennan TKO 8 Levinsky

[Ambling Alp II]

I had Pm'd him about Powell; hoped to catch him before people started voting.

Really don't understand this tournament. Some guys have already won a match and are scheduled again already while others have not had a match yet. Cooney, Cobb, Brennan,Levinsky and Kilrain already won and are scheduled again already. There may be others.

Meanwhile Marciano, Jeffries, Dempsey, and probably some others have not had any yet.

[scartissue]

The Sixth Round of The Best White Heavyweight of All Time Tournament:

Another walkover vs. REX LAYNE

RICHARD DUNNE vs. MARIUSZ WACH

AL KAUFMAN vs. WILLIE PASTRANO

BOONE KIRKMAN vs. KID MCCOY

FRANK MORAN vs. GEORGE CHUVALO

DUANE BOBICK vs. ALEXANDER POVETKIN

ANDREW GOLOTA vs. ART LASKY

JACK ROOT vs. BRIAN LONDON

JAKE KILRAIN vs. RANDALL TEX COBB

ZELJKO MAVROVIC vs. GERRY COONEY

BUDDY KNOX vs. HENRY COOPER

KINGFISH LEVINSKY vs. BILL BRENNAN