Jack Johnson's legacy?

[scallum]

boxing
ATG10 at heavy weights.

personal
ATG5 at afro americans.

unbelievable personality. incredibly brave.
and apparently very humorous.

+1

[SaadOffTheDeck]

boxing
ATG10 at heavy weights.

personal
ATG5 at afro americans.

unbelievable personality. incredibly brave.
and apparently very humorous.

Agreed on the boxing, totally disagree on the man. While he endured stuff that I could never imagine, he didn't do his race any favors at all. If anything, he set African Americans back at the time.

[HomicideHenry]

boxing
ATG10 at heavy weights.

personal
ATG5 at afro americans.

unbelievable personality. incredibly brave.
and apparently very humorous.

Agreed on the boxing, totally disagree on the man. While he endured stuff that I could never imagine, he didn't do his race any favors at all. If anything, he set African Americans back at the time.

Finally me and Saad agree on something.

[scallum]

boxing
ATG10 at heavy weights.

personal
ATG5 at afro americans.

unbelievable personality. incredibly brave.
and apparently very humorous.

Agreed on the boxing, totally disagree on the man. While he endured stuff that I could never imagine, he didn't do his race any favors at all. If anything, he set African Americans back at the time.

Have to strongly disagree. Probably wasn't his intentions but his victories gave an severely oppressed peoples hope.Especially the Victory over Jefferies.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

boxing
ATG10 at heavy weights.

personal
ATG5 at afro americans.

unbelievable personality. incredibly brave.
and apparently very humorous.

Agreed on the boxing, totally disagree on the man. While he endured stuff that I could never imagine, he didn't do his race any favors at all. If anything, he set African Americans back at the time.

Have to strongly disagree. Probably wasn't his intentions but his victories gave an severely oppressed peoples hope.Especially the Victory over Jefferies.

He also turned his back against all of his contemporary fighters and beat women like they were his opponents in the ring. While I appreciate the brazen disregard for racism, he didn't open any doors for other black fighters, he closed them. Joe Louis on the other hand, was as classy an individual as has ever been born.

[scallum]

by far the most important accomplishment of any African American at that time no doubt. Blacks held jubilant parades across the country.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

by far the most important accomplishment of any African American at that time no doubt. Blacks held jubilant parades across the country.

I find it hard to believe that there weren't greater things going on outside of sports. Being the Heavyweight champ is a big deal, that doesn't make him a saint. We are all sinners, but he was a chronic woman beater. Not grabbing the arm, slugging the dogshit out of them. He brutalized the one girl so bad she killed herself.

While there were parades of joy, none of the other black fighters got a shot at his title and no fathers of any woman he dated were smiling.

[The Great John L]

by far the most important accomplishment of any African American at that time no doubt. Blacks held jubilant parades across the country.

I find it hard to believe that there weren't greater things going on outside of sports. Being the Heavyweight champ is a big deal, that doesn't make him a saint. We are all sinners, but he was a chronic woman beater. Not grabbing the arm, slugging the dogshit out of them. He brutalized the one girl so bad she killed herself.

While there were parades of joy, none of the other black fighters got a shot at his title and no fathers of any woman he dated were smiling.

An African-American named Latimer(sp) invented the carbon filament while working for Edison; and as I'm sure we all know the light bulb really didn't work well with other types of filaments. As much as I love boxing, I'm sure there are other contributions as well that surpass Johnsons beating up white guys in a ring.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I'd say so. There had to be some people doing the leading as 5 million or so fled the South.

[The Great John L]

I'd say so. There had to be some people doing the leading as 5 million or so fled the South.

Booker T Washington and Frederick Douglas come to mind as great leaders and I'm sure that most people have heard of GW Carver the inventor of peanut butter and many other agriculture related products. I'd go with Latimer myself but I'm not well versed in the accomplishments of Washington and Douglas, although I'm sure they were both more instrumental in African American progress than Johnson..

[Ezzard]

Washington achieved an awful lot but he crushed any other black political figures he thought might prove more popular than himself. He wanted to be the only voice. Interesting man.

[The Great John L]

Washington achieved an awful lot but he crushed any other black political figures he thought might prove more popular than himself. He wanted to be the only voice. Interesting man.

That sounds like most politicians.

[Chuck1052]

I am not saying that being the first black world heavyweight champion comes close to what Frederick Douglass, George Washington Carver or Booker T. Washington did for their fellow man, but Jack Johnson appears to have been far better known than any of the mentioned individuals.

- Chuck Johnston

[The Great John L]

I am not saying that being the first black world heavyweight champion comes close to what Frederick Douglass, George Washington Carver or Booker T. Washington did for their fellow man, but Jack Johnson appears to have been far better known than any of the mentioned individuals.

- Chuck Johnston

Surely among whites, but I'm not sure that would be true among the African American population of the time.

[scallum]

I am not saying that being the first black world heavyweight champion comes close to what Frederick Douglass, George Washington Carver or Booker T. Washington did for their fellow man, but Jack Johnson appears to have been far better known than any of the mentioned individuals.

- Chuck Johnston

Surely among whites, but I'm not sure that would be true among the African American population of the time.

The First Black Heavyweight Champion of the World was Monumental. Look at the Reaction of Blacks having Jubilant Parades , and Others having fatal race riots. I doubt Douglas or Washington got these type of reactions for thier achievements.

[The Great John L]

I am not saying that being the first black world heavyweight champion comes close to what Frederick Douglass, George Washington Carver or Booker T. Washington did for their fellow man, but Jack Johnson appears to have been far better known than any of the mentioned individuals.

- Chuck Johnston

Surely among whites, but I'm not sure that would be true among the African American population of the time.

The First Black Heavyweight Champion of the World was Monumental. Look at the Reaction of Blacks having Jubilant Parades , and Others having fatal race riots. I doubt Douglas or Washington got these type of reactions for thier achievements.

Super Bowls also cause great celebration, but the statement made was that Johnson winning the title was the most important accomplishment and I don't think crowds celebrating a sporting event has anything to do with an events importance. It might mean more people are aware of it, but what does that have to do with the importance of an achievement.

If you want to say his achievement was the most celebrated event I don’t think anyone would have argued your point. We’re just questioning the importance of the event.

[scallum]

It was important in uplifting the oppressed spirits of an entire peoples. Given people confidence that they are just as capable as others.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

It was important in uplifting the oppressed spirits of an entire peoples. Given people confidence that they are just as capable as others.

George Dixon was a world champion before Jack. Where do you stand on his chronic brutalizing of women?

[HomicideHenry]

It was important in uplifting the oppressed spirits of an entire peoples. Given people confidence that they are just as capable as others.

George Dixon was a world champion before Jack. Where do you stand on his chronic brutalizing of women?

People also tend to forget that colored boxers Bill Richmond and Tom Mulineaux were nearly 150 years before Johnson and they were class acts, and never incited any sort of riots or misgivings of having black men fight for (then) the biggest crown in sports which at that time was the British Heavyweight crown (both men fought Tom Cribb, I believe).

Dixon, and others were also far more reserved and didn't add much controversy--- which is ironic because Dixon, if I am not mistaken, had a white wife. The difference, however, between those men and Johnson wasn't because of the heavyweight championship meaning so much more, but it was because of Johnson's character and makeup as a man, rather than as an athlete. Long before he even won the title, people were parading around him as being next in line--- hoping he'd get a shot at Jeffries, and people rooted for him when he chased down Burns across the pond---- but they found out quickly after winning the title, the essence of the man. First, he broke an agreement with the British boxing boards because he didnt give Sam Langford a shot at the title as promised--- and it was the British board that put up some of the funds for the Burns/Johnson fight. Second, his arrogance started to really shine through and while he always did taunt, smile, etc. he upped the ante and pushed farther than ever before. Third, though it was known he had been with white women, he made it into a sick game--- it seemed almost every other week he was with someone new, and he mistreated the women, etc. Fourth, he felt he was above the law and above boxing--- as he refused certain challengers (who were black), and of course he evaded the federal government and only when he lost the title did he give in and come back, because he knew then that he would never again be anything because he burned too many bridges as champion.

Sure we can buy into the myths/stories (most started by Johnson himself) which were later elaborated by Ken Burns and others as being truth and non-fiction, but imho that would be a disservice to boxing fans by pushing legends that are simply not true down the throats of a whole generation of would be fans wanting to learn about this sport. Was he a great fighter? Yes. But make no mistake, this man was garbage.

[scallum]

It was important in uplifting the oppressed spirits of an entire peoples. Given people confidence that they are just as capable as others.

George Dixon was a world champion before Jack. Where do you stand on his chronic brutalizing of women?

I know of George Dixon being the first Black Champion. Of course I don't agree with Inhumane treatment of anyone but I try n focus on positive actions of historical figures, every human does shameful deeds. B

[scallum]

It was important in uplifting the oppressed spirits of an entire peoples. Given people confidence that they are just as capable as others.

George Dixon was a world champion before Jack. Where do you stand on his chronic brutalizing of women?

People also tend to forget that colored boxers Bill Richmond and Tom Mulineaux were nearly 150 years before Johnson and they were class acts, and never incited any sort of riots or misgivings of having black men fight for (then) the biggest crown in sports which at that time was the British Heavyweight crown (both men fought Tom Cribb, I believe).

Dixon, and others were also far more reserved and didn't add much controversy--- which is ironic because Dixon, if I am not mistaken, had a white wife. The difference, however, between those men and Johnson wasn't because of the heavyweight championship meaning so much more, but it was because of Johnson's character and makeup as a man, rather than as an athlete. Long before he even won the title, people were parading around him as being next in line--- hoping he'd get a shot at Jeffries, and people rooted for him when he chased down Burns across the pond---- but they found out quickly after winning the title, the essence of the man. First, he broke an agreement with the British boxing boards because he didnt give Sam Langford a shot at the title as promised--- and it was the British board that put up some of the funds for the Burns/Johnson fight. Second, his arrogance started to really shine through and while he always did taunt, smile, etc. he upped the ante and pushed farther than ever before. Third, though it was known he had been with white women, he made it into a sick game--- it seemed almost every other week he was with someone new, and he mistreated the women, etc. Fourth, he felt he was above the law and above boxing--- as he refused certain challengers (who were black), and of course he evaded the federal government and only when he lost the title did he give in and come back, because he knew then that he would never again be anything because he burned too many bridges as champion.

Sure we can buy into the myths/stories (most started by Johnson himself) which were later elaborated by Ken Burns and others as being truth and non-fiction, but imho that would be a disservice to boxing fans by pushing legends that are simply not true down the throats of a whole generation of would be fans wanting to learn about this sport. Was he a great fighter? Yes. But make no mistake, this man was garbage.

If he was Garbage, what was the society he grew up in ?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

It was important in uplifting the oppressed spirits of an entire peoples. Given people confidence that they are just as capable as others.

George Dixon was a world champion before Jack. Where do you stand on his chronic brutalizing of women?

I know of George Dixon being the first Black Champion. Of course I don't agree with Inhumane treatment of anyone but I try n focus on positive actions of historical figures, every human does shameful deeds. B

I understand that, but I saw you renounce Broner for similar behavior from one incident where Jack did this all the time. Full power Heavyweight champion blows to females. While nobody is perfect, I can't see how somebody like that can be a top 5 all time black man in the history of earth.

The first thing that comes to mind for me when I hear the name Jack Johnson is great fighter, the second thing is asshole.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

It was important in uplifting the oppressed spirits of an entire peoples. Given people confidence that they are just as capable as others.

George Dixon was a world champion before Jack. Where do you stand on his chronic brutalizing of women?

People also tend to forget that colored boxers Bill Richmond and Tom Mulineaux were nearly 150 years before Johnson and they were class acts, and never incited any sort of riots or misgivings of having black men fight for (then) the biggest crown in sports which at that time was the British Heavyweight crown (both men fought Tom Cribb, I believe).

Dixon, and others were also far more reserved and didn't add much controversy--- which is ironic because Dixon, if I am not mistaken, had a white wife. The difference, however, between those men and Johnson wasn't because of the heavyweight championship meaning so much more, but it was because of Johnson's character and makeup as a man, rather than as an athlete. Long before he even won the title, people were parading around him as being next in line--- hoping he'd get a shot at Jeffries, and people rooted for him when he chased down Burns across the pond---- but they found out quickly after winning the title, the essence of the man. First, he broke an agreement with the British boxing boards because he didnt give Sam Langford a shot at the title as promised--- and it was the British board that put up some of the funds for the Burns/Johnson fight. Second, his arrogance started to really shine through and while he always did taunt, smile, etc. he upped the ante and pushed farther than ever before. Third, though it was known he had been with white women, he made it into a sick game--- it seemed almost every other week he was with someone new, and he mistreated the women, etc. Fourth, he felt he was above the law and above boxing--- as he refused certain challengers (who were black), and of course he evaded the federal government and only when he lost the title did he give in and come back, because he knew then that he would never again be anything because he burned too many bridges as champion.

Sure we can buy into the myths/stories (most started by Johnson himself) which were later elaborated by Ken Burns and others as being truth and non-fiction, but imho that would be a disservice to boxing fans by pushing legends that are simply not true down the throats of a whole generation of would be fans wanting to learn about this sport. Was he a great fighter? Yes. But make no mistake, this man was garbage.

I also tire of people romanticizing Jack. He didn't do himself or any of his people any favors with his activity.