off topic the Boxrec official rugby thread.

[J]

its all cyclical sport always is you watch these fuckers roar back over the next 4 years.

same old same old form england great pack crap backs.

we need a top flight backs coach to simplify it I think.

Well done to wales I thought you were done at the weekdn my one regret is we dont see NZ France in Paris.


that to me would be the best game in world at present.

[Wrists]

Hi J - think our pack is great and I tend to agree with you on the backs issue with a few bits of tweaking i think we can be near the top again.

I remember a few years back whn with the likes of Robinson, Balshaw and Healey we had pace and invention - now it seems like its all bosh bosh bosh.

to me ollie smith must be sucking off robinson's daughter if he can't get a game in that midfield.

Jonny is 20 times the player Hodgson ever willl be (Stuart Barnes talks out of his arse bout this issue so much its untrue).

Cohen should not be starting - Cueto and Voyce for me.

Daws is better than Harry 'Alan Smith' Ellis and Noon has been treated disgracefully - believe me the guy for the past 5 years has been the most consistent centre in the premiership

Tindall - thanks for the memories

Lewsey - hate to say our one 'great' back being stifled like this.

Saying all that the French won't like our pack and I think we can win the 6 nations but SA and NZ are too far ahead for anything else now

Regards Wrists

[TheRiverCityHippy]

for me our backs are awful, and dawson`s service is the slowest in international rugby these days - the little creative ability we do have in the back division is easily negated by defences that have time-a-plenty to regroup after every ruck or maul.
its embaressing watching our pathetic attempts at handling moves, even simple run arounds and miss passes end up with the loose forwards scrambling around the floor trying to regain possession. we have gone backwards in recent years and our backs seem to spend more time in the gym than on the park. this crowd make the likes of dusty hare, john carlton and jamie salmon look like the ella`s and campese of this world.

[nickd]

Hi J - think our pack is great and I tend to agree with you on the backs issue with a few bits of tweaking i think we can be near the top again.

I remember a few years back whn with the likes of Robinson, Balshaw and Healey we had pace and invention - now it seems like its all bosh bosh bosh.

to me ollie smith must be sucking off robinson's daughter if he can't get a game in that midfield.

Jonny is 20 times the player Hodgson ever willl be (Stuart Barnes talks out of his arse bout this issue so much its untrue).

Cohen should not be starting - Cueto and Voyce for me.

Daws is better than Harry 'Alan Smith' Ellis and Noon has been treated disgracefully - believe me the guy for the past 5 years has been the most consistent centre in the premiership

Tindall - thanks for the memories

Lewsey - hate to say our one 'great' back being stifled like this.

Saying all that the French won't like our pack and I think we can win the 6 nations but SA and NZ are too far ahead for anything else now

Regards Wrists

No doubt Wilkinson would be in if fit but when is that these days?

Tindall has been below par for a while, time for a change there for sure.

[Lenny]

I said it at the begining of this thread and i'll say it again, in current form Tindall should be dropped. People outside him just aren't seeing any good ball, the one time JSD (who should be on the wing imo) saw the ball in his one half he could do nothing but get smashed. Varndell saw nothing of the ball when he came on apart from his try. This together with the fact he doesn't have the ability to break through good defences anymore (or Will Greenwood to set him going) means he offers very little in attack.

I think it should be Abbott and inside centre and Smith/Noon outside. We need a playmaker in there. Dawson should be out and Richards should be given ago although Ellis shows good potential and is still very young. Pack looks solid though

[Coconut]

Realistically, Dawson's either not going to be around or will not be as good by the time the World Cup rolls around. Given that, and given that the only thing he has on the competition at the moment is experience, I'd drop him. I agree his pass is poor and the rest of his game's dropping off. Keep him there as long as Hodgson needs him, then can him.

Tindall, too, was called up after not enough time back in club rugby. He's young and so can get back (pleased to see Cohen having done the same) but realistically he needs someone creative alongside him whatever happens. I'd see Smith, Noon and Lewsey as the best centres England have at the moment with Simpson-Daniel being an option provided the ball can get from 9 to 10 to 12 to 13 in less than 20 minutes and 47 phases. Agreed with the Cueto / Voyce calls as well - would like to see this Varndell feller given some game time against the lesser 6 Nations. Perhaps the Welsh game...

The big problem is that England are playing phase rugby, looking for contact to set up a set-piece-type situation. Contrast that with even Australia and they're playing heads-up rugby, looking for the offload, looking to avoid tackles. New Zealand are obviously the big exponents of this. Stick that tactic on top of slow ball and a set of backs who are solid but never really imaginative and there's no chance for any creativity.

[Loftgroov]

Cohen should not be starting - Cueto and Voyce for me.

Daws is better than Harry 'Alan Smith' Ellis and Noon has been treated disgracefully - believe me the guy for the past 5 years has been the most consistent centre in the premiership

Voyce? I assume that is on the back of two tries against Samoa, and "better than average" displays for Wasps? It's too early to pencil him in as an England wing. A few more games and time will tell. Varndell probably has more scope. So I'm not going to disagree, but that's an early call..

Also Daws over Ellis? How old is Dawson? There is simply no point in playing Dawson. He won't be about for the World Cup most likely, and it is essential to develop the younger No.9s and give them plenty of game time.

I agree that Ellis is petulant at the best of times, but he’ll learn to curb that. Dawson can’t curb getting older…and he’s too slow getting the ball away from the rucks and mauls. Always has been. By the time he has tossed the ball away to the fly-half the opposition defence is always reorganised. Personally I’d like to see Shaun Perry bought in before long.

[J]

well Matt never was a real scrum half.
he started in the centre for saints.

Hence the technicalities fo being a scrum half have always come hard. i think Ellis also has problem with his distribution. Perry is the form man.


Id pick the following at present for our back line.

9. Perry
10. Hogeson (who is a far better distributor of the ball and attacking fly half than wilkinson, I dont agree with what is stated above at all).
11. Varndell (I dont like voyce, he left bath which is good cos the tosser reminds me of tim henman, whom Im known to dislike immensly).
12. Smith /Noon / Abbot all much of a much but lets give smith a go.
13. Lewsey
14. Cueto
15 Gisbergen (kicker).

the pack is an embarassment of riches really and i dont think needs much discussion.

[states]

I think that's about right, J. Lewsey needs to move to centre because it's all too much of a muchness in there at the moment, too many guys looking for contact rather than attacking space.

[Lenny]

I think we've the players at outside though, Noon is on the best form in the premiership and we all know about Smith attributes. Lewsey is one of the best full backs in the world and the only reason he is looking anything but is the lack of talent in the midfield for him to pick the ball up wide. Inside is the problem and for me the only 2 solutions to that are Abbott and Barkley.

[J]

hmm i like the barkley option but didnt mention it as im so biased toward bath. Id still have lewsey outside him tho.

glad someone else maybe sees this as an option, coudl be like Catt/ wilko axis in a way, tho the roles are probably reversed. Charlie being the more dynamic runner.

[Coconut]

Don't fret. Andy Farrell will soon be recovered from his terminal ageing and be able to slot into the England number 12 shirt without any fuss.

Actually I think Dawson's service is also a reason England's centres don't have the time to do as much as they might otherwise, but apart from Greenwood and Guscott we haven't had many 'creative' types in the centres in recent years.


Read a few 2005 World XVs over the last couple of days. Almost to a man they've picked Sheridan at loose head. Fine, he's good, but a couple of caps and a destruction of one of the worst props ever to play international rugby doesn't get him the shirt IMO

[J]

even iu saw that hayman took him apart mate, i agree.

[Loftgroov]

well Matt never was a real scrum half.
he started in the centre for saints.

Hence the technicalities fo being a scrum half have always come hard. i think Ellis also has problem with his distribution. Perry is the form man.


Id pick the following at present for our back line.

9. Perry
10. Hogeson (who is a far better distributor of the ball and attacking fly half than wilkinson, I dont agree with what is stated above at all).
11. Varndell (I dont like voyce, he left bath which is good cos the tosser reminds me of tim henman, whom Im known to dislike immensly).
12. Smith /Noon / Abbot all much of a much but lets give smith a go.
13. Lewsey
14. Cueto
15 Gisbergen (kicker).

the pack is an embarassment of riches really and i dont think needs much discussion.

I agree with all except Van Gisbergan at 15. He is a WOEFUL tackler. Many people started pulling their plonkers about him for England because he is an excellent goal-kicker (and Hodgson wasn't)..and that gave us an interesting option.. but he's a defensive liability.

Lewsey is awesome in both atatck and defence, and despite having soudn credentials at 13 (he's simply good enough to play anywhere, and my favourite player) ... he needs to stay at 15.

Hayman's didn't take Sheridan apart at all. That's just from the NZ press seeing as they won the match. I saw it 50/50.

[nickd]

Oh yes Andy Farrell, that worked out well didn't it?

[J]

well Matt never was a real scrum half.
he started in the centre for saints.

Hence the technicalities fo being a scrum half have always come hard. i think Ellis also has problem with his distribution. Perry is the form man.


Id pick the following at present for our back line.

9. Perry
10. Hogeson (who is a far better distributor of the ball and attacking fly half than wilkinson, I dont agree with what is stated above at all).
11. Varndell (I dont like voyce, he left bath which is good cos the tosser reminds me of tim henman, whom Im known to dislike immensly).
12. Smith /Noon / Abbot all much of a much but lets give smith a go.
13. Lewsey
14. Cueto
15 Gisbergen (kicker).

the pack is an embarassment of riches really and i dont think needs much discussion.

I agree with all except Van Gisbergan at 15. He is a WOEFUL tackler. Many people started pulling their plonkers about him for England because he is an excellent goal-kicker (and Hodgson wasn't)..and that gave us an interesting option.. but he's a defensive liability.

Lewsey is awesome in both atatck and defence, and despite having soudn credentials at 13 (he's simply good enough to play anywhere, and my favourite player) ... he needs to stay at 15.

Hayman's didn't take Sheridan apart at all. That's just from the NZ press seeing as they won the match. I saw it 50/50.

FUNNILY ENOUGH I DONT READ THE NZ PRESS.

i did however see hayman pop Thompson and sheriden out of the scrum on more than one occasion and one time this cost us 3 points.

perhaps coconut could referee this one as a front row man but i thought hayman deffo had the upper hand

[Lenny]

Barkley is also an excellent runner and regulally plays inside for Bath J, it's just a shame he has Malone inside him. Playing Ollie would also give you a left and right sided kicker in the team but I rate Abbott quite highly.

Agree with Loftgroov on Van G, is a good goal kicker, good under the high ball but poor at tackling, decision making and is not a devastating runner. Moving Lewsey from FB and playing VG is not an option. He should def. never be on the bench with Barkley what's the point??

[J]

you dont have to explain to me about Bath my friend.

ive been supporting them since I was 6.

Barkley is fine my point being he isnt as cutting as Catt. but few are on his day.

dont mention malone again please. Ive gotta go shit now.

[Coconut]

Hayman was under pressure in the first scrum but after that he certainly held his own. Given that he had to come back from the first scrum (mentally a challenge) and given the overall performance I actually think Hayman edged it. That said, Sheridan does appear to contribute a bit more in the loose and his bulk has coincided with a renewed vigour in England's driving play.

But actually Hayman is a very good prop. Whilst Sheridan was almost always in the number 1 jersey for these World XVs Hayman was a universal pick at 3. It stuns me how people so consistently overlook the French props (and the Argies as well), though. To my knowledge the last time France fielded a prop who wasn't world class was in the early 90s, when they had a trend of picking hookers at prop. Remember Moscato and Lascube, who got sent off for going ape shit at Jeff Probyn in 91(?)?




J, you should read the NZ Herald. It's their most broad-sheety NZ paper and is still as one-eyed as Abu Hamzar

[J]

i know mate, got a couple of kiwis here at work and used to play cricket in a team full of NZ, jappies n aussies.

add to this going to oz last Xmas /New year and South africa the year before that and chatting about the chances of our cricket team hatton and the rugby world cup, I know how blinkered some of these folk can be. Its mainly banter i do feel but they will never concede anything til its happened and even then there are numerous excuses but we arent any better most the time.

[states]

Figured I'd resurrect this in time for the Six Nations. Predictions gents?

For me it's France, England, Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Italy, in that order. Although I think Scotland might actually fare better than that.

[nickd]

France definitely look strong, Wales could well struggle this year we punched well above our weight last year. With a full squad I think we'd be up there but we're missing a few and plenty of walking wounded! I still fancy a result on Saturday though.

[stujones]

Scotland are gunning for us (Wales) and I am not looking forward to this years championship. If you go on club form, you'd have to make Wales 5th favourites. Going on the Autumn internationals I think Wales would be favoured over Scotland and Ireland.

I'm tipping Scotland to beat Ireland, but unsure about how they will fair in the final table.

I think France will take the slam, England will lose only one game, Italy will get the Spoon - and really not sure how the other three teams will fair - actually think they could cancel each other out (Wales beat Scotland, Scotland beat Ireland, Ireland beat Wales - at lonsdowne).

However, if the Irish can maintain recent club form, they could push for the championship and even the slam.

[J]

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD NO VARNDELL

J Lewsey (Wasps); M Cueto (Sale Sharks), J Noon (Newcastle), M Tindall (Gloucester), B Cohen (Northampton); C Hodgson (Sale Sharks), H Ellis (Leicester); A Sheridan (Sale Sharks), S Thompson (Northampton), M Stevens (Bath), S Borthwick (Bath), D Grewcock (Bath), J Worsley (Wasps), L Moody (Leicester), M Corry (capt, Leicester).

Replacements: L Mears (Bath), J White (Leicester), S Shaw (Wasps), L Dallaglio (Wasps), M Dawson (Wasps), A Goode (Leicester), T Voyce (Wasps).

[Lenny]

I think I want England to lose that is a terrible squad. Is he the only one who can't see that Noon and Tindall don't work together at centre (Tindall is def NOT an inside centre). I think Noon should be given a chance outside Abbott who is playing consitantly well for Wasps, has good hands, makes good breaks and an underated defence.
Moody is better at blindside and shouldn't be in the team on the grounds he hasn't been playing, Lund has been looking excellent for Sale and can actually offload the ball unlike the current backrow. Cohen shouldn't be ahead of Voyce or Vandell and Forrester and JSD should be on the bench.

I wonder if England are going to play 9 man rugby?