Robinson-La Motta (St Valentine's day massacre)
Robinson-La Motta (St Valentine's day massacre)
La Motta always seemed a superbly conditioned fighter. The series with Robinson is legendary. What happens to Jake in this fight though? Why does he suddenly appear to just run out of gas right after having one of his most dominant rounds. Jake unloads to Robinson's body but then after that it's as if Jake is spent. Any thoughts, rumours or knowledge would be much appreciated.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
Re: Robinson-La Motta (St Valentine's day massacre)
Ezzard wrote:La Motta always seemed a superbly conditioned fighter. The series with Robinson is legendary. What happens to Jake in this fight though? Why does he suddenly appear to just run out of gas right after having one of his most dominant rounds. Jake unloads to Robinson's body but then after that it's as if Jake is spent. Any thoughts, rumours or knowledge would be much appreciated.
i think it was because robinson wore him down, sounds hard to believe i know. but robinson really started to beat the shit out of him in the later rounds.
Re: Robinson-La Motta (St Valentine's day massacre)
Cheers BBBrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:Ezzard wrote:La Motta always seemed a superbly conditioned fighter. The series with Robinson is legendary. What happens to Jake in this fight though? Why does he suddenly appear to just run out of gas right after having one of his most dominant rounds. Jake unloads to Robinson's body but then after that it's as if Jake is spent. Any thoughts, rumours or knowledge would be much appreciated.
i think it was because robinson wore him down, sounds hard to believe i know. but robinson really started to beat the shit out of him in the later rounds.
It seems more than that though. I can't remember the round but Robinson seems in trouble around 9th-10th and Jake starts to work him over and then suddenly in the next round it's all Robinson. Jake seems totally gone. It's not like a gradual process. Was Jake partying too hard? I find that difficult to believe but soemthig does not seem right with him.
...lamotta was weakened by making weight..as he had been for some time. he was after sugar ray from the beginning and even matching the great one with jabs.....but those punches he was taking from robinson as robinson was backing up...he was a marvel at doing that..weren't love taps. jakhe had to go all out and hope for a kayo....he was tiring and that great onslaught as he had robinson against the ropes was his last stand...took what energy he had left. incidentally watch that onslaught as closely as you can....slow speed if possible...and a lot of punches got through...but sugar ray was also slipping and sliding many of them.
add up the factors... jake had to set a fast pace in an attempt to match the control of the fight against the fastest middleweight ever... .lamotta was never a really hard puncher....robinson had never been knocked out...and had beaten lamotta before....robinson was a very hard puncher....hurt lamotta, though he couldn't put him down. jake was nearing the end of his middle weight days.
as his later fights show....sugar ray reached his peak as a middleweight in that one.....and jake was past his.
add up the factors... jake had to set a fast pace in an attempt to match the control of the fight against the fastest middleweight ever... .lamotta was never a really hard puncher....robinson had never been knocked out...and had beaten lamotta before....robinson was a very hard puncher....hurt lamotta, though he couldn't put him down. jake was nearing the end of his middle weight days.
as his later fights show....sugar ray reached his peak as a middleweight in that one.....and jake was past his.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
as his later fights show....sugar ray reached his peak as a middleweight in that one.....and jake was past his.
well idk, he looked great vs robinson at times in this fight, i think this fight wass the tail end of jakes prime and he simply aged DRAMATICALLY and was never the same after robinson VI
jaclem, i asked a little while back about charles fights with big johhny haynes, archie moore II , and rex layne I. any updates or stories on those fights.
bb and ezzard.... the johnny haynes fight reminds me of a funny ezzard story. the radio show in discussion here was on a jazz station in cincinnati on saturday afternoons..always at a bar/restaurant/nightlcub. i talked to (i always used the word conversation instead of interview) performers moslty, but got a few boxers in. ezzard came on about three or four times. this was in the early 60s. one day he was in town and stopped in without my knowing he was coming, which was of course a great surprise. he used to laugh that i knew more about his record than he did...i.e. he didn't know he had the most total fights of any heavyweight champion. for some reason .the johnny haynes fight came up in the conversation, and i said how was it going against one of the tallest heavyweights active at the time..(i didn't recall the weight difference.) He asked who i meant and i said johnny haynes and he was surprised that haynes was that tall...and then....he asked...."How did i do?" and i said he won by a knockout...and he laughed...he said he vaguely remembered the fight and knew he won but didn't recall the details. he said he should start betting on his boxing record and call me first so he'd be right!!!
i thinnk it was typical of the pro and the fan...the fan usually kn ows more about the pro's history than the pro does. (Sinatra was always wrong about the first record he made....but that's a different forum.)
RE: Rex layne I...i saw that one on live tv and ezzard was winning on points okay..it was a good fight ...layne was tough but getting frustrated...and it was in the ninth round,. i thiink...when layne blatantly and deliberately butted ezzard. bell rang. i said to my friends...."Layne made a big mistake. ezz was angry...beat the hell out of layne in the next round....layne was carried to his corner....the bell could save you then...and when his corner pushed him out ezzard finished him. the only time i recall asking about layne...and the crazy decision when dempsey was the referee..ezz just said something like "tough guy."
MooreII...i had a chance to look at an "unofficial" film-from-near ringside ..a few times....and archie was holding his own..may even have had an edge in a master's boxing game....until ezzard floored him in a late round...seven i think...and archie finished the fight in his defensive shell...threw hardly any punches. i've never understood why this one comes up as one archie "probably won that one". archie always said he did....mentioned it was in ezzard's home town, which gave it some credibility.
ezzard would just grin when i asked him (on the air) about archie and said "Old arch sure is something, isn't he.) Off the air he told me that moore whispered nasty things in his ear as they boxed...."you're a hot shot here but you're just another n---------" stuff like that. ezz was bemused...said archie was a black man himself..and wondered how he could do that. my theory was he knew ezzard was the faster and slicker boxer and wanted to throw him off his game.
i hope this answers your questions. all this happened so long ago that my memory may be fuzzy on some details but i'm clear on the over all gist of what i've written. thanks fvor asking.
i thinnk it was typical of the pro and the fan...the fan usually kn ows more about the pro's history than the pro does. (Sinatra was always wrong about the first record he made....but that's a different forum.)
RE: Rex layne I...i saw that one on live tv and ezzard was winning on points okay..it was a good fight ...layne was tough but getting frustrated...and it was in the ninth round,. i thiink...when layne blatantly and deliberately butted ezzard. bell rang. i said to my friends...."Layne made a big mistake. ezz was angry...beat the hell out of layne in the next round....layne was carried to his corner....the bell could save you then...and when his corner pushed him out ezzard finished him. the only time i recall asking about layne...and the crazy decision when dempsey was the referee..ezz just said something like "tough guy."
MooreII...i had a chance to look at an "unofficial" film-from-near ringside ..a few times....and archie was holding his own..may even have had an edge in a master's boxing game....until ezzard floored him in a late round...seven i think...and archie finished the fight in his defensive shell...threw hardly any punches. i've never understood why this one comes up as one archie "probably won that one". archie always said he did....mentioned it was in ezzard's home town, which gave it some credibility.
ezzard would just grin when i asked him (on the air) about archie and said "Old arch sure is something, isn't he.) Off the air he told me that moore whispered nasty things in his ear as they boxed...."you're a hot shot here but you're just another n---------" stuff like that. ezz was bemused...said archie was a black man himself..and wondered how he could do that. my theory was he knew ezzard was the faster and slicker boxer and wanted to throw him off his game.
i hope this answers your questions. all this happened so long ago that my memory may be fuzzy on some details but i'm clear on the over all gist of what i've written. thanks fvor asking.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
thanx great stuff jaclem
yeah i have highlights of the fight on tape. layne had a great chin, and ALOT OF HEART, i could not believe how he got up in the 11th round from that knockdown
he was out cold at the bell in the 10th saved by the bell his corner dragging him back trying to revive him. layne was a tough man geting up like that
and ezzard knocked out a prime tough rex layne.
rex layne did not have a long prime, but in that short time of his prime, he is underated by boxing fans.
layne was veiwed(not marciano) , as the next heavyweight champion. he was being touted as the next jack dempsey, and at 6'1 200lb he was strong slugger who packed a strong right hand punch despite being clumsly at times.
but layne in his prime beat some good fighters. he beat big cuban cesar brion, then in a epic fight took bob satterfields best punches and got off the floor to knock satterfield out.
then layne proved he could be the next champion when he outworked and outpointed in a huge upset a over confident jersey joe walcott(though i thought walcott won). and this win for layne WAS BEFORE walcott won the title. it was a bit of an off night for a overweight jersey joe but a huge win for layne
layne howevers prime ended at 24. he faced rocky marciano and rocky beat on him for 6 rounds, until landing a sledge hammer right in the 6th that sent laynes teeth flying acros the ring and layne did a slow delayed reaction crumble to the canvas out cold.
tha brutal layne KO loss hurt him tremendously, and in his next fight went up against ezzard charles and charles brutally knocked him out.
people view layne as no world beater based on hi 50-17 record, but it was my opiion that after suffering two brutal back to back losses to marciano and charles, layne was never the same again.
remeember layne was 34-1 with alot of kayoes when he fought charles.
use this as a reason he was past it after those 2 fights :
after charles fight he soon lost to a 9-6 club fighter so that goes to show u how much he slipped. he also had a weight gain after those 2 fights puting on 15lb and fighting the rest of his career well over 200lb.
on film layne impressed me in some categories, power, strength, heart, inside fighting, but he lacked solid defense, was crude at times, and wasnt mobile.
i thought alot more of lastarza than layne.
RE: Rex layne I...i saw that one on live tv and ezzard was winning on points okay..it was a good fight ...layne was tough but getting frustrated...and it was in the ninth round,. i thiink...when layne blatantly and deliberately butted ezzard. bell rang. i said to my friends...."Layne made a big mistake. ezz was angry...beat the hell out of layne in the next round....layne was carried to his corner....the bell could save you then...and when his corner pushed him out ezzard finished him. the only time i recall asking about layne...and the crazy decision when dempsey was the referee..ezz just said something like "tough guy."
yeah i have highlights of the fight on tape. layne had a great chin, and ALOT OF HEART, i could not believe how he got up in the 11th round from that knockdown
he was out cold at the bell in the 10th saved by the bell his corner dragging him back trying to revive him. layne was a tough man geting up like that
and ezzard knocked out a prime tough rex layne.
rex layne did not have a long prime, but in that short time of his prime, he is underated by boxing fans.
layne was veiwed(not marciano) , as the next heavyweight champion. he was being touted as the next jack dempsey, and at 6'1 200lb he was strong slugger who packed a strong right hand punch despite being clumsly at times.
but layne in his prime beat some good fighters. he beat big cuban cesar brion, then in a epic fight took bob satterfields best punches and got off the floor to knock satterfield out.
then layne proved he could be the next champion when he outworked and outpointed in a huge upset a over confident jersey joe walcott(though i thought walcott won). and this win for layne WAS BEFORE walcott won the title. it was a bit of an off night for a overweight jersey joe but a huge win for layne
layne howevers prime ended at 24. he faced rocky marciano and rocky beat on him for 6 rounds, until landing a sledge hammer right in the 6th that sent laynes teeth flying acros the ring and layne did a slow delayed reaction crumble to the canvas out cold.
tha brutal layne KO loss hurt him tremendously, and in his next fight went up against ezzard charles and charles brutally knocked him out.
people view layne as no world beater based on hi 50-17 record, but it was my opiion that after suffering two brutal back to back losses to marciano and charles, layne was never the same again.
remeember layne was 34-1 with alot of kayoes when he fought charles.
use this as a reason he was past it after those 2 fights :
after charles fight he soon lost to a 9-6 club fighter so that goes to show u how much he slipped. he also had a weight gain after those 2 fights puting on 15lb and fighting the rest of his career well over 200lb.
on film layne impressed me in some categories, power, strength, heart, inside fighting, but he lacked solid defense, was crude at times, and wasnt mobile.
i thought alot more of lastarza than layne.
Jaclem
Your post is solid gold, many thanks. Who'd have thought that about Archie. I agree that he was probably trying to throw Ezzard off his game. It still amazes me how little is said about their trilogy when you consider they are most people's 1 and 2 in the division.
BB
LaStarza used to be rated quite hoghly as a HW. These days people seem to be much less impressed with him. I ageree with you that Maciano's style was a nightmare for opponents because he hit them everywhere with everything. Henry Cooper once said in an interview, in reference to Rocky that fighting a guy like that took years off your career.
Your post is solid gold, many thanks. Who'd have thought that about Archie. I agree that he was probably trying to throw Ezzard off his game. It still amazes me how little is said about their trilogy when you consider they are most people's 1 and 2 in the division.
BB
LaStarza used to be rated quite hoghly as a HW. These days people seem to be much less impressed with him. I ageree with you that Maciano's style was a nightmare for opponents because he hit them everywhere with everything. Henry Cooper once said in an interview, in reference to Rocky that fighting a guy like that took years off your career.