Earnie Shavers (1978) vs. Gerry Cooney (1982)...

[Goodnight, Irene]

Two of the limited big-hitters who bit the dust at the hands of the great Larry Holmes. Each were as flawed as they were dangerous.

This isn't lasting long. Someone has to go, & fast. Whose lights get turned out? I'm having trouble deciding.

[The Great John L]

I'm sure you won't be surprised, but I'll go with Shavers. As you noted, Ernie was very flawed, but one flaw people point out that just isn't defensible is that he somehow had a weak chin. Shavers was stopped quite a few times, but besides the Quarry fight where he was hit with about 20 clean solid power shots, his stoppage loses were all due more to fatigue than to any chin issue. Besides the Quarry fight, just try to find one example of Shavers being dropped when he wasn't completely gassed. There is one fight this happened in when he was about 36yo, but that's it.

Just look at Shavers fight with Ron Lyle. He went in trenches with Lyle, dropped him, out fought him and then got stopped in the 6th after running out of gas. Lyles next fight was his war with Foreman where he dropped George twice, and hurt him on several other ocassions. Shavers stood in the trenches with the same Lyle and didn't flinch. Well, at least until he ran out of gas.

Of course, I also think that Cooney is probably under rated a bit now, but I just can't see him surviving this one. Of course, none of these things are black and white, so he could catch Shavers clean and then pound him like Quarry did. It's possible, but it just seems much less likely than Cooney getting tagged and stopped early.

[Jaywheel]

Going with Shavers too. Boring Decision...

[gambler49]

Hard 1 2 call. The longer the fight goes the more I favor Cooney. But if they go at it from the start id favor Shavers. Surley Cooney would try and keep Shavers at distance and set him up for the left hook counter. However that wern't rly his style.....
Id have 2 go wiv Cooney on this one. But I see it as a 50/50 fight.
But it would never be boring thats for sure.

[Nile4000]

Slight edge to Earnie, who would probably stop Gerry in three rounds.

[drunkenpiper36]

If Shavers lands his signature right hand on the temple of Cooney, its all over.. But if Gerry is the one who who gets his guns off firt, then Shavers is screwed. Earnie did well against boxers, but against guys who could really hurt him and early, he would have been f-cked most of the time.

[gilgamesh]

Inside 3 rounds, Gerry Nooney Cooney will be knocked OUT!!!! D

[The Great John L]

Earnie did well against boxers, but against guys who could really hurt him and early, he would have been f-cked most of the time.

Yeah, Quarry stopped him after landing about 30 power shots in the first round. Shavers had one quick KO loss to one of the best HWs of his era in a long and impressive career. When else did Shavers ever even get knocked down before he was exhausted?

I guess Cooney landing something and hurting him and then jumping on a hurt Shavers ala Quarry is a remote possibility. However, considering all of the top HWs Shavers fought that couldn't do that it seems really remote.

Ernie had problems against ATG boxers like Holmes and against guys who could withstand the early round onslaught and come firing back after the middle rounds. If you haven't actually seen him fight, it's all there in the records if you would rather just read.

Do a little research before you make silly statements like this one.

[energie]

gerry cooney stops ernie shavers early....2 or 3 rds ...

[dempseyfire]

Easy fight to pick; Shavers by KO before the end of the 5th. The better chin and actually the better technician.

[Chuck1052]

After watching footage of Jerry Quarry stopping Earnie Shavers in one round, I came away thinking that Shavers took a punch much better that I originally thought. As someone said in a previous post on this thread, Quarry connected with quite a number of power punches before the bout was stopped. I also believe that Shavers had more durability than Ken Norton. In my opinion, Norton would have been destroyed by Quarry in short order if the two met in 1973 or earlier.

A bout between Shavers and Gerry Cooney would be interesting and could have gone either way if each fighter was in his prime. Shavers' best bet would be to land a telling punch early in the bout because his stamina was suspect. Cooney had more than Shavers in terms of size, skills and finishing ability, which is why I would favor Cooney to win the bout.

- Chuck Johnston

[drunkenpiper36]

Yeah, Quarry stopped him after landing about 30 power shots in the first round.

And you don't think Cooney could have stopped him in the same round with half that number of punches with the power and fast starting ability he had?

Shavers had one quick KO loss to one of the best HWs of his era in a long and impressive career. When else did Shavers ever even get knocked down before he was exhausted?

He was KO'd by Ron Stander in 1970. Stopped in one round by Quarry in 1973. Dropped and decisioned by Bob Stallings in 1974. KO'd in 6 rounds by Ron Lyle in 1975. Decked by Roy Williams in 1976. Stopped in the mid rounds by both Mercado and Cobb in 1980 - within a year and a half to two years after the proposed time frame of this thread for a matchup with Cooney. Now I realize that some of these fights came either before or after Shavers was prime. But my point is that he showed the tendency to get floored, stopped or beaten in some way at all stages of his career, including prime and not always to elite fighters. Its not out of the question that Earnie could have KO'd Cooney as I already mentioned before. But to think that Gerry couldn't do as well or better than some of these guys is not a reasonable assumption.

I guess Cooney landing something and hurting him and then jumping on a hurt Shavers ala Quarry is a remote possibility. However, considering all of the top HWs Shavers fought that couldn't do that it seems really remote.

Why is it so remote? Jerry Quarry RARELY did to anybody what he did to Shavers. Cooney on the other hand made a regular of it. He was a naturally aggressive starter with a lot more size and power than a man like Quarry who earned his keep as a counter puncher. How many of the top heavyweights whom Shavers met were elite punchers and fast starters wrapped up into one? How many of those few did he weather the storm to beat?

Ernie had problems against ATG boxers like Holmes and against guys who could withstand the early round onslaught and come firing back after the middle rounds. If you haven't actually seen him fight, it's all there in the records if you would rather just read.

Yes I've acknowledge this. And while I haven't seen his fights with Stallings, Williams, Mercado, or Stander, I have watched his fights with Quarry, Lyle, Holmes, Cobb, and Ali. Some of those guys weren't all boxers, and one of them who was a boxer, namely Ali was over the hill. Thank you but I am well aware of how to use boxrec just as you are.

Do a little research before you make silly statements like this one.

See all the above. And no need to be rude.

[The Great John L]

Shavers had one quick KO loss to one of the best HWs of his era in a long and impressive career. When else did Shavers ever even get knocked down before he was exhausted?

He was KO'd by Ron Stander in 1970. Stopped in one round by Quarry in 1973. Dropped and decisioned by Bob Stallings in 1974. KO'd in 6 rounds by Ron Lyle in 1975. Decked by Roy Williams in 1976. Stopped in the mid rounds by both Mercado and Cobb in 1980 - within a year and a half to two years after the proposed time frame of this thread for a matchup with Cooney. Now I realize that some of these fights came either before or after Shavers was prime. But my point is that he showed the tendency to get floored, stopped or beaten in some way at all stages of his career, including prime and not always to elite fighters. Its not out of the question that Earnie could have KO'd Cooney as I already mentioned before. But to think that Gerry couldn't do as well or better than some of these guys is not a reasonable assumption.

Please reread the bolded part and try again. The Lyle fight is particularly notable because Shavers stood up to everything Lyle threw at him until he gassed. You do know who Lyle was, right? He was the guy that turned the iron chinned George Foreman into a basketball. He couldn't drop Shavers until he was exhausted and yet the gangly, clumsy one-handed novice Cooney is somehow going to.

Have you actually seen any of the fights that you mentioned above, or are you just reading the boxrec summaries? If you had actually seen them then you would know how ill-informed your reply is. And you even missed the lone example of Shavers actually getting dropped early in a fight outside of the Quarry fight, although Ernie was getting long in the tooth at that point.

I actually liked Cooney when he was being built up, but his career was almost completely devoid of accomplishments. He was a media hyped guy who cashed in against Holmes and then years later served as a big name stooge for Spinks and Old George. He had a very good left hook and nothing else. Shavers was hard working guy who fought many tough fights in obscurity before getting attention with a single uppercut against Ellis. While far from perfect, he was a top ranked contender for years and actually beat a number of top HWs during arguably the best era for HWs. While he had stamina issues during his entire career, against a paper tiger like Cooney it wouldn't have mattered.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Shavers had one quick KO loss to one of the best HWs of his era in a long and impressive career. When else did Shavers ever even get knocked down before he was exhausted?

He was KO'd by Ron Stander in 1970. Stopped in one round by Quarry in 1973. Dropped and decisioned by Bob Stallings in 1974. KO'd in 6 rounds by Ron Lyle in 1975. Decked by Roy Williams in 1976. Stopped in the mid rounds by both Mercado and Cobb in 1980 - within a year and a half to two years after the proposed time frame of this thread for a matchup with Cooney. Now I realize that some of these fights came either before or after Shavers was prime. But my point is that he showed the tendency to get floored, stopped or beaten in some way at all stages of his career, including prime and not always to elite fighters. Its not out of the question that Earnie could have KO'd Cooney as I already mentioned before. But to think that Gerry couldn't do as well or better than some of these guys is not a reasonable assumption.

Please reread the bolded part and try again. The Lyle fight is particularly notable because Shavers stood up to everything Lyle threw at him until he gassed. You do know who Lyle was, right? He was the guy that turned the iron chinned George Foreman into a basketball. He couldn't drop Shavers until he was exhausted and yet the gangly, clumsy one-handed novice Cooney is somehow going to.

He doesn't consider Lyle to be a big puncher.

[The Great John L]

He doesn't consider Lyle to be a big puncher.

Oh, I forgot. George Foreman had a weak chin.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He doesn't consider Lyle to be a big puncher.

Oh, I forgot. George Foreman had a weak chin.

You gotta look at the KO%, that's much more important than visual footage and opposition.

[The Great John L]

He doesn't consider Lyle to be a big puncher.

Oh, I forgot. George Foreman had a weak chin.

You gotta look at the KO%, that's much more important than visual footage and opposition.

From his post I don't think he has actually seen any of the Shavers fights that he mentioned, so I guess he must be basing his opinions on what he’s reading in the records.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Oh, I forgot. George Foreman had a weak chin.

You gotta look at the KO%, that's much more important than visual footage and opposition.

From his post I don't think he has actually seen any of the Shavers fights that he mentioned, so I guess he must be basing his opinions on what he’s reading in the records.

Spot on, same with Weaver and his myriad of posts on John Tate when he said he had only seen highlights of two fights. The data base here is a great source, but many just look at the results and run with them. I understand that when there is no footage, these modern guys you can educate yourself.

[drunkenpiper36]

Please reread the bolded part and try again. The Lyle fight is particularly notable because Shavers stood up to everything Lyle threw at him until he gassed. You do know who Lyle was, right? He was the guy that turned the iron chinned George Foreman into a basketball. He couldn't drop Shavers until he was exhausted and yet the gangly, clumsy one-handed novice Cooney is somehow going to.

Have you actually seen any of the fights that you mentioned above, or are you just reading the boxrec summaries? If you had actually seen them then you would know how ill-informed your reply is. And you even missed the lone example of Shavers actually getting dropped early in a fight outside of the Quarry fight, although Ernie was getting long in the tooth at that point.

I actually liked Cooney when he was being built up, but his career was almost completely devoid of accomplishments. He was a media hyped guy who cashed in against Holmes and then years later served as a big name stooge for Spinks and Old George. He had a very good left hook and nothing else. Shavers was hard working guy who fought many tough fights in obscurity before getting attention with a single uppercut against Ellis. While far from perfect, he was a top ranked contender for years and actually beat a number of top HWs during arguably the best era for HWs. While he had stamina issues during his entire career, against a paper tiger like Cooney it wouldn't have mattered.

So in your opinion " tiring" after only 6 rounds and against a man who never KO'd an elite fighter ( other than Shavers ) refutes my argument? And using the disclaimer " outside of Quarry" isn't the reality. BTW, I agree that Foreman was durable, but Ali and Young decked him too. Wasn't exactly something that Lyle invented... I listed all the fights that I said I have seen and adimittedly listed the ones that I haven't, which is far more than you've done. If you want to schedule a time to watch these fights together here on youtube and go through them round for round i'd be more than happy to. My intention by listing those defeats and knockdown instances was to point out that he struggled with various types of opponents throughout ALL stages of his career, and not just when he was past it, fighting elite men, or " Gassed" as you desperately try and put it. If I were to do the same thing I could easily point out that Gerry Cooney was only defeated by two reigning champions in their primes and a veteran former champ who was on the verge of regaining the title, all of which occurred when he was coming off of extended periods of inactivity...I've also taken note of how you conveniently ignored half my points, but then given that selection seems to be your thing, then run with it I guess. I've also claimed more than once that I acknowledge that Shavers COULD win, but your view is far more one sided. You talk about Cooney beating washed up guys when Earnie's best wins were against shot versions of Ellis, Bugner, Norton and a green Young? Calling that selective bias only begins to describe it, but I can certainly understand how the painful truth can drive someone to back pedal.

[The Great John L]

BTW, I agree that Foreman was durable, but Ali and Young decked him too.

This guy is just too funny.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

BTW, I agree that Foreman was durable, but Ali and Young decked him too.

This guy is just too funny.

My favorite in that one was Michael Spinks was in his prime when he fought his beloved Gerald.

[drunkenpiper36]

BTW, I agree that Foreman was durable, but Ali and Young decked him too.

This guy is just too funny.

It does seem rather out of sorts to reference facts around here, but hey, why let fact get in the way of a good retort eh John?

[gilgamesh]

BTW, I agree that Foreman was durable, but Ali and Young decked him too.

This guy is just too funny.

Ali hit him with a ton of shots before putting him down, Foreman was just exhausted by the time he finally went down and out against Ali. I've never seen the Young-Foreman fight, but I'd have to assume it was a similar case there as well.

Ron Lyle was strong enough to put him on his ass (or flat down on his face I should say) even when he was still pretty fresh.

[drunkenpiper36]

BTW, I agree that Foreman was durable, but Ali and Young decked him too.

This guy is just too funny.

My favorite in that one was Michael Spinks was in his prime when he fought his beloved Gerald.

prime was an exaggeration, but being the undefeated reigning heavweight champion of the world and coming off of two wins over Holmes was a lot closer to prime than seeing only one round of boxing action in nearly three years and coming in at a career high weight. Don't bother answering, I'll do it for you.....

[SaadOffTheDeck]

BTW, I agree that Foreman was durable, but Ali and Young decked him too.

This guy is just too funny.

Ali hit him with a ton of shots before putting him down, Foreman was just exhausted by the time he finally went down and out against Ali. I've never seen the Young-Foreman fight, but I'd have to assume it was a similar case there as well.

Ron Lyle was strong enough to put him on his ass (or flat down on his face I should say) even when he was still pretty fresh.

You should watch the Young fight, it was a good one. And tired doesn't even begin to explain how George was in that last round. You're spot on.