Earnie Shavers (1978) vs. Gerry Cooney (1982)...

[SaadOffTheDeck]

This guy is just too funny.

My favorite in that one was Michael Spinks was in his prime when he fought his beloved Gerald.

prime was an exaggeration, but being the undefeated reigning heavweight champion of the world and coming off of two wins over Holmes was a lot closer to prime than seeing only one round of boxing action in nearly three years and coming in at a career high weight. Don't bother answering, I'll do it for you.....

Prime was beyond an exaggeration, he was clearly post-prime, prime is at 175, with banged up knees. Luckily he had a punching bag in front of him.

As for me answering, I shouldn't have to. You put me on ignore.

[drunkenpiper36]

BTW, I agree that Foreman was durable, but Ali and Young decked him too.

This guy is just too funny.

Ali hit him with a ton of shots before putting him down, Foreman was just exhausted by the time he finally went down and out against Ali. I've never seen the Young-Foreman fight, but I'd have to assume it was a similar case there as well.

Ron Lyle was strong enough to put him on his ass (or flat down on his face I should say) even when he was still pretty fresh.

I actually agree with you that Foreman's going down against Ali and Young was stamina related and not so much a question of chin... But the reason I referenced those two examples is because people are linking Lyle's sole KO win over a top rater in Shavers, with his two knockdowns of Foreman, and somehow transcending that into a reason for picking Shavers over Cooney... Wtf???

[The Great John L]

BTW, I agree that Foreman was durable, but Ali and Young decked him too.

This guy is just too funny.

It does seem rather out of sorts to reference facts around here, but hey, why let fact get in the way of a good retort eh John?

OK, so you haven't actually seen those two fights either.

[drunkenpiper36]

Prime was beyond an exaggeration, he was clearly post-prime, prime is at 175, with banged up knees. Luckily he had a punching bag in front of him.

[/quote]


That doesn't address my points about Cooney being in a far worse position than Spinks was and btw Spinks was interviewed in 1987 and said that he wore knee protection as a "precaution" but that his knees were fine.. As for that punching bag, he certainly hit Spinks with some good shots, which wasn't bad for being a semi retired guy with a tire around his waste.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

This guy is just too funny.

Ali hit him with a ton of shots before putting him down, Foreman was just exhausted by the time he finally went down and out against Ali. I've never seen the Young-Foreman fight, but I'd have to assume it was a similar case there as well.

Ron Lyle was strong enough to put him on his ass (or flat down on his face I should say) even when he was still pretty fresh.

I actually agree with you that Foreman's going down against Ali and Young was stamina related and not so much a question of chin... But the reason I referenced those two examples is because people are linking Lyle's sole KO win over a top rater in Shavers, with his two knockdowns of Foreman, and somehow transcending that into a reason for picking Shavers over Cooney... Wtf???

[SaadOffTheDeck]

That doesn't address my points about Cooney being in a far worse position than Spinks was and btw Spinks was interviewed in 1987 and said that he wore knee protection as a "precaution" but that his knees were fine.. As for that punching bag, he certainly hit Spinks with some good shots, which wasn't bad for being a semi retired guy with a tire around his waste.

I addressed what made me laugh to someone else who finds you comical. Cooney was worse than Spinks everyday of his life, including that one.

[drunkenpiper36]

OK, so you haven't actually seen those two fights either.

I saw Ali fight Foreman and only clips of Young vs Foreman.. I don't see you refuting anything here except arrogantly crossing your arms and shouting accusations of boxrec surfing. What fights have you seen?

[drunkenpiper36]

That doesn't address my points about Cooney being in a far worse position than Spinks was and btw Spinks was interviewed in 1987 and said that he wore knee protection as a "precaution" but that his knees were fine.. As for that punching bag, he certainly hit Spinks with some good shots, which wasn't bad for being a semi retired guy with a tire around his waste.

I addressed what made me laugh to someone else who finds you comical. Cooney was worse than Spinks everyday of his life, including that one.

You've addressed nothing.. As usual you avoid what you can't refute.

[drunkenpiper36]

That doesn't address my points about Cooney being in a far worse position than Spinks was and btw Spinks was interviewed in 1987 and said that he wore knee protection as a "precaution" but that his knees were fine.. As for that punching bag, he certainly hit Spinks with some good shots, which wasn't bad for being a semi retired guy with a tire around his waste.

I addressed what made me laugh to someone else who finds you comical. Cooney was worse than Spinks everyday of his life, including that one.

How many times are you going to change the wording of your posts? If you think this sounds more clever than the last, you're mistaken.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

That doesn't address my points about Cooney being in a far worse position than Spinks was and btw Spinks was interviewed in 1987 and said that he wore knee protection as a "precaution" but that his knees were fine.. As for that punching bag, he certainly hit Spinks with some good shots, which wasn't bad for being a semi retired guy with a tire around his waste.

I addressed what made me laugh to someone else who finds you comical. Cooney was worse than Spinks everyday of his life, including that one.

You've addressed nothing.. As usual you avoid what you can't refute.

I avoid going on and on with a Cooney nuthugger. If you want to learn something and have questions, ask away.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

That doesn't address my points about Cooney being in a far worse position than Spinks was and btw Spinks was interviewed in 1987 and said that he wore knee protection as a "precaution" but that his knees were fine.. As for that punching bag, he certainly hit Spinks with some good shots, which wasn't bad for being a semi retired guy with a tire around his waste.

I addressed what made me laugh to someone else who finds you comical. Cooney was worse than Spinks everyday of his life, including that one.

How many times are you going to change the wording of your posts? If you think this sounds more clever than the last, you're mistaken.

That's the same exact thing you quoted.

[drunkenpiper36]

That's the same exact thing you quoted.

Nice try, but I caught the edit before it changed

[The Great John L]

I actually agree with you that Foreman's going down against Ali and Young was stamina related and not so much a question of chin... But the reason I referenced those two examples is because people are linking Lyle's sole KO win over a top rater in Shavers, with his two knockdowns of Foreman, and somehow transcending that into a reason for picking Shavers over Cooney... Wtf???

This guy is all over the place.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

That's the same exact thing you quoted.

Nice try, but I caught the edit before it changed

Of course you did. That's why they're quoted exactly the same. If you were telling the truth, they wouldn't.

[drunkenpiper36]

I actually agree with you that Foreman's going down against Ali and Young was stamina related and not so much a question of chin... But the reason I referenced those two examples is because people are linking Lyle's sole KO win over a top rater in Shavers, with his two knockdowns of Foreman, and somehow transcending that into a reason for picking Shavers over Cooney... Wtf???

This guy is all over the place.

Nah.. I'm fine.. At least I've addressed your arguments directly and successfully managed to do it without insult. Next time you reply to a post of mine at least come up with something sensible..

Have a good day.

[drunkenpiper36]

That's the same exact thing you quoted.

Nice try, but I caught the edit before it changed

Of course you did. That's why they're quoted exactly the same. If you were telling the truth, they wouldn't.

Wtf would anyone "lie" about something like that? You made a smart ass half wit response and then edited it because you were insecure.. You know you did. Live with it.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Nice try, but I caught the edit before it changed

Of course you did. That's why they're quoted exactly the same. If you were telling the truth, they wouldn't.

Wtf would anyone "lie" about something like that? You made a smart ass half wit response and then edited it because you were insecure.. You know you did. Live with it.

I don't know why you would lie about that. I don't know why you're obsessed with Cooney, argue with emoticons, or discuss fights you've never seen either. I'm here to talk about Boxing and have fun, not to psycho analyze the likes of you.

EDIT: I corrected a grammatical error, take me to court.

[drunkenpiper36]

I don't know why you would lie about that. I don't know why you're obsessed with Cooney, argue with emoticons, or discuss fights you've never seen either. I'm here to talk about Boxing and have fun, not to psycho analyze the likes of you.

What fights do you think I've never seen ( aside from the ones that admitted that I haven't )?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I don't know why you would lie about that. I don't know why you're obsessed with Cooney, argue with emoticons, or discuss fights you've never seen either. I'm here to talk about Boxing and have fun, not to psycho analyze the likes of you.

What fights do you think I've never seen ( aside from the ones that admitted that I haven't )?

[The Great John L]

OK, so you haven't actually seen those two fights either.

I saw Ali fight Foreman and only clips of Young vs Foreman.. I don't see you refuting anything here except arrogantly crossing your arms and shouting accusations of boxrec surfing. What fights have you seen?

I've been a boxing fan since the mid 60's when my father started taking me to local shows here in NE Ohio. We even attended a number of Shavers early fights when he was truly crude and learning and watched all of his televised fights as they happened. He wasn't perfect, but he was a fighter that paid his dues in many tough club fights and then went on to beat a few world class HWs. Cooney was a hype job who had a very short career and never devloped beyond a prospect.

You've done a fine job of pulling "facts" from boxrec and painting yourself into a corner while clearly never even watching fights that you're referencing. Yes, Shavers lost a number of fights by stoppage, but other than the Quarry fight the stoppages were all after he was exhausted. It's difficult to respond to your posts because it's so clear that you really don't have much of a basis for your opinions. I'm grateful that you're a boxing fan of sorts, but the arrogance is your inability to acknowledge that you're out of your league in these discussions.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I've been a boxing fan since the mid 60's when my father started taking me to local shows here in NE Ohio. We even attended a number of Shavers early fights when he was truly crude and learning and watched all of his televised fights as they happened. He wasn't perfect, but he was a fighter that paid his dues in many tough club fights and then went on to beat a few world class HWs. Cooney was a hype job who had a very short career and never devloped beyond a prospect.

You've done a fine job of pulling "facts" from boxrec and painting yourself into a corner while clearly never even watching fights that you're referencing. Yes, Shavers lost a number of fights by stoppage, but other than the Quarry fight the stoppages were all after he was exhausted. It's difficult to respond to your posts because it's so clear that you really don't have much of a basis for your opinions. I'm grateful that you're a boxing fan of sorts, but the arrogance is your inability to acknowledge that you're out of your league in these discussions.

I'm a bit younger but my first live fight was George Chaplin and Shavers.

[The Great John L]

I've been a boxing fan since the mid 60's when my father started taking me to local shows here in NE Ohio. We even attended a number of Shavers early fights when he was truly crude and learning and watched all of his televised fights as they happened. He wasn't perfect, but he was a fighter that paid his dues in many tough club fights and then went on to beat a few world class HWs. Cooney was a hype job who had a very short career and never devloped beyond a prospect.

You've done a fine job of pulling "facts" from boxrec and painting yourself into a corner while clearly never even watching fights that you're referencing. Yes, Shavers lost a number of fights by stoppage, but other than the Quarry fight the stoppages were all after he was exhausted. It's difficult to respond to your posts because it's so clear that you really don't have much of a basis for your opinions. I'm grateful that you're a boxing fan of sorts, but the arrogance is your inability to acknowledge that you're out of your league in these discussions.

I'm a bit younger but my first live fight was George Chaplin and Shavers.

Not one of Ernie's notable performances, but it's a safe bet to say that he was shot at that point. Interestingly, I was no fann of Ernies after seeing maybe half a dozen of his early fights because he was so crude and gassed so quickly. He actually developed pretty good skills but his stamina was always a problem. His chin was actually quite good, unfortunately most seem to be judging his chin on the fact that he got stopped a few times without understanding how he got stopped.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I've been a boxing fan since the mid 60's when my father started taking me to local shows here in NE Ohio. We even attended a number of Shavers early fights when he was truly crude and learning and watched all of his televised fights as they happened. He wasn't perfect, but he was a fighter that paid his dues in many tough club fights and then went on to beat a few world class HWs. Cooney was a hype job who had a very short career and never devloped beyond a prospect.

You've done a fine job of pulling "facts" from boxrec and painting yourself into a corner while clearly never even watching fights that you're referencing. Yes, Shavers lost a number of fights by stoppage, but other than the Quarry fight the stoppages were all after he was exhausted. It's difficult to respond to your posts because it's so clear that you really don't have much of a basis for your opinions. I'm grateful that you're a boxing fan of sorts, but the arrogance is your inability to acknowledge that you're out of your league in these discussions.

I'm a bit younger but my first live fight was George Chaplin and Shavers.

Not one of Ernie's notable performances, but it's a safe bet to say that he was shot at that point.

Yeah, he was done, but my Dad and I were both big fans. Chaplin was, incidentally, Cooney's finest performance imo. He didn't have a punch, but blowing him out was impressive.

[drunkenpiper36]

I've been a boxing fan since the mid 60's when my father started taking me to local shows here in NE Ohio. We even attended a number of Shavers early fights when he was truly crude and learning and watched all of his televised fights as they happened. He wasn't perfect, but he was a fighter that paid his dues in many tough club fights and then went on to beat a few world class HWs. Cooney was a hype job who had a very short career and never devloped beyond a prospect.

You've done a fine job of pulling "facts" from boxrec and painting yourself into a corner while clearly never even watching fights that you're referencing. Yes, Shavers lost a number of fights by stoppage, but other than the Quarry fight the stoppages were all after he was exhausted. It's difficult to respond to your posts because it's so clear that you really don't have much of a basis for your opinions. I'm grateful that you're a boxing fan of sorts, but the arrogance is your inability to acknowledge that you're out of your league in these discussions.

I would feel much more out of my league if you addressed my arguments directly which you haven't. And I swear that I have seen the fights that I claimed to have seen, and already listed the ones I haven't, but somehow you keep avoiding that point and many others.

Anyway, by you making this comment: "but other than the Quarry fight", you're ignoring part of his career. Can I do the same and say :"but other than the Foreman fight, Cooney was never stopped early by a big punch" ? Not if I want to be taken seriously..

Now, trying to keep this friendly, I want to reference the first post that I made to this thread which you jumped down my throat about which was: "If Shavers lands his signature right hand on the temple of Cooney, its all over.. But if Gerry is the one who who gets his guns off firt, then Shavers is screwed. Earnie did well against boxers, but against guys who could really hurt him and early, he would have been f-cked most of the time."

Now, responding to those words, and those words ONLY. Can you name an instance in which a man of Cooney's fast starting ability and punching power had him in trouble early and Shavers recovered to win? Also note, that I acknowledged Shaver's chances of knocking out Cooney too just in case you're wondering if I am partial to one or the other.

[The Great John L]

Yeah, he was done, but my Dad and I were both big fans. Chaplin was, incidentally, Cooney's finest performance imo. He didn't have a punch, but blowing him out was impressive.

Chaplin was a pretty good fighter.