Marvin Hagler - the most overrated boxer of all time

[Croydon1]

power but no skill

[mattyp151]

Lock it!!!

[Croydon1]

Mattypbrain, I'm entitled to my opinion and it is open for discussion so shut your pbrain down

[mattyp151]

Your reasoning of "power but no skill" is not only completely ludicrous, but it has no explanation of his no skill.

PLease, go on and entertain us with your ideas of Hagler having no skill.

[klompton]

I think his power and skills are overrated. He was a good fighter dont get me wrong but some think he was some sort of super man because he looked like a bad ass. He looked like it but the problem was he rarely fought like it. People today remember him for his ferocious wars with Mugabi and Hearns (both coming up in weight to fight him) but forget his lukewarm, less than passionate efforts against Leonard, Antuofermo, Briscoe, Roldan, Duran, and others. There was a reason he wasnt super popular during his reign and it wasnt because he was a black lefty as he always said. It was because he ran hot and cold so much in regards to the fire in his belly.

[mattyp151]

Haha, overrated power and skills. The man had 52 KOs, with quite a few against very very good boxers.

Hearns went up 5 pounds to fight Hagler, and stayed at that weight for the following fight. No one would ever say Hearns doesn't have the power to compete at a higher weight class, the man is 47 still knocking people out.

Less than passionate vs Leonard? Maybe because he was getting older and slower and Leonard was an extremely crafty and quick boxer. Leonard danced the first 6 rounds of that fight, and still lost 1 or 2 (or should've), and none of his punches did any damage to hagler, they just sounded nice hitting his elbows. Hagler stormed through the second half of that fight, and should've won it.

Antuofermo he KOed in 5, how much passion did he need to exhibit. I guess they would only be happy with a 2nd round KO vs a guy with 46 wins.

Bennie Briscoe had 60 career wins, yet you play him off like a chump. The man was a terrific boxer. Duran as well can fall into this category. The guy beat Sugar Ray, but you make him off as a tomato can with Hagler...makes perfect sense.

I will admit he struggled mightily with Roldan, yet still managed a 10th round TKO.

So, where in there does he seem overrated at all?

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

please go watch hagler at his peak 77-82

particulary fights vs minter, hamsho I, monroe III, vito II


u will see incredible all around skill






- people think hagler was a brawler just because they watch his fights at the end of his career, but hagler in the late 70 was more a boxer and a damm good one

[witherspoon]

Croydon boy, could you please confirm your opinion of MMH as 'Most Overrated Of All Time'
First consider:
Mr Naseem Hamed, compared himself to Ali and some Brits swallowed it.
Mr Frank Bruno, idolised by a nation when he was not fit to be in the same country as the best Heavys of his own generation.
CALZAGHE
If Marvin was overrated, then I suppose you think that Alan Minter was a right bum, eh? I mean, Marvin turned him into mincemeat inside of three rounds.
Tony Sibson?
Kevin Finnegan?
Were they all overrated?
Go on, be a typical Brit and make excuses for their losses to MMH.
Go on. You know you want to.

[ShoeShine]

Croydon sir could u please give us a basis for your arguement please

[theone]

power but no skill

Actually Haglar had very good boxing skills but his power is overrated. Haglar was a technically sound southpaw who had a good but not great punch. Hearns and Mugabi punched alot harder than him, but Hearns chin was iron. It's what allowed him to stand in an opponents range and take their shot while landing his own.

Less than passionate vs Leonard? Maybe because he was getting older and slower and Leonard was an extremely crafty and quick boxer. Leonard danced the first 6 rounds of that fight, and still lost 1 or 2 (or should've), and none of his punches did any damage to hagler, they just sounded nice hitting his elbows. Hagler stormed through the second half of that fight, and should've won it.

People excuse his lost to Leonard by saying he was past his prime. But he was still dominant and fairly active. Loenard handnt fought at all for three years and was fighting two wieghts above his best. The most Hagler accomplished in that fight was maybe a draw. He did not beat Leonard who was an all-time better, smarter and greater fighter than Haglar.

[mattyp151]

Hearns had an iron chin, as you said, but got KOed by Hagler in 3. The guy stepped in at 40-1 and got pummeled by a charging Hagler. At no point in that fight as soon as Hearns hit Hagler about 8 seconds into the fight, was that match a boxing match of any sort.

Those two just punched away till someone fell. Guy had an Iron chin and got rattled and you say hagler's power is overrated.

[JC]

Croydon boy, could you please confirm your opinion of MMH as 'Most Overrated Of All Time'
First consider:
Mr Naseem Hamed, compared himself to Ali and some Brits swallowed it.
Mr Frank Bruno, idolised by a nation when he was not fit to be in the same country as the best Heavys of his own generation.
CALZAGHE
If Marvin was overrated, then I suppose you think that Alan Minter was a right bum, eh? I mean, Marvin turned him into mincemeat inside of three rounds.
Tony Sibson?
Kevin Finnegan?
Were they all overrated?
Go on, be a typical Brit and make excuses for their losses to MMH.
Go on. You know you want to.

What has any of that got to do with anything?

Mr Naseem Hamed, compared himself to Ali and some Brits swallowed it.

If they did they would have been ones with little or no boxing knowledge

Re: the origninal satement "Power but no skill" is imo, REDICULOUS

[jamesmcdonnell]

Leonard had the perfect style to beat Hagler, and he knew hagler was slipping. It's also well known that Leonard was never out of the gym during his retirement, and lets not forget that Leonard is an all time great in his own right.

Hagler early in his career was more boxer than puncher, and he could in fact box out of either stance, he had far better than average boxing skills, but once he became champion, he vowed he wouldn't lose a fight on the scorecards

He did show Duran perhaps an inordinate amount of respect, because he seemed a little tentative in that bout, but Duran's counterpunching skills and highly crafty inside work made the fight very difficult.

He wasn't the most powerful of middleweights, but physically was immensely strong, against Hearns, he showed just how hard he could hit and how good his chin was, because Hearns hit him with everything but the kitchen sink and after the 1st couldn't make even make a dent.

Marvin wasn't the hardest puncher, but he punched plenty hard, he wasn't the best boxer, but he sure had skills, he may not have had the best overall skills, but fornicate me, could he fight.

[theone]

Hearns had an iron chin, as you said, but got KOed by Hagler in 3

Ooops! I meant Haglars chin was iron.

[rufus payne]

Hagler is one of the all time greats....

[witherspoon]

Croydon boy, could you please confirm your opinion of MMH as 'Most Overrated Of All Time'
First consider:
Mr Naseem Hamed, compared himself to Ali and some Brits swallowed it.
Mr Frank Bruno, idolised by a nation when he was not fit to be in the same country as the best Heavys of his own generation.
CALZAGHE
If Marvin was overrated, then I suppose you think that Alan Minter was a right bum, eh? I mean, Marvin turned him into mincemeat inside of three rounds.
Tony Sibson?
Kevin Finnegan?
Were they all overrated?
Go on, be a typical Brit and make excuses for their losses to MMH.
Go on. You know you want to.

What has any of that got to do with anything?

Maybe not much, but I always look for the anti -brit angle.

Mr Naseem Hamed, compared himself to Ali and some Brits swallowed it.

If they did they would have been ones with little or no boxing knowledge

Re: the origninal satement "Power but no skill" is imo, REDICULOUS

[mattyp151]

Leonard had the perfect style to beat Hagler, and he knew hagler was slipping. It's also well known that Leonard was never out of the gym during his retirement, and lets not forget that Leonard is an all time great in his own right.

Hagler early in his career was more boxer than puncher, and he could in fact box out of either stance, he had far better than average boxing skills, but once he became champion, he vowed he wouldn't lose a fight on the scorecards

He did show Duran perhaps an inordinate amount of respect, because he seemed a little tentative in that bout, but Duran's counterpunching skills and highly crafty inside work made the fight very difficult.

He wasn't the most powerful of middleweights, but physically was immensely strong, against Hearns, he showed just how hard he could hit and how good his chin was, because Hearns hit him with everything but the kitchen sink and after the 1st couldn't make even make a dent.

Marvin wasn't the hardest puncher, but he punched plenty hard, he wasn't the best boxer, but he sure had skills, he may not have had the best overall skills, but fornicate me, could he fight.

James, I think you mean that Hagler said he wouldn't ever let the judges decide a fight as long as he could keep it from happening. He said that after he lost to Monroe. He was pissed because he lost in Philly twice, both to Philadelphia based guys, both by suspect decisions. He was pretty good at keeping his word too, 13 of his next 15 were KOs.

[KOJOE90]

Maybe not much, but I always look for the anti -brit angle.

Why? What have got against people like me?

[wolverine1]

This Croydon guy is a piece of work. Blasts Hagler as over-rated, states it's his opinion, but doesn't back it up with anything.

[kick asner]

I beleive just the opposite and thought that Hagler was a very underated fighter. He didn't even get a title shot until he had fifty five fights. I would have to ask the question to anyone who thinks he is overated, what middleweights of his day were better?

[silkov]

Croydon boy, could you please confirm your opinion of MMH as 'Most Overrated Of All Time'
First consider:
Mr Naseem Hamed, compared himself to Ali and some Brits swallowed it.
Mr Frank Bruno, idolised by a nation when he was not fit to be in the same country as the best Heavys of his own generation.
CALZAGHE
If Marvin was overrated, then I suppose you think that Alan Minter was a right bum, eh? I mean, Marvin turned him into mincemeat inside of three rounds.
Tony Sibson?
Kevin Finnegan?
Were they all overrated?
Go on, be a typical Brit and make excuses for their losses to MMH.
Go on. You know you want to.

Why make this into an anti Brit thread?.. :x . how American of you.. .

[silkov]

Mattypbrain, I'm entitled to my opinion and it is open for discussion so shut your pbrain down

Opinions are like bottoms, everyones got one mate!. Where's your argument?... why is Hagler overrated?... is it his 7 years as a dominant world champion of a talented division that leaves you unmoved?.
Is it that he didn't have much hair?.
Have you even seen any of his fights?...
As you say, you're entitled to your opinion but I'm also entitled to say you don't know what you're talking about...

[silkov]

Maybe not much, but I always look for the anti -brit angle.

Why? What have got against people like me?

Don't worry he's from Croydon, so that doesn't really count as British really... 8)

[Nile4000]

The only beef I have with Marvin is the Duran fight.I could not see Monzon letting Roberto last fifteen.

[silkov]

The only beef I have with Marvin is the Duran fight.I could not see Monzon letting Roberto last fifteen.

He was wary of getting into a war with Duran... and right too, look what happened when Barkely slugged it out with Duran. I think a fit Duran would have gone the distance with Monzon too...