allot is far more astute then Willis mate. Willis just prrattles out the same old diatribe.
you dont have to be a great player to be a great reader of the game.
mike brearley being a prime example. Guess we won agree on this one then.
Off topic: Crickett
That end of innings collapse was terrible but we're looking in good shape at the moment. Our bowling is good, and we could get them out somewhere close to our total. When you consider England threw most of their wickets away and the Pakistan wickets were taken more through actual endeavour then England could be in good shape if they can bat well second innings. The Pakistani analyst guy I forget his name made a good point, he said England need a steady Mark Butcher type at 3 or 4 as they're all strokeplayers in there and they need someone steady who can build an innings. Could not agree more!!
Someone in that mould would be good, too many swashbucklers in the top/middle order.J wrote:dont think they will pick butch agian now, when i met him last year his arm was pinned and in plaster, reckon he is done at int level, which is a shame.
fornicating top lad tho, nudge more than a couple of bottles of red with the fella, very easy going jovial and funny.
nickd wrote:Someone in that mould would be good, too many swashbucklers in the top/middle order.J wrote:dont think they will pick butch agian now, when i met him last year his arm was pinned and in plaster, reckon he is done at int level, which is a shame.
fornicating top lad tho, nudge more than a couple of bottles of red with the fella, very easy going jovial and funny.
Not too many swashbucklers - we have potential swashbucklers in Colly, Vaughan, Flintoff, Tresco, but these guys ALL can bat sensibly and for long periods without giving chances.
Bell can bat sensibly for long periods whilst giving chances.
Pietersen gets bored. He either scores or he doesn't. Sometimes it comes off, but he's also a liability.
I actually don't think Pietersen will be All That, especially away from home. He won't get the adulation he feeds off. Great that he performed in the Ashes but that was a really special series - Pietersen may never play in a series like that again. Picking a guy up to play post-Ashes-as-debut when he's such an ego-based performer must be very, very difficult. He copes when he's centre of attention. When he's not, he loses concentration. Evidence dropped catches, silly shots to give away his wicket.
Not denying his talent at all but he needs to show a bit more Boycott before he can become a viable top order batsman.
Exactly what I said earlier in the thread, Pietersen is all good in the test side at home but away from home keep him in the one dayers but look at someone else in the tests.Coconut wrote:nickd wrote:Someone in that mould would be good, too many swashbucklers in the top/middle order.J wrote:dont think they will pick butch agian now, when i met him last year his arm was pinned and in plaster, reckon he is done at int level, which is a shame.
fornicating top lad tho, nudge more than a couple of bottles of red with the fella, very easy going jovial and funny.
Not too many swashbucklers - we have potential swashbucklers in Colly, Vaughan, Flintoff, Tresco, but these guys ALL can bat sensibly and for long periods without giving chances.
Bell can bat sensibly for long periods whilst giving chances.
Pietersen gets bored. He either scores or he doesn't. Sometimes it comes off, but he's also a liability.
I actually don't think Pietersen will be All That, especially away from home. He won't get the adulation he feeds off. Great that he performed in the Ashes but that was a really special series - Pietersen may never play in a series like that again. Picking a guy up to play post-Ashes-as-debut when he's such an ego-based performer must be very, very difficult. He copes when he's centre of attention. When he's not, he loses concentration. Evidence dropped catches, silly shots to give away his wicket.
Not denying his talent at all but he needs to show a bit more Boycott before he can become a viable top order batsman.
Oh dear was I wrong. 440-5 they are absolutely caning us, we'll do well to get a draw here!nickd wrote:That end of innings collapse was terrible but we're looking in good shape at the moment. Our bowling is good, and we could get them out somewhere close to our total. When you consider England threw most of their wickets away and the Pakistan wickets were taken more through actual endeavour then England could be in good shape if they can bat well second innings. The Pakistani analyst guy I forget his name made a good point, he said England need a steady Mark Butcher type at 3 or 4 as they're all strokeplayers in there and they need someone steady who can build an innings. Could not agree more!!
he is next in i thinkjamesmcdonnell wrote:jesus!
well what can you say other than you cant go to the sub continent without a spinner. And we dont have one, the aussies would have chucked the ball to warne and mcgill and that owuld have been that.
Pakistan are just on for a par score, we batted like twats Colly apart, Vaughan bell, freddie , KP, Jones, they all threw their wickets away.
Tressie was unlucky.
but you cant do that and expect to win.
COuld be a good thuing this though, we may go for a young spinner now, and stick with him cos the two we have at the moment are dog shit.
Id give Louden a go or Keedy (who is the best spin bowler in England but he cant bat or field), at least they spin the ball.
I think they should give Louden a go and give him time. Giles and Udal have done jack shit we may aswell have played 5 seamers in this series. Dead right about a par score, this is a 500 run wicket especially first and second day. Pakistan are doing it on days 2 and 3!J wrote:he is next in i thinkjamesmcdonnell wrote:jesus!
well what can you say other than you cant go to the sub continent without a spinner. And we dont have one, the aussies would have chucked the ball to warne and mcgill and that owuld have been that.
Pakistan are just on for a par score, we batted like twats Colly apart, Vaughan bell, freddie , KP, Jones, they all threw their wickets away.
Tressie was unlucky.
but you cant do that and expect to win.
COuld be a good thuing this though, we may go for a young spinner now, and stick with him cos the two we have at the moment are dog shit.
Id give Louden a go or Keedy (who is the best spin bowler in England but he cant bat or field), at least they spin the ball.
Sorry lads missed this mornings play I was getting my end away. Scorecard looks like a real shambles.
In the big scheme of things could be a good thing for England, they were obviously believing their own publicity too much and they certainly threw this match down the tubes with that first innings. They can regroup now though, you dont become a bad team overnight.
In the big scheme of things could be a good thing for England, they were obviously believing their own publicity too much and they certainly threw this match down the tubes with that first innings. They can regroup now though, you dont become a bad team overnight.
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Collins2000
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Unless you are the Australian rugby union side...nickd wrote:Sorry lads missed this mornings play I was getting my end away. Scorecard looks like a real shambles.
In the big scheme of things could be a good thing for England, they were obviously believing their own publicity too much and they certainly threw this match down the tubes with that first innings. They can regroup now though, you dont become a bad team overnight.
That was a gradual slide though, Collins. I don't think they were that good a side at the '03 World Cup, they made the final by beating a massively overrated All Blacks team. And with a northern hemisphere ref, the final wouldn't have been close. That Aussie pack has been getting away with it for a good few years, they really aren't good enough to compete.
No excuses for Vaughan's men though: We were totally outplayed from the moment we set foot in Pakistan. We need to perform well in India, or the accusations that we peaked in the summer will be totally justified. At the moment we have too many batsmen playing too many flash strokes, we don't have a match-winning spinner, and we don't have a seam bowling attack with the consistency that, say, McGrath an Gillespie had for years.
What we do have is the worlds best allrounder, although he didn't set the world on fire in Pakistan. Too much is being asked of Flintoff right now. He can win games on his own, certainly. But he can't be asked to carry a team every day. Flintoff has been our most consistant bowler for the last 2 years, he's let Harmison have a few off days, for example. But he can't be asked to paper over the cracks in both the bowling and the batting. And our batting was woeful.
No excuses for Vaughan's men though: We were totally outplayed from the moment we set foot in Pakistan. We need to perform well in India, or the accusations that we peaked in the summer will be totally justified. At the moment we have too many batsmen playing too many flash strokes, we don't have a match-winning spinner, and we don't have a seam bowling attack with the consistency that, say, McGrath an Gillespie had for years.
What we do have is the worlds best allrounder, although he didn't set the world on fire in Pakistan. Too much is being asked of Flintoff right now. He can win games on his own, certainly. But he can't be asked to carry a team every day. Flintoff has been our most consistant bowler for the last 2 years, he's let Harmison have a few off days, for example. But he can't be asked to paper over the cracks in both the bowling and the batting. And our batting was woeful.
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Collins2000
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states wrote:That was a gradual slide though, Collins. I don't think they were that good a side at the '03 World Cup, they made the final by beating a massively overrated All Blacks team. And with a northern hemisphere ref, the final wouldn't have been close. That Aussie pack has been getting away with it for a good few years, they really aren't good enough to compete.
No excuses for Vaughan's men though: We were totally outplayed from the moment we set foot in Pakistan. We need to perform well in India, or the accusations that we peaked in the summer will be totally justified. At the moment we have too many batsmen playing too many flash strokes, we don't have a match-winning spinner, and we don't have a seam bowling attack with the consistency that, say, McGrath an Gillespie had for years.
What we do have is the worlds best allrounder, although he didn't set the world on fire in Pakistan. Too much is being asked of Flintoff right now. He can win games on his own, certainly. But he can't be asked to carry a team every day. Flintoff has been our most consistant bowler for the last 2 years, he's let Harmison have a few off days, for example. But he can't be asked to paper over the cracks in both the bowling and the batting. And our batting was woeful.
You may have a point, but 8 losses in 9 games seems a bit more than gradual to me. Anyway, now Jones is gone we should see some of the dead wood following him. He was too close to some of the players to be objective I feel.
Good comments on the England team. And The Ashes will be restored to their rightful owners before too long unless they can improve on that pathetic effort.
Inzie looked great though. Like a big fat sleepy bear playing the England attack like they were school kids.
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pundit
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CMJ on Test Match Special this morning was musing about what happens if Vaughan and Tresco are back for the next test, and you've got to bin two of Shah, Bell and Collingwood. Nobody was advocated (although it'd be monumentally tough on Colly to drop him) but it was brought up that Bell is very much helped in that he's a specialist close-bat fielder, and nobody else in the squad really fills that role, presumably because they have too much common sense.
But I agree. Bell's been really unconvincing
But I agree. Bell's been really unconvincing
He won't get in on fielding alone, Collingwood is just as good a fielder and could do a job up close and has been far more convincing than Bell with the bat. Vaughan and Tresco in place of Shah and Bell and you have a formidable batting lineup! Is Vaughan going to get the captaincy back off Flintoff though? I'm not convinced he should I think its time to hand it to Flintoff full time.Coconut wrote:CMJ on Test Match Special this morning was musing about what happens if Vaughan and Tresco are back for the next test, and you've got to bin two of Shah, Bell and Collingwood. Nobody was advocated (although it'd be monumentally tough on Colly to drop him) but it was brought up that Bell is very much helped in that he's a specialist close-bat fielder, and nobody else in the squad really fills that role, presumably because they have too much common sense.
But I agree. Bell's been really unconvincing
You can't drop Colly but it will happen
Shah and Bell are more 'classical' players paly for more fashionable counties and Colly will make way as he is an 'all round good egg'
Some of the press coverage about Colly over the years has been scandalous - he IS a test quality batsman who like anybody else needed time to bed in.
Funny story from Pakistan - before his scores of 90 and 80 Boycs had been banging on about how Colly is no good bla bla bla. Then after the scores Boycs went to congratulate him and Colly tells him to f u c k off allegedly.
If Colly is dropped in the summer and Bell plays then its a disgrace
Shah and Bell are more 'classical' players paly for more fashionable counties and Colly will make way as he is an 'all round good egg'
Some of the press coverage about Colly over the years has been scandalous - he IS a test quality batsman who like anybody else needed time to bed in.
Funny story from Pakistan - before his scores of 90 and 80 Boycs had been banging on about how Colly is no good bla bla bla. Then after the scores Boycs went to congratulate him and Colly tells him to f u c k off allegedly.
If Colly is dropped in the summer and Bell plays then its a disgrace