Forming a Semi-Pro Boxing Organization

[HomicideHenry]

I do not know necessarily how this is done here in America. To set up an amateur club, you have to go through USA Boxing. To turn pro is as simple as getting a Federal ID. Yet, I have not heard anyone really discuss how one can do Semi-Pro boxing shows--- I know the WSB is through the AIBA and being governed by that body--- but there are tons of Semi-Pro promotions like "Made Men" which is run out of Pennsylvania and of course, one can argue that Art Dore's Toughman Contest is also Semi-Pro boxing.

I know over in Ireland and England, most bars or clubs have 'entertainment' licenses which covers boxing, and hypothetically anyone with a boxing ring and couple pairs of gloves can put on shows with anyone competing in them. Is it as simple as that here in America, that you can just rent out a hall and rent a ring and put on a show? Or what procedures is there to really follow, because this is somewhat uncharted territory here in boxing.

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Jesus bless.

[ABC BOXING]

SEMI PRO MUST GET PAID OR ELSE IT ISN'T SEMI PRO SO WITH ANY KIND OF ASSISTANCE GIVEN IT WOULD BE PRO AND MUST BE REGULATED BY EACH STATE COMMISSION AND THAT INVOLVES ABC. WHICH MEANS YOU CAN CALL IT WHAT YOU WANT AND PROMOTE AS SEMI PRO BUT THEY WILL HAVE PROFESSIONAL CREDENTIALS. WHAT IS THE POINT OF CALLING IT SEMI PRO? SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY THEM? IF THEY DON'T GET ANY COMPENSATION THEY WILL BE CONSIDERED AMATEUR WHICH MEANS THEY ARE NOT USA BOXING REGISTERED BUT DO IN MANY STATE HAVE TO GET PERMISSION FRON LOCAL COMMISSIONS FOR AN EVENT PERMITT.

[HomicideHenry]

If I am not mistaken, the laws concerning clubs and organizations that promote club fights, are seperate from a governing body ran by the state. As long as viewers have membership cards, and the only 'purse' involved is covering training expenses of the two participants, by and large this is not the business of the ABC or state commission. I mean, after all, no one needs a license to spar or have an exhibition in a gym--- or have an event permit. So by my logic, one can run shows out of their own gym, with their own stable, without having to be apart of USA Boxing or be under the thumb of a state commission. Only if you want amateur/pro status would you have to deal with either one.

[ABC BOXING]

THERE ARE MANY STATES THAT CONTRO; ALL EVENTS AMATEUR AND PRO BUT SOME STATES ALLOW USA TO DO SHOWS. DEPENDS ON WHAT STATE YOUR PLANING YOUR SHOWS. CALIFORNIA, FLORIDA, NEVADA, NEW MEXICO, TEXAS ARE STATES I KNOW THAT DON'T ALLOW SHOWS WITHOUT THIER PERMITTS OR EVENT LICENSE. THEIR MIGHT BE SOME MORE STATES. CHECK THE BYLAWS OF THE STATE YOUR TALKING ABOUT.

[Slythex]

One thing to be aware of, is that participating in these 'semi pro' events will actually invalidate your ability to box for USA Boxing as an amateur. That's perhaps fine if you go into this with your eyes open, and made an informed choice. I'm not sure all of the boxers who choose to participate are aware of this, though.

It's not just a matter of saying 'well, I don't care about the olympics or Golden Gloves, so who cares about USA Boxing.' Because what you do is restrict yourself ONLY to these semi pro events, because you aren't eligible to box within the local amateur circle any more.

I think 'Made Men' is West Virginia, since they are around our LBC. I don't know exactly what they are doing, but I hope they are not using amateur boxers because if I find out about it, I'm sort of obliged to do something about it.

[ABC BOXING]

SEMI PRO ARE COMPENSATED ONE WAY OR ANOTHER SO THEY LOSE THEIR AMATEUR STATUS ANYWAY. I HAVE SEEN A FEW DO SHOW BOUTS AND THEY GOT PAID CASH AND THE LOCAL LBC DIDN'T LET THEM FIGHT AMATEUR ANY LONGER WHICH IS THE PROPER THING LBC DONE. EVEN TRAVEL MONEY IS BEING PAID FOR SERVICES. NON SANCTIONED AMATEUR BOUTS SHOULD NOT LOSE THEIR AMATEUR STATUS IN MY OPINION.

[WESTSIDE BOXING]

One thing to be aware of, is that participating in these 'semi pro' events will actually invalidate your ability to box for USA Boxing as an amateur. That's perhaps fine if you go into this with your eyes open, and made an informed choice. I'm not sure all of the boxers who choose to participate are aware of this, though.

It's not just a matter of saying 'well, I don't care about the olympics or Golden Gloves, so who cares about USA Boxing.' Because what you do is restrict yourself ONLY to these semi pro events, because you aren't eligible to box within the local amateur circle any more.

Fighting in a non USA boxing sanctioned amateur boxing event or a Toughman contest does NOT disqualify one from competing in future USA boxing sanctioned bouts.

[WESTSIDE BOXING]

Receiving cash payment however DOES disqualify you though.

[Tarquin Tarpaulin V]

One thing to be aware of, is that participating in these 'semi pro' events will actually invalidate your ability to box for USA Boxing as an amateur. That's perhaps fine if you go into this with your eyes open, and made an informed choice. I'm not sure all of the boxers who choose to participate are aware of this, though.

It's not just a matter of saying 'well, I don't care about the olympics or Golden Gloves, so who cares about USA Boxing.' Because what you do is restrict yourself ONLY to these semi pro events, because you aren't eligible to box within the local amateur circle any more.

Fighting in a non USA boxing sanctioned amateur boxing event or a Toughman contest does NOT disqualify one from competing in future USA boxing sanctioned bouts.

I'm afraid it does!
Anyone that has participated in an individual physical contact sport cannot compete under AIBA rules without first making an application to the eligibility committee. I believe there is a significant fee for doing so.
Nothing to do with payment. This applies to amateurs as well.

[WESTSIDE BOXING]

One thing to be aware of, is that participating in these 'semi pro' events will actually invalidate your ability to box for USA Boxing as an amateur. That's perhaps fine if you go into this with your eyes open, and made an informed choice. I'm not sure all of the boxers who choose to participate are aware of this, though.

It's not just a matter of saying 'well, I don't care about the olympics or Golden Gloves, so who cares about USA Boxing.' Because what you do is restrict yourself ONLY to these semi pro events, because you aren't eligible to box within the local amateur circle any more.

Fighting in a non USA boxing sanctioned amateur boxing event or a Toughman contest does NOT disqualify one from competing in future USA boxing sanctioned bouts.

I'm afraid it does!
Anyone that has participated in an individual physical contact sport cannot compete under AIBA rules without first making an application to the eligibility committee. I believe there is a significant fee for doing so.
Nothing to do with payment. This applies to amateurs as well.

I'm afraid your wrong and misinformed.

Rather then debate back and forth, I will just quote USA Boxing's official rule on the topic.

"Rule 3.4: Any boxer that competes in a non-USA Boxing amateur sanctioned boxing event or in an amateur striking combat sports event is eligible to compete in USA Boxing. Such individuals will not be eligible to compete in the Novice division of USA Boxing."

[Tarquin Tarpaulin V]

All national federations HAVE to comply with AIBAs rules and regulations. You may be getting away with certain things at the moment but trust me it won't last!
Norway has just been suspended for using head guards in their national championships. England has been trying to bring in rule changes that are more in keeping with domestic, particularly novice, competition. The very suggestion of a secondary rulebook brings the threat of suspension again.

[Slythex]

Actually, it's not as cut-and-dried as that:

Here's an excerpt from the Technical Rules:

1. 5. Any boxer who participates in an unsanctioned USA Boxing contest or tournament or in a tough man, wild man, barroom brawl or any similar competition that is never sanctioned by USA Boxing is automatically and immediately terminated or suspended as a member of USA Boxing. Such terminated or suspended boxer may make an appeal for consideration through USA Boxing’s grievance and complaint process.

Here's the Competition Rules that were quoted:

3.4. Any Boxer that competes in a non-USA Boxing amateur sanctioned boxing event or in an amateur striking combat sports event is eligible to compete in USA Boxing.
3.4.1. Individuals who have competed in non-USA Boxing sanctioned amateur boxing events of amateur
striking combat sports must compete in the Open division of their age division for all USA Boxing
sanctioned events.
3.4.2. Such individuals will not be eligible to compete in the Novice division of USA Boxing sanctioned
events.

I think what 3.4 is getting at is allowing MMA athletes to also compete in boxing, but it's in direct conflict with rule 1.5 from Technical rules.

As the expression goes, do you want your boxer to be the test case?

Also, is it really a surprise that the USAB Rulebooks are once again not clear on something?

[edited to correct Technical vs Competition rule designations]

[ABC BOXING]

CONTRADICTION AS ALWAYS WITH RULES IN THE AMATEURS. NO WONDER EVERYONE HAS A DIFFERENT OPINION OF THESE SO CALLED RULES.

[Tarquin Tarpaulin V]

Read the rules on the AIBA website under documents

6. ENFORCING THE STATUTES, OTHER RULES AND DECISIONS
6.1 National Federations, Confederations, AIBA Subsidiaries, Officials,
Boxers and any other person or organization subject to these Statutes
must always comply with these Statutes, the AIBA Bylaws, the AIBA
Technical & Competition Rules, the Code of Ethics, the Disciplinary
Code and Procedural Rules, as well as to the Anti-Doping Rules of the
World Anti-Doping Agency.
6.2 The statutes, constitution or bylaws of all National Federations,
Confederations and AIBA Subsidiaries must explicitly recognize the
obligation created by article 6.1. In furtherance of this obligation,
all National Federations, Confederations and AIBA Subsidiaries must
ensure that there is a specific article in the statutes, constitution or
bylaws governing such National Federations, Confederations and AIBA
Subsidiaries which repeats the provisions of article 6.1 and applies
such provisions to all Officials and Boxers recognized by such National
Federations, Confederations and AIBA Subsidiaries.12
AIBA STATUTES
6.3 In furtherance of article 6.1, each National Federation, Confederation
and AIBA Subsidiary hereby undertakes to AIBA, as a condition of their
recognition as such under these Statutes, to take all such action as is
required to ensure compliance with article 6.1 by any Official or Boxer
affiliated to or recognized by that National Federation, Confederation
or AIBA Subsidiary, including (but not limited to) by enforcing any
decision of the Executive Committee, the Disciplinary Commission or
any other Commission against any such Official or Boxer.

[Tarquin Tarpaulin V]

Here's a couple of other bits...

National Federations that already have an existing professional boxing
program must take steps, such steps to be satisfactory to AIBA, to ensure
that by December 31, 2016 such professional program is subject to the
rules and falls within the structure of APB.

So any Pro-Am gyms or coaches will be expected to make a choice.

[ABC BOXING]

HomicideHenry; IT IS NOT NECCESARY TO FOLLOW AIBA RULES IN AMERICA TO DO PRO AMS IT IS ONLY IF YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR FIGHTERS AS AMATEURS WHICH REALLY ISN'T WORTH FOLLOWING AIBA RULES DUE TO THEIR COMPLECATION OF RULES FOR SUCH PROGRAM BUT IN AMERICA (USA) YOUR SEMI PRO LEAGUE WOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW
ABC Boxing - Association of Boxing Commissions - RULES AND REGULATIONS WHICH MEANS ALL SEMI PROS WOULD HAVE TO BE REGISTERED AND GET FEDERAL ID'S AND PROMOTERS WOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW IT'S STATE BOXING COMMISSION OR NATIVE BOXING COMMISSIONS IF THE SITE IS AT NATIVE CASINOS.
MOST COMMISSIONS WOULD REQUIRE DOCTOR ONSITE, BLOOD WORK, PHYSICALS, BOXERS LICENSE, MINIMUM OF 26 ROUNDS PER SHOW, PLUS PROMOTERS PAY BOND, MEDICAL INSURANCE FOR FIGHTERS AND LICENSE.
MANY STATES ARE REQUIRING THIS THINGS ON UNSANCTIONED AMATEUR SHOWS INCLUDING BOXING AND MMA.EXCEPT FOR AMOUNT OF ROUNDS.

[HomicideHenry]

HomicideHenry; IT IS NOT NECCESARY TO FOLLOW AIBA RULES IN AMERICA TO DO PRO AMS IT IS ONLY IF YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR FIGHTERS AS AMATEURS WHICH REALLY ISN'T WORTH FOLLOWING AIBA RULES DUE TO THEIR COMPLECATION OF RULES FOR SUCH PROGRAM BUT IN AMERICA (USA) YOUR SEMI PRO LEAGUE WOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW
ABC Boxing - Association of Boxing Commissions - RULES AND REGULATIONS WHICH MEANS ALL SEMI PROS WOULD HAVE TO BE REGISTERED AND GET FEDERAL ID'S AND PROMOTERS WOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW IT'S STATE BOXING COMMISSION OR NATIVE BOXING COMMISSIONS IF THE SITE IS AT NATIVE CASINOS.
MOST COMMISSIONS WOULD REQUIRE DOCTOR ONSITE, BLOOD WORK, PHYSICALS, BOXERS LICENSE, MINIMUM OF 26 ROUNDS PER SHOW, PLUS PROMOTERS PAY BOND, MEDICAL INSURANCE FOR FIGHTERS AND LICENSE.
MANY STATES ARE REQUIRING THIS THINGS ON UNSANCTIONED AMATEUR SHOWS INCLUDING BOXING AND MMA.EXCEPT FOR AMOUNT OF ROUNDS.

Thanks.