Some interesting comments compiled from Emanuel Steward and Ray Arcel, who both said Ray Robinson had to be protected. Makes you really appreciate true greats like Lennox Lewis, The Klitschkos, Bernard Hopkins and Joe Calzaghe, who never ever ducked anyone.
http://spam.com/articles/was-su ... ed-fighter
Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
-
montrealsuper
- Cruiserweight
- Posts: 1056
- Joined: 18 Nov 2010, 12:44
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
This article is a joke. A quick look at Robinson's resume shows the guy ducked NOBODY.
-
Controversial
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9152
- Joined: 13 Jul 2002, 18:29
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
Except Charley Burley
-
Ambling Alp II
- Super Middleweight
- Posts: 15097
- Joined: 04 Nov 2012, 18:31
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
That old chestnut has been discredited. They were only rated at the same weight class for a short time.
-
Controversial
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9152
- Joined: 13 Jul 2002, 18:29
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
I'm sure if they wanted to fight Burley it could have been arranged. SRR had a very long career and fought numerous fighters yet as far as I know Burley was never even considered as an opponent.
Burley stated that SRRs manager admitted to him that Ray ducked him.
Burley stated that SRRs manager admitted to him that Ray ducked him.
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
It is a science fiction fact that no one disputes, not even Il Duce, that Calzaghe avoided Ottke, and by doing so forced Ottke to retire.
-
SaadOffTheDeck
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 19602
- Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 07:38
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
Sending in him against giant Middleweights when he was a Welter was some crazy brand of protection.
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
A form that very few are familiar with. Yet if it is said here........it must be so.SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Sending in him against giant Middleweights when he was a Welter was some crazy brand of protection.
On the other hand, to protect a welter from Burley....might not be a bad idea.
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
That's a shocking tidbit of information . . .Controversial wrote:Burley stated that SRRs manager admitted to him that Ray ducked him.
Now, find a published quote of SSR's managers admitting to somebody besides Burley or his people that Robby ducked Burley and you might have something . . .
-
Controversial
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9152
- Joined: 13 Jul 2002, 18:29
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
Burley never held it against SRR. He even admitted there was no money in the fight and said if he (Burley) was champion he wouldn't have risked fighting SRR either. Honest words. You really don't expect SRR team to be on record admitting it do you? Whether SRR would have taken the fight is another thing but his team didn't want it.raylawpc wrote:That's a shocking tidbit of information . . .Controversial wrote:Burley stated that SRRs manager admitted to him that Ray ducked him.
Now, find a published quote of SSR's managers admitting to somebody besides Burley or his people that Robby ducked Burley and you might have something . . .
-
dempseyfire
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5534
- Joined: 29 Oct 2003, 22:56
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
The public were not interested in that fight.Controversial wrote:I'm sure if they wanted to fight Burley it could have been arranged. SRR had a very long career and fought numerous fighters yet as far as I know Burley was never even considered as an opponent.
Burley stated that SRRs manager admitted to him that Ray ducked him.
Seriously anyone who fights a prime Kid Gavilan several times is not "protected", period. That statement about Robinson not being able to handle "jabs" is one of the most retarded things I've ever heard. Charley Fusari and Bobby Dykes were both excellent tall jabbers and Robinson took them to school.
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
Wait a minute. Earlier you wrote, "I'm sure if they wanted to fight Burley it could have been arranged." Now, by Burley's admission there was no money in the fight. (I'm sure you agree since you are taking Charley at his word about everything else.) Why would they have bothered to arrange a fight if there was no money in it? Who would have promoted it if there was no money in it?Controversial wrote:Burley never held it against SRR. He even admitted there was no money in the fight and said if he (Burley) was champion he wouldn't have risked fighting SRR either. Honest words. You really don't expect SRR team to be on record admitting it do you? Whether SRR would have taken the fight is another thing but his team didn't want it.raylawpc wrote:That's a shocking tidbit of information . . .Controversial wrote:Burley stated that SRRs manager admitted to him that Ray ducked him.
Now, find a published quote of SSR's managers admitting to somebody besides Burley or his people that Robby ducked Burley and you might have something . . .
-
Controversial
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9152
- Joined: 13 Jul 2002, 18:29
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
I never said SRR was generally protected but I don't think they wanted Burley. Of course saying "the public" didn't want the fight is a good excuse but that didn't stop SRR having fights with inferior fighters to Burley, were the public crying out for these bouts?dempseyfire wrote:The public were not interested in that fight.Controversial wrote:I'm sure if they wanted to fight Burley it could have been arranged. SRR had a very long career and fought numerous fighters yet as far as I know Burley was never even considered as an opponent.
Burley stated that SRRs manager admitted to him that Ray ducked him.
Seriously anyone who fights a prime Kid Gavilan several times is not "protected", period. That statement about Robinson not being able to handle "jabs" is one of the most retarded things I've ever heard. Charley Fusari and Bobby Dykes were both excellent tall jabbers and Robinson took them to school.
Burley fought from 1936-50
SRR fought from 1940-65 and didn't get a title shot til 1946
Their careers crossed for 10 years, maybe SRR didn't want to risk his title shot by fighting Burley, too risky and with no benefit.
-
Controversial
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9152
- Joined: 13 Jul 2002, 18:29
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
As I said the fight was too risky for SRR, too much to lose and no gain if he won. That's why they steered clear of Burley. I can't say I blame SRRs team.raylawpc wrote:
Wait a minute. Earlier you wrote, "I'm sure if they wanted to fight Burley it could have been arranged." Now, by Burley's admission there was no money in the fight. (I'm sure you agree since you are taking Charley at his word about everything else.) Why would they have bothered to arrange a fight if there was no money in it? Who would have promoted it if there was no money in it?
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
Makes it pretty easy to duck someone when nobody wants to promote the fight . . .Controversial wrote:As I said the fight was too risky for SRR, too much to lose and no gain if he won. That's why they steered clear of Burley. I can't say I blame SRRs team.raylawpc wrote:
Wait a minute. Earlier you wrote, "I'm sure if they wanted to fight Burley it could have been arranged." Now, by Burley's admission there was no money in the fight. (I'm sure you agree since you are taking Charley at his word about everything else.) Why would they have bothered to arrange a fight if there was no money in it? Who would have promoted it if there was no money in it?
Also makes it pretty easy years later to claim somebody ducked you . . .
-
Controversial
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9152
- Joined: 13 Jul 2002, 18:29
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
Whats all this 'no one to promote the fight' argument that keeps cropping up on here? It didn't have to be a title fight, SRR fought on many small bills against nobodies. They could obviously promote those fights no problem. Sorry I don't buy it. Apparently a fight was set for sometime in 1942 but Robinson pulled out, SRR pulled out of two planned fights with Burley. The story was Burley was offered a 3 fight series but was told he had to lose the first fight. If they really wanted to fight Burley they could of, the simple fact is Burley was an avoided man.raylawpc wrote:Makes it pretty easy to duck someone when nobody wants to promote the fight . . .Controversial wrote:As I said the fight was too risky for SRR, too much to lose and no gain if he won. That's why they steered clear of Burley. I can't say I blame SRRs team.raylawpc wrote:
Wait a minute. Earlier you wrote, "I'm sure if they wanted to fight Burley it could have been arranged." Now, by Burley's admission there was no money in the fight. (I'm sure you agree since you are taking Charley at his word about everything else.) Why would they have bothered to arrange a fight if there was no money in it? Who would have promoted it if there was no money in it?
Also makes it pretty easy years later to claim somebody ducked you . . .
Last edited by Controversial on 01 Mar 2014, 16:28, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
What is the source of "the story"? Just curious.
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
Probably one of the many promoters who apparently were willing to promote the fight, even though there was no money in it . . .BoxBuzz wrote:What is the source of "the story"? Just curious.
-
Controversial
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9152
- Joined: 13 Jul 2002, 18:29
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
Yes the source was a local fight promoter but that doesn't get away from the fact they never fought. If money was an issue it was obviously because SRRs team knew it would be a hard fight and they wanted big money in return for the risk. As I said before I don't blame SRRs team, Burley was in the 'who needs him club', he wasn't the most exciting fighter, hard to beat and hard to look good against.
-
Counter-puncher
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 39141
- Joined: 20 May 2008, 11:41
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Sending in him against giant Middleweights when he was a Welter was some crazy brand of protection.
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
Based on this.....doesn't it follow that ANYONE SRR did not fight would fall under this critical point?
He never fought Archie Moore, and yet I never thought to confabulate that he avoided him.
However.....I hereby do so.
He never fought Archie Moore, and yet I never thought to confabulate that he avoided him.
However.....I hereby do so.
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected.
I give absolutely no credibility to this statement. It is absolute tripe.
I give absolutely no credibility to this statement. It is absolute tripe.
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
The foundation of this article is circumstantial "he told me this and another guy told me that" nonsense. Anyone would give it more attention if there were direct quotes from recognised world-class boxing trainers.montrealsuper wrote:http://spam.com/articles/was-su ... ed-fighter
This is the sort of stuff you would expect from a half-wit in a pub.
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
Counter-puncher wrote:SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Sending in him against giant Middleweights when he was a Welter was some crazy brand of protection.
Well said Saad. And I have heard numerous boxing pundits like Bert Sugar, Reg Gutteridge say that Robinson would never have been neaten if he had've stayed at Welterweight.
-
Controversial
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9152
- Joined: 13 Jul 2002, 18:29
Re: Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 08,2141954raylawpc wrote:Probably one of the many promoters who apparently were willing to promote the fight, even though there was no money in it . . .BoxBuzz wrote:What is the source of "the story"? Just curious.