Hopkins vs Taylor Rematch on SKY.
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jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 45229
- Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11
At what weight though? Tarver kills himself to make 175, Hopkins comes in under 160 for most fights, cannot see it being at a catchweight, as Tarver would have to cut an arm of to get under 175....the fight won't happen.KOJOE90 wrote:I hope so to but I have a feeling he may try and get a fight with Tarver. Although the Tarver v Tyson fight that is being talked about would of course put a stop to that I assume.steve689 wrote:I expect Hopkins to retire if he wins, although he will probably have an exhibition in Philadelphia before he goes,
If Hop wins, he should fight the winner of Calzaghe v Lacy or Winky. I think Winky beats him if they fight, and I think at this stage Lacy would be too busy, probably Calzaghe too at this point.
Fancy being in Rocky 6 too while you're there?Loynesy wrote:I'll be at the Bay.....
http://beinamovie.com/movie.php?mtitleid=51
I think the only way Hopkins will fight on will be if he loses. I can't see him retiring if he loses. He won't want to quit with a loss. I think there is more of a chance of him facing Winky if Taylor beats him, as he then has nothing to lose. If Hops wins, I'd expect him to have an exhibition in January against a nobody opponent in Philidelphia and then retire as promised. I hope he wins, Taylor will never be as good as Hops was.jamesmcdonnell wrote:At what weight though? Tarver kills himself to make 175, Hopkins comes in under 160 for most fights, cannot see it being at a catchweight, as Tarver would have to cut an arm of to get under 175....the fight won't happen.KOJOE90 wrote:I hope so to but I have a feeling he may try and get a fight with Tarver. Although the Tarver v Tyson fight that is being talked about would of course put a stop to that I assume.steve689 wrote:I expect Hopkins to retire if he wins, although he will probably have an exhibition in Philadelphia before he goes,
If Hop wins, he should fight the winner of Calzaghe v Lacy or Winky. I think Winky beats him if they fight, and I think at this stage Lacy would be too busy, probably Calzaghe too at this point.
The only reason I mentioned a Hopkins v Tarver fight is because I have heard this possible match-up mentioned numerous times in the press, Hopkins interviews included. I agree that weight wise it makes little sense and stylewise may not make for explosive viewing as they are both 'thinking, cagey' types of fighters and the fight could turn out to be a slow paced chessmatch.jamesmcdonnell wrote:At what weight though? Tarver kills himself to make 175, Hopkins comes in under 160 for most fights, cannot see it being at a catchweight, as Tarver would have to cut an arm of to get under 175....the fight won't happen..
Win or lose it may be the most sensible thing to retire as far as Hopkins is concerned. Why risk his health and reputation a la Jones Jr by fighting on? However 'if' he does win and wants one more meaningfull fight as opposed to a more easy 'farewell' fight I agree that Calzaghe, Lacy or Wright are the most obvious choices. All three possibilities are tough fights and Hopkins performance in the upcoming Taylor rematch needs to be viewed before making any concrete prediction as Hopkins is at that time in his career were the well may go very dry overnight, in my opinion.jamesmcdonnell wrote:If Hop wins, he should fight the winner of Calzaghe v Lacy or Winky. I think Winky beats him if they fight, and I think at this stage Lacy would be too busy, probably Calzaghe too at this point.
I found this on philly.com
Bernard Hopkins, for more than a decade Philadelphia's only major sports champion, seems prepared to retire from boxing after one final vengeful battle in Las Vegas Saturday.
He just doesn't seem ready to let anything go.
Hopkins, who turns 41 in January, lost his undisputed middleweight title in July to undefeated Olympian Jermain Taylor in a split decision. Like most of Hopkins' life - which has included nearly five years in prison for muggings and a remarkable personal turnaround since - the Taylor decision incited finger-pointing accusations.
Hopkins saw the judges' scorecards as the latest in a decades-long campaign by "the system" to keep him down. He'd almost pulled off an amazing comeback. After losing early rounds to his younger opponent, he came on late to smash and bloody the tiring Taylor.
But the judges deemed the old man's rally too late. After eight rounds, judge Paul Smith already had Taylor ahead by seven rounds to one - a lead insurmountable without Hopkins' putting Taylor on the canvas, which he didn't do.
Still, Hopkins seethed.
"A robbery would have been a draw," he said, choosing his incendiary words carefully. "A rape was to give it to Jermain Taylor."
So he says that Saturday night at the Mandalay Bay, he must knock Taylor out and deny the system a chance to sucker-punch him again. "December 3 is going to rectify the system's problems," he said.
Will the rematch be his final fight? Suddenly he was less explicit, groping for words that would keep the door from slamming shut.
"This is the only fight that means something, so, yes, as far as how meaningful this fight is, this is the last fight," he explained, sort of.
If it's time to take stock of Hopkins' life and career, only a pinprick is needed to open the floodgates for accolades and accusations from Hopkins, his adversaries, his current allies, and the sport's few remaining neutral observers.
In the ring, he's been extraordinary. Outside it, choosing to manage his own career, Hopkins has been in legal disputes with former business partners almost as much as he saw criminal courtrooms as a child.
"Everyone's a foe. That's the way he lives," promoter Dan Goossen said. Asked whether his business with Hopkins dissolved in legal disputes, Goossen answered yes, with an explanation: "That's like asking if I drink water."
"Bernard Hopkins is the only person who burns bridges in front of him," boxing historian Bert Sugar said.
Hopkins came out of Graterford Prison in 1988 and got a job as a cook at the Penn Tower Hotel. He stayed clean, and "didn't spit on the sidewalk" for eight years of parole, he said.
"If I never threw a boxing punch, if I never became what I became, my goal was to be a better human being," he said.
He lost his first pro fight and didn't fight again for nearly two years. Then, working with North Philadelphia trainer Bouie Fisher, he won 22 straight bouts, in venues from the National Guard Armory in Northeast Philadelphia to the Mirage in Las Vegas.
He tried nicknames - "The Terminator" and "The Gladiator," and finally "The Executioner." He captured the United States Boxing Association's middleweight title in 1992 and his first world title, the International Boxing Federation's middleweight crown, in 1995. In 2001, he upset Felix Trinidad to become the undisputed middleweight champion.
It seemed insane after that when Hopkins turned down a $6 million payday to fight Roy Jones because he felt the financial split disrespected him. But he was paid for his pride by getting at least $9 million to fight Oscar De La Hoya in 2004. He entered the ring to the tune of Frank Sinatra's "My Way," and won.
Until July, he had a streak of 20 straight title defenses, the middleweight record. He was unbeaten for 12 years, usually winning in more methodical than spectacular fashion. He is 46-3-1 and has never lost a rematch.
Yet the disputes carry on. He most recently parted ways with Fisher, the trainer. (They had reunited after Fisher sued Hopkins for breach of contract in 2002. The suit was settled out of court.)
Fisher, 77, isn't part of the team prepping Hopkins for the Taylor rematch. Hopkins said it was because of health concerns, which might be legitimate. Fisher said it was because of money, which might be true, too.
"Bouie is a millionaire because of me," Hopkins said last week. He seemed sorry to be without the trainer he had had since his second fight. But he also said: "I've been doing this over 18 years, and, trust me, I give you a bucket and give you a sponge, and you could work my corner."
Hopkins was ordered this year to pay $610,000 for defaming promoter Lou DiBella. Hopkins had alleged - falsely, according to the courts - that DiBella, a former matchmaker for HBO, tried to extort money in exchange for a TV fight.
Goossen declined to elaborate on his legal disputes with Hopkins.
"He says he did it his way, and his way is to push people around and push aside anybody in his way," Goossen said.
After winning Don King's 2001 middleweight tournament, Hopkins left King to join with De La Hoya, prompting King to sue Hopkins. That complaint was dismissed.
"It hurt Don, because Don felt he was very good to Bernard," said Bob Goodman, vice president of boxing operations for Don King Productions.
Of course, it's hard to feel sorry for boxing promoters. In fact, you could look at Hopkins' get-them-before-they-get-you ethic - adapted from the streets to boxing's back offices - and see a working-class hero. The boxing industry is notorious for leaving champions physically and financially damaged as promoters move on to the next contender. Boxing promoter Mickey Duff once said that if you want loyalty, get a dog.
Hopkins' track record "has been of people doing him wrong," De La Hoya said.
After their fight, Hopkins signed a deal with De La Hoya's company, Golden Boy Promotions, giving the company his last bargaining chip: the lucrative right to promote his few remaining fights. In return, he got a post-boxing future as president of Golden Boy East.
When his athletic career is over, Hopkins plans to return to Philadelphia to recruit fighters for Golden Boy, expand his real estate holdings in distressed neighborhoods, and try to be a role model for kids.
Indeed, it's possible to look at Hopkins' life and conclude that what he has achieved outside the ropes is a bigger accomplishment - and certainly more unlikely - than what he's done in the ring. After all, hundreds of boxing champions have come from bad neighborhoods. Many great fighters have been in prison.
But most guys who got a high school diploma while incarcerated don't become president of anything.
As Hopkins said of himself: "Not only did Bernard do these things in his personal life - redemption - but he wound up being one of the smartest businessmen making multimillion-dollar deals with HBO. These guys have Stanford and Yale and Harvard degrees, and I'm actually competing and actually not getting the bad end of the deal. And here I'm Y4145 from Graterford State Penitentiary."
"A lot of people have been saying, well, his reputation, this and that," De La Hoya said. "Well, [a problem] hasn't happened. I'm not even waiting for it anymore. I don't believe in that."
Training isn't likely to be an issue for the well-conditioned "Executioner" Saturday. Motivation won't be a problem, either, because, as he says, "beating Jermain Taylor is beating the system." And then?
"I got two contractual dates" with HBO remaining, Hopkins said. "This one, and one at the end of January. I'm going to use those two dates.
"January, it might be one of those fights where I ask you to shave and get ready. And I'm going to close it out with that. Big celebration. Golden Boy East. We'll have a fight card and my announcement. I'll come out in front of a packed audience, and thank them, and leave out of there like Ray Robinson did - Madison Square Garden, white robe, 'Sugar Ray' written on the back. But in my way, it will be 'My Way' in black letters."
Bernard Hopkins, for more than a decade Philadelphia's only major sports champion, seems prepared to retire from boxing after one final vengeful battle in Las Vegas Saturday.
He just doesn't seem ready to let anything go.
Hopkins, who turns 41 in January, lost his undisputed middleweight title in July to undefeated Olympian Jermain Taylor in a split decision. Like most of Hopkins' life - which has included nearly five years in prison for muggings and a remarkable personal turnaround since - the Taylor decision incited finger-pointing accusations.
Hopkins saw the judges' scorecards as the latest in a decades-long campaign by "the system" to keep him down. He'd almost pulled off an amazing comeback. After losing early rounds to his younger opponent, he came on late to smash and bloody the tiring Taylor.
But the judges deemed the old man's rally too late. After eight rounds, judge Paul Smith already had Taylor ahead by seven rounds to one - a lead insurmountable without Hopkins' putting Taylor on the canvas, which he didn't do.
Still, Hopkins seethed.
"A robbery would have been a draw," he said, choosing his incendiary words carefully. "A rape was to give it to Jermain Taylor."
So he says that Saturday night at the Mandalay Bay, he must knock Taylor out and deny the system a chance to sucker-punch him again. "December 3 is going to rectify the system's problems," he said.
Will the rematch be his final fight? Suddenly he was less explicit, groping for words that would keep the door from slamming shut.
"This is the only fight that means something, so, yes, as far as how meaningful this fight is, this is the last fight," he explained, sort of.
If it's time to take stock of Hopkins' life and career, only a pinprick is needed to open the floodgates for accolades and accusations from Hopkins, his adversaries, his current allies, and the sport's few remaining neutral observers.
In the ring, he's been extraordinary. Outside it, choosing to manage his own career, Hopkins has been in legal disputes with former business partners almost as much as he saw criminal courtrooms as a child.
"Everyone's a foe. That's the way he lives," promoter Dan Goossen said. Asked whether his business with Hopkins dissolved in legal disputes, Goossen answered yes, with an explanation: "That's like asking if I drink water."
"Bernard Hopkins is the only person who burns bridges in front of him," boxing historian Bert Sugar said.
Hopkins came out of Graterford Prison in 1988 and got a job as a cook at the Penn Tower Hotel. He stayed clean, and "didn't spit on the sidewalk" for eight years of parole, he said.
"If I never threw a boxing punch, if I never became what I became, my goal was to be a better human being," he said.
He lost his first pro fight and didn't fight again for nearly two years. Then, working with North Philadelphia trainer Bouie Fisher, he won 22 straight bouts, in venues from the National Guard Armory in Northeast Philadelphia to the Mirage in Las Vegas.
He tried nicknames - "The Terminator" and "The Gladiator," and finally "The Executioner." He captured the United States Boxing Association's middleweight title in 1992 and his first world title, the International Boxing Federation's middleweight crown, in 1995. In 2001, he upset Felix Trinidad to become the undisputed middleweight champion.
It seemed insane after that when Hopkins turned down a $6 million payday to fight Roy Jones because he felt the financial split disrespected him. But he was paid for his pride by getting at least $9 million to fight Oscar De La Hoya in 2004. He entered the ring to the tune of Frank Sinatra's "My Way," and won.
Until July, he had a streak of 20 straight title defenses, the middleweight record. He was unbeaten for 12 years, usually winning in more methodical than spectacular fashion. He is 46-3-1 and has never lost a rematch.
Yet the disputes carry on. He most recently parted ways with Fisher, the trainer. (They had reunited after Fisher sued Hopkins for breach of contract in 2002. The suit was settled out of court.)
Fisher, 77, isn't part of the team prepping Hopkins for the Taylor rematch. Hopkins said it was because of health concerns, which might be legitimate. Fisher said it was because of money, which might be true, too.
"Bouie is a millionaire because of me," Hopkins said last week. He seemed sorry to be without the trainer he had had since his second fight. But he also said: "I've been doing this over 18 years, and, trust me, I give you a bucket and give you a sponge, and you could work my corner."
Hopkins was ordered this year to pay $610,000 for defaming promoter Lou DiBella. Hopkins had alleged - falsely, according to the courts - that DiBella, a former matchmaker for HBO, tried to extort money in exchange for a TV fight.
Goossen declined to elaborate on his legal disputes with Hopkins.
"He says he did it his way, and his way is to push people around and push aside anybody in his way," Goossen said.
After winning Don King's 2001 middleweight tournament, Hopkins left King to join with De La Hoya, prompting King to sue Hopkins. That complaint was dismissed.
"It hurt Don, because Don felt he was very good to Bernard," said Bob Goodman, vice president of boxing operations for Don King Productions.
Of course, it's hard to feel sorry for boxing promoters. In fact, you could look at Hopkins' get-them-before-they-get-you ethic - adapted from the streets to boxing's back offices - and see a working-class hero. The boxing industry is notorious for leaving champions physically and financially damaged as promoters move on to the next contender. Boxing promoter Mickey Duff once said that if you want loyalty, get a dog.
Hopkins' track record "has been of people doing him wrong," De La Hoya said.
After their fight, Hopkins signed a deal with De La Hoya's company, Golden Boy Promotions, giving the company his last bargaining chip: the lucrative right to promote his few remaining fights. In return, he got a post-boxing future as president of Golden Boy East.
When his athletic career is over, Hopkins plans to return to Philadelphia to recruit fighters for Golden Boy, expand his real estate holdings in distressed neighborhoods, and try to be a role model for kids.
Indeed, it's possible to look at Hopkins' life and conclude that what he has achieved outside the ropes is a bigger accomplishment - and certainly more unlikely - than what he's done in the ring. After all, hundreds of boxing champions have come from bad neighborhoods. Many great fighters have been in prison.
But most guys who got a high school diploma while incarcerated don't become president of anything.
As Hopkins said of himself: "Not only did Bernard do these things in his personal life - redemption - but he wound up being one of the smartest businessmen making multimillion-dollar deals with HBO. These guys have Stanford and Yale and Harvard degrees, and I'm actually competing and actually not getting the bad end of the deal. And here I'm Y4145 from Graterford State Penitentiary."
"A lot of people have been saying, well, his reputation, this and that," De La Hoya said. "Well, [a problem] hasn't happened. I'm not even waiting for it anymore. I don't believe in that."
Training isn't likely to be an issue for the well-conditioned "Executioner" Saturday. Motivation won't be a problem, either, because, as he says, "beating Jermain Taylor is beating the system." And then?
"I got two contractual dates" with HBO remaining, Hopkins said. "This one, and one at the end of January. I'm going to use those two dates.
"January, it might be one of those fights where I ask you to shave and get ready. And I'm going to close it out with that. Big celebration. Golden Boy East. We'll have a fight card and my announcement. I'll come out in front of a packed audience, and thank them, and leave out of there like Ray Robinson did - Madison Square Garden, white robe, 'Sugar Ray' written on the back. But in my way, it will be 'My Way' in black letters."
I think Taylor will have learnt more from the first fight than Hopkins. Sure Hopkins knows he can hurt Taylor but I don't think he has it left in him for a truely hard fight, people who predict him to come out early and go for Taylor when was the last time he did that?
If he does this then I think he'll get stopped, I predict Taylor to pick his punches better a win the early rounds better than he did in the first fight. Hopkins to come into it in say round 4/5, a little earlier than usual but in doing this I reckon Taylor will be stronger at the end because he won't have wasted as much energy chasing Hopkins and missing.
Taylor UD
If he does this then I think he'll get stopped, I predict Taylor to pick his punches better a win the early rounds better than he did in the first fight. Hopkins to come into it in say round 4/5, a little earlier than usual but in doing this I reckon Taylor will be stronger at the end because he won't have wasted as much energy chasing Hopkins and missing.
Taylor UD
I think if the fight goes 12 rounds this time, it will be a decision for Hopkins. Hops will have a master plan and I'm sure he'll have the right tactics to ensure it's not as close as last time. However, Taylor is strong and more experienced and probably better conditioned than he was and I fear this is going to be a stoppage victory for Taylor.
I don't understand how people who watched that fight thought Taylor won it. Maybe you should watch it with the commentary off as both the British and American commentators were favouring Taylor by far and this seems to have influenced a lot of fans. Even the punch stats show Hopkins winning clearly. Hopkins landed over 50% more power punches than Taylor did. He was economical in the fight, just like he always is. Taylor was aggressive but rarely landed. I felt the score of 116-112 was fair.dve3333 wrote:Never liked watching him fight and he seems like a vindictive guy outside it. He is still whining like a bitch about the last fight even though he threw absolutely nothing in the first 7 roundsKOJOE90 wrote:Not a fan of Hopkins then?dve3333 wrote:I hope Taylor does a real number on him
Punch stats
Overall
Hopkins: 96 of 326, 29%
Taylor: 86 of 453, 19%
Jabs
Hopkins: 18 of 109, 17%
Taylor: 36 of 264, 14%
Power shots
Hopkins: 78 of 217, 36%
Taylor: 50 of 189, 26%
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My T Sharp
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1933
- Joined: 16 May 2004, 13:32
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MightyWarrior
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 13284
- Joined: 23 Jan 2003, 14:01
Ricky at the weigh in with a fan...
http://www.fightnews.com/1photos/tay-hop_rg5.jpg
I reckon Taylor wins, sending Hop off into the sunset to count his bags of money.
Can't believe BH, who must have more cash than he could ever spend, has fired his old trainer Bouie Fisher - yet again - over money. What a tight wad. Really hope Taylor wallops him tonight.
http://www.fightnews.com/1photos/tay-hop_rg5.jpg
I reckon Taylor wins, sending Hop off into the sunset to count his bags of money.
Can't believe BH, who must have more cash than he could ever spend, has fired his old trainer Bouie Fisher - yet again - over money. What a tight wad. Really hope Taylor wallops him tonight.
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Podmore_Birmingham
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 950
- Joined: 18 Oct 2005, 09:38
I would love for nostaligia for Hopkins to win and sail off into the sunset. Letting the lasting memory of this great champion defeating the young up and comer and the so called future of the division , just to prove his superiority over the next generation.
I honestly think Taylor will get it by a 12-round split.
All this talk about Taylor , i honestly dont think he will be as dominant as people predict he will be.
Tom Podmore.
I honestly think Taylor will get it by a 12-round split.
All this talk about Taylor , i honestly dont think he will be as dominant as people predict he will be.
Tom Podmore.
In fairness, he's pretty much a light-middle by the time the first bell rings. He obviously loves his grub (and Guinness) though. Good job he's not planning on a long career, because he won't have one. Although you have to give him some respect: He's obviously a bit of a lazy glutton by nature, so he doesn't half do a good job when he goes into camp. Christ knows what sort of shape he'll be in when he retires though.stujones wrote:Ricky ALREADY looks more like a light middle than a light welter - 6 days after the Maussa fight.
Last edited by states on 03 Dec 2005, 17:16, edited 1 time in total.