All Time Great sub 200lb heavyweights

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

what weights would the following fighters go if they were fighting today??

which of these fighters could bulk up and could carry the extra weight because of there frame?



floyd patterson- light-H or cruiserweight


ezzard charles- light-H


jersey joe walcott- heavyweight


rocky marciano- heavyweight


jack dempsey- heavyweight



gene tunney cruiserweight or light-H


max schmeling heavyweight


joe louis heavyweight


sam langford light H


jack sharkey cruisrer or heavyweight


james braddock- cruiserweight


jack johnson heavyweight


corbett cruiserweight

[Ezzard]

I'm really not sure about bulking up. It might help a little but a naturally bigger man will always have natural advantages.

People are bigger nowadays and the way I like to think about it is relative. An avaerage sized Heavy in one era might be small in today's era but we should really think of him as being in the average category.

[dempseyfire]

200 lb is just a weight, not a threshold. Someone who weighs 205 is not going to have some big advantage to a guy who weighs 195, and some of the guys you mentioned (Johnson, Louis) weighed over 200 in their prime anyway.

Most could def. bulk up, but it wouldn't help them. Frame-wise they wern't any smaller then most of the top guys like Rahman, Tua, Johnson, Brock etc. They just were in MUCH better condition.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

louis peak weight was 198-207

johnsons was 200-205




i was simply using 200lb as an example because thats the cruiserweight limit.

[tiredoldngrey]

I'm not sure about "all-time" but I sometimes think that if there had been a cruiserweight division in the 1960s that Jerry Quarry and Henry Cooper might still be fighting over it.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

I'm not sure about "all-time" but I sometimes think that if there had been a cruiserweight division in the 1960s that Jerry Quarry and Henry Cooper might still be fighting over it.

Ali rapes both of them, and makes them bleed.

ali looks like hes just been raped by a 180lb man lol





http://www.allstarsignings.com/IMAGES/c ... x12BIG.jpg

[Ambling Alp]

How long was he down for?
How many more rounds did this fight last?
Who won?

[evndrbsn]

ezzard charles- light-H

I don't see any current fighter beating a prime Ezzard Charles at light heavyweight or cruiserweight (or a 205 lb heavy). He was too good. I think he does poorly against the large heavyweights though.

An interesting match up is a prime Ezzard Charles against a prime Roy Jones. Has that one been brought up? I could see either man winning as both were extraordinary talents. I would lean on Charles a little more because he was technically sound while Jones made a lot of mistakes. Charles would expose those flaws and most likely take a close decision.

What are your picks on that fight?

[barry]

Well, other than Ali, four of the top five heavyweights of all-time were sub-200 lb fighters. Marciano could probably go to 205 without looking fat and still perform the exact same as he did at any weight. The other three mentioned, well they all could bulk up to at least 210, maybe even 220...but in reality...they wouldn't need to bulk up, they could come in at the weight they always did and be just as dominate as they ever were against any of the heavyweight throughout history!

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Jack Johnson
5. Rocky Marciano

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

I think he does poorly against the large heavyweights though

based on wut???


charles has way to much speed and boxing skill for bigger men

[gregor]

How long was he down for?
How many more rounds did this fight last?
Who won?

On the other hand - why replacing (mysteriously damaged) gloves of Ali took so long?

[evndrbsn]

I think he does poorly against the large heavyweights though

based on wut???


charles has way to much speed and boxing skill for bigger men

Charles was a small heavyweight in his own day. I think he has a harder time in the current, larger division based solely on the size difficulties.

[barry]

It wouldn't make a difference if todays crop of heavytweights were all 8' tall, none could handle Ezzard Charles...size means very little, when you can box and very rarely is there a giant heavyweight that can dominate...Lennox Lewis is the only one so far...the rest have just been so-so, just like their predecessors that were very large!

[barry]

Who was that...Abe Simon?

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Jersey Joe Walcott lost to that one 6'5" heavyweight that Joe Louis fought.

im guessing that ur smart enough and know the fight circumstances


that was in 1940, 12 years before walcott won the title and WELL BEFORE walcotts prime.


walcott took the fighto on 24hr notice, terribly malnourished with absolutley no training.


YET, (thanx to a generous friend who was live at the bout) walcott dominated the huge top contender winning the first 5 rounds and outboxing simon and making him look silly. In the 6th, walcott terribly tired due to no food, no training, stumbled around the ring ready to fall and abe simon finished off the dead tired helpless poor walcott. simon did not beat the well before his best walcott, walcott beat himself.


imagine what a peak walcott would do to the giant





- walcott throughout his career always did well against big fighters. he put on master boxing displays that the giants couldnt match


abe simon 6'4 257lbs- the well before his best walcott dominated him the whole fight until collapsing due to exhaustion

joe baski 6'2 218lbs- green walcot dominates him shutting him out over 10, and baski was a decent contender himself

joe louis 6'2 212lb- walcott gets robbed


ollie tangberg 6'3 210lb - tangberg was a highly feared fighter at the time and walcott took him apaprt knocking him out


johhny skorr 6'3 216lb walcott knock him out in one round, skorr a respectable journeyman looked like a oak tree getting chopped down.


hein ten hoff 6'5 220lb- hoff was undefeated and a top contender and walcott gave the feared giant a boxing lesson



walcott would have had a lot of success today against the bigger men. walcott faced a lot of top punchers and had very proven chin. it took the all time great punchers like marciano and louis to knockout walcott.

[Cojimar 1945]

Walcott had already beaten the awesome Willie Reddish by the time he lost to Simon. What makes you think he was past his prime?

[Cojimar 1945]

I mean't to say before his prime.

[evndrbsn]

All of those guys would be competing at heavyweight if they were active right now. James Toney's a fat super middleweight and he practically owns this heavyweight division.

Because he beat a beyond-faded Evander Holyfield, subpar CRUISERWEIGHT Rydell Booker, and a previoiusly overhyped nobody Dominick Guinn?

Oh yeah, thats right. He beat John Ruiz. With 'roids.

[Cojimar 1945]

Debut weight seems irrelevant.

[evndrbsn]

Debut weight seems irrelevant.

A lot of fighters are at a lower weight when they begin their professional careers. Look at the weights of Shannon Briggs and Lennox Lewis for example. Most heavyweights just grow as their careers extend. Charles never grew into the heavyweight division really.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Walcott had already beaten the awesome Willie Reddish by the time he lost to Simon. What makes you think he was past his prime?

he was before his prime because he wasnt training, was a part time boxer taking fights against top contenders on 24 hr notice and was losing to them. walcott was a clear late bloomer.

look at who walcott beat from 1946 and on. THAT WAS HIS PRIME.



no way a peak walcott loses to abe simon, al ettore or even the underated tiger jack foxx.


its clear walcotts prime was 33-38 years of age. walcott got a late start because he lost blackburn early in his career, but he proved he was a late bloomer and his prime didnt start till 33 years of age.

willie rellish? gimme a break he never did anything in his career.


take a look who walcott beat from 1946 on

[Tantum]

Charles and Patterson would be fighting at 168 today.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Charles and Patterson would be fighting at 168 today.

charles way too big for 168, he would fight 175.


patterson practically too big for 175 and he couldnt make it without feeling weak. NO WAY 168.

[Tantum]

As Jaclem has stated many times, Ezzard's best weight was around 167-169. But of course you know more about Ezzard than he does.

[evndrbsn]

Charles and Patterson would be fighting at 168 today.

charles way too big for 168, he would fight 175.


patterson practically too big for 175 and he couldnt make it without feeling weak. NO WAY 168.

Charles was not too big for 168. That is crazy. He was the #1 contender in the middleweight division for Tony Zale's crown. Charles today would start out at middleweight, then move up to super middleweight when it got difficult to make 160, then move on to light heavyweight and lastly cruiserweight, maybe.