Is Froch trying to play Groves at his own game?

[jeej]

A prime Froch on his A-game beats Groves for me. That said, given Groves' age and experience, I'm sure he's improving all the time, and that makes him somewhat of an unknown quantity (i.e. he could surprise you).

So yeah, maybe Froch was under prepared or took Groves lightly. Froch certainly looked a tad sluggish in the first fight.

I'm sure whatever happens, Froch will be training like a beast for the rematch.

So easy for people to see an older fighter have a less than amazing fight and immediately claim "he's shot". I think we'll get our conclusive answer from this second fight.

[stujones]

I do hope I am wrong, coz I didn't like what happened last time but I am edging for Froch and I always have done. I think Groves SHOULD be the champion, but I do think Froch would have him in a rematch irrespective if George won on points or not last year.

I agree with most of what you have said in that last post, Froch was definitely not fully focussed on the fight (that dancing thing he did was strange) and probably took the W for granted.

However, i don't see how you can think GG should be champion. He might have gone on to win the final few rounds, he might not. The fact is he didn't due to the fight being stopped (rightly/wrongly delete as necessary) and so there is absolutely no way of knowing if he would have won!

I think Froch needs to be angry. He does seem to have a chip on his shoulder and maybe he needs that. He didn't like Bute coming over here with all the hype and fanfare from boxing writers fans despite having a much easier time of things earning good money while the rest of the SMW were going at it every few months.

Freddy of course that's a fair call, I should have said IMO Groves should be champion. For me (and perhaps only me) Froch needed a stoppage to win and I personally believe Groves would have had enough to survive.

I didn't like how Groves was treated, but the ref saved Hearn's bacon IMO (not suggesting there was anything untoward done).... had Groves survived and not got the decision, well there would be inquest after inquest.

I meant IMO opinion of what would and should have (with the judges) happened, it wouldn't have coz the judges amazingly had Froch just a round down!

I'm not suggesting the IBF overturn the decision and Groves should be entering the fight with the belt.... just I think Groves had enough about him to survive the round and win the fight on points. A bit like the debate people used to have on weather Hagler vs Leonard would have had another 3 rounds.

[palooka]

If Groves has any sense he'll have worked hard since Christmas on getting plenty of stamina; Froch won't roll over and he knows it. If Carl has a better game plan this time then it'll be a better fight than last time, he ought to work on keeping his hands up and his head moving because some of the punches he took last time won't do him any favours in a few years. Groves ought to go the body more and sharp shoot, he hits hard enough on the counter to keep Carl honest.

[youngrell]

We don't really know if Froch wasn't himself in the first fight or if he's on the slide because for the majority of the fight he was trying to recover from the huge knockdown he suffered at the start. He could've been just as good as he usually is but got caught and took an age to recover.

However, I'd be amazed if the amount of heavy shots he absorbed in the first fight hasn't had some effect on him going into the rematch.

[expe]

If he is, he isn't very good at it, pushing Groves won't wind him up, out thinking him and taking the piss out of him would be a better way to go about it and not ginger and breath jokes, something a bit more subtle would be needed, but I don't think Froch is capable of responding like that off the cuff.

[Crazyboy]

If he is, he isn't very good at it, pushing Groves won't wind him up, out thinking him and taking the piss out of him would be a better way to go about it and not ginger and breath jokes, something a bit more subtle would be needed, but I don't think Froch is capable of responding like that off the cuff.

Agree with that, some people are just not very good at that kind of thing, for instance there's a kid in my office that is the best banter/ talker i have ever known

i literally don't know what to say to him to beat him in a verbal arguement



however, I'd beat the crap out of him in a fight, and in the boxing game, thats the important part eh.

[lefty]

If he is, he isn't very good at it, pushing Groves won't wind him up, out thinking him and taking the piss out of him would be a better way to go about it and not ginger and breath jokes, something a bit more subtle would be needed, but I don't think Froch is capable of responding like that off the cuff.

Agree with that, some people are just not very good at that kind of thing, for instance there's a kid in my office that is the best banter/ talker i have ever known

i literally don't know what to say to him to beat him in a verbal arguement



however, I'd beat the crap out of him in a fight, and in the boxing game, thats the important part eh.

A lot of practise i'd imagine. If this fella does this pretty much all the time then I imagine he's gonna get pretty good at it to be fair lol

[palooka]

If he is, he isn't very good at it, pushing Groves won't wind him up, out thinking him and taking the piss out of him would be a better way to go about it and not ginger and breath jokes, something a bit more subtle would be needed, but I don't think Froch is capable of responding like that off the cuff.

Agree with that, some people are just not very good at that kind of thing, for instance there's a kid in my office that is the best banter/ talker i have ever known

i literally don't know what to say to him to beat him in a verbal arguement



however, I'd beat the crap out of him in a fight, and in the boxing game, thats the important part eh.

Not sure Froch beat the crap out of Groves, he sure took some hammer, an important part of boxing but it's better to give than to receive.

[Crazyboy]

If he is, he isn't very good at it, pushing Groves won't wind him up, out thinking him and taking the piss out of him would be a better way to go about it and not ginger and breath jokes, something a bit more subtle would be needed, but I don't think Froch is capable of responding like that off the cuff.

Agree with that, some people are just not very good at that kind of thing, for instance there's a kid in my office that is the best banter/ talker i have ever known

i literally don't know what to say to him to beat him in a verbal arguement



however, I'd beat the crap out of him in a fight, and in the boxing game, thats the important part eh.

Not sure Froch beat the crap out of Groves, he sure took some hammer, an important part of boxing but it's better to give than to receive.

Nope i agree and i never said that, all i meant was, some people are good at verbals and some people aren't....

The important part will be what happens in the ring, thats for sure.

[mike1malone]

Froch is not a great fighter, he has a great chin and stamina which has carried him through his career. Groves is a very good boxer, but doesn't have Froch's chin. Groves was in as much trouble against Anderson I think but still recovered to win the fight, so obvs his chin is not that bad!

I think Groves is handling himself brilliantly against Froch's "crew" Its almost like Carl realises most of the nation was behind George in wanting a rematch, so Froch now surrounds himself with sycophants so he feels he has some support. He is not acting like a boxing champion, he needs to find some dignity and tell the muggy brothers to shut up.

[freddydoesdallas]

I do hope I am wrong, coz I didn't like what happened last time but I am edging for Froch and I always have done. I think Groves SHOULD be the champion, but I do think Froch would have him in a rematch irrespective if George won on points or not last year.

I agree with most of what you have said in that last post, Froch was definitely not fully focussed on the fight (that dancing thing he did was strange) and probably took the W for granted.

However, i don't see how you can think GG should be champion. He might have gone on to win the final few rounds, he might not. The fact is he didn't due to the fight being stopped (rightly/wrongly delete as necessary) and so there is absolutely no way of knowing if he would have won!

I think Froch needs to be angry. He does seem to have a chip on his shoulder and maybe he needs that. He didn't like Bute coming over here with all the hype and fanfare from boxing writers fans despite having a much easier time of things earning good money while the rest of the SMW were going at it every few months.

Freddy of course that's a fair call, I should have said IMO Groves should be champion. For me (and perhaps only me) Froch needed a stoppage to win and I personally believe Groves would have had enough to survive.

I didn't like how Groves was treated, but the ref saved Hearn's bacon IMO (not suggesting there was anything untoward done).... had Groves survived and not got the decision, well there would be inquest after inquest.

I meant IMO opinion of what would and should have (with the judges) happened, it wouldn't have coz the judges amazingly had Froch just a round down!

I'm not suggesting the IBF overturn the decision and Groves should be entering the fight with the belt.... just I think Groves had enough about him to survive the round and win the fight on points. A bit like the debate people used to have on weather Hagler vs Leonard would have had another 3 rounds.

That's fair enough, everyone has their opinions and there's nothing wrong with that. Keeps people interested in the rematch!

[big lennox]

In the build up last time Froch said that he had matched all his times and distances in his diary and that Groves had angered him so much that it was a mistake because he had really motivated him etc, so I can't see that his camp was that bad, unless there are behind the scenes things which we don't know about -always that possibility of course.

People seem to forget though that Groves' camp was not ideal. He split with his trainer and had court/licensing issues etc, which is not perfect preparation.

I think that people are overlooking the fact that Groves is very fast of hand and foot. I don't think Froch wanted to take all those shots.He saw them coming but couldn't get out of the way of them.

He isn't suddenly shot, its just that Groves is much faster than Kessler, whose foot work was pretty slow in the rematch.

Froch is a very good fighter though, and mentally and physically very tough. I think it is going to be a great fight, and unlike Benn-Eubank II, I think this one will catch fire.

[lefty]

Froch is not a great fighter, he has a great chin and stamina which has carried him through his career. Groves is a very good boxer, but doesn't have Froch's chin. Groves was in as much trouble against Anderson I think but still recovered to win the fight, so obvs his chin is not that bad!

I think Groves is handling himself brilliantly against Froch's "crew" Its almost like Carl realises most of the nation was behind George in wanting a rematch, so Froch now surrounds himself with sycophants so he feels he has some support. He is not acting like a boxing champion, he needs to find some dignity and tell the muggy brothers to shut up.

I think that's a little far fetched. I very much doubt that he would of had the level of success he's had, based purely on having a great chin and stamina.

[stujones]

In the build up last time Froch said that he had matched all his times and distances in his diary and that Groves had angered him so much that it was a mistake because he had really motivated him etc, so I can't see that his camp was that bad, unless there are behind the scenes things which we don't know about -always that possibility of course.

People seem to forget though that Groves' camp was not ideal. He split with his trainer and had court/licensing issues etc, which is not perfect preparation.

I think that people are overlooking the fact that Groves is very fast of hand and foot. I don't think Froch wanted to take all those shots.He saw them coming but couldn't get out of the way of them.

He isn't suddenly shot, its just that Groves is much faster than Kessler, whose foot work was pretty slow in the rematch.

Froch is a very good fighter though, and mentally and physically very tough. I think it is going to be a great fight, and unlike Benn-Eubank II, I think this one will catch fire.

Absolutely..... it always annoys me when we get the Sky boys (and others) suddenly hyping a fighters as a "changed man" and better than we have ever seen.

I think the only difference between Froch of the super sixes and Froch going through is "wonderful" run under Eddie was that he had a bit more urgency in his work. Reminded me of the Froch who fought Pascal, not this mammoth who is fighting 10 times better than ever as hyped by Eddie et al. As Groves pointed out.... Kessler, Mack, Bute.... all fighters in their 30's and all fighters who haven't got the best of footwork and reflexes. You don't have to be the fastest to look good against them.

I remember over 10 years ago the BBC hyping the new, rejuvenated, Michael Sprott after his first defeat to Williams. Sure he had a nice few wins.... but the opposition, whilst decent, had limitations that could make Sprott look good (Holden, Potter, Reid etc).... when the new look Sprott fought Williams again, he lost.

I'm not dissing Kessler, Bute or even Mack as worthy world title challengers. Two of them were belt holders themselves, but none of them are the fastest and fleetest of foot.

I think the only fighter who was hyped as going through a career transformation who actually was going through one recently was Ricky Burns. I think Mitchell, Katisidis would have made mince meat out of the Burns who lost to Johannson.

[Dixonian]

-"I remember over 10 years ago the BBC hyping the new, rejuvenated, Michael Sprott after his first defeat to Williams. Sure he had a nice few wins.... but the opposition, whilst decent, had limitations that could make Sprott look good (Holden, Potter, Reid etc).... when the new look Sprott fought Williams again, he lost."

He was giving Danny a boxing lesson until he was dropped heavily by a cheap shot on the break!

[ILikeBeer]

I didn't watch any of it, and probably won't try and find it online.

This is the sort of shit I hate about boxing. I watch boxing to see the fight, witness who is a better man. (And maybe have a few cheeky beers.)

What I don't want to see is a bunch of grown men acting like children, shoving each other and chatting smack about each others breath. Pre-fight banter always bores me. As do ring walks that last forever. Stop fornicating about, and get on with the fight.

[ILikeBeer]

-"I remember over 10 years ago the BBC hyping the new, rejuvenated, Michael Sprott after his first defeat to Williams. Sure he had a nice few wins.... but the opposition, whilst decent, had limitations that could make Sprott look good (Holden, Potter, Reid etc).... when the new look Sprott fought Williams again, he lost."

He was giving Danny a boxing lesson until he was dropped heavily by a cheap shot on the break!

I was so pissed off at that at the time.

To be fair, it was partly Sprott's fault for turning to the referee and protesting, he left himself unprotected.

But Danny was so lucky to win. At the time, I was in agreement with the fans shouting; "Cheat. Cheat. Cheat." at Danny.

[danamba7]

I didn't watch any of it, and probably won't try and find it online.

This is the sort of poo I hate about boxing. I watch boxing to see the fight, witness who is a better man. (And maybe have a few cheeky beers.)

What I don't want to see is a bunch of grown men acting like children, shoving each other and chatting smack about each others breath. Pre-fight banter always bores me. As do ring walks that last forever. Stop effing about, and get on with the fight.

As your name would suggest!

[TheCobra]

In the lead up to their first fight, there's no doubt that Groves got under Froch's skin. There was a lot of game playing and general irritable behaviour that you could see had rattled Froch.

And then for Groves to propose how the fight was gonna go so heavily in his favour, and in such a cocky style, really riled Froch, as he's used to being the ultra confident fighter - and Groves basically did what he promised. Even though Froch won, it must have been both embarrassing and frustrating.

So, here we are in the lead up to the rematch and it appears that Froch is trying to reverse the roles. Enlisting his own mind games, using his leather-clad army of wind up minders, plus that shove.

Definitely looks like Froch is trying to rattle Groves. Still, besides Groves being unimpressed with the shove and also Lee Froch's mouth, I can't see it having much effect once they're in the ring. Will Froch have any surprises in the ring on the night, or does Groves still have his number?

Yes I thought that myself, they are trying to intimidate Groves and make him feel uncomfortable like he's being bullied. I think it's a good tactic actually, you could see how annoyed and visibly quite upset he got by the shove and at Lee Froch, so I think it appears to be working.

If I was Froch I'd keep that up right to fight night and just try and really get under Groves' skin so he never feels settled or calm in the buildup. Groves was VERY cocksure in the first fight buildup and Carl didn't really react to some pretty disrespectful comments, so it will be interesting to see how this buildup contiues to go.

[mike1malone]

Froch is not a great fighter, he has a great chin and stamina which has carried him through his career. Groves is a very good boxer, but doesn't have Froch's chin. Groves was in as much trouble against Anderson I think but still recovered to win the fight, so obvs his chin is not that bad!

I think Groves is handling himself brilliantly against Froch's "crew" Its almost like Carl realises most of the nation was behind George in wanting a rematch, so Froch now surrounds himself with sycophants so he feels he has some support. He is not acting like a boxing champion, he needs to find some dignity and tell the muggy brothers to shut up.

I think that's a little far fetched. I very much doubt that he would of had the level of success he's had, based purely on having a great chin and stamina.

He is not a great fighter you only have to watch Froch get hit time and time again in his fights. His defence is really poor, his chin has enabled him to compensate for this!

[jeej]

So maybe it was more a case of "styles make fights" and George is just too quick and sharp for Carl.

How's Carl gonna play the rematch? Is he gonna try to kick George's head off from the first bell, or will he try and drag him into the trenches?

[JayMc]

What I don't think Froch can afford to do in the early part of this fight is to try and box Groves at range. Groves is much quicker and has a decent jab, better defence and much quicker footwork.

Froch is going to have try and drag the fight to the later rounds - I don't see him being able to get through to Groves early doors if he intends on trying walk through Groves and really put it on him from the first bell and try to steamroll him. I'm not sure Froch could box effectively off the back foot I don't think he would be quick enough to counter Groves.

It is a really intriguing rematch and I'm looking forward to it - All this intimidating tactics and handbags and shite really gets on my tits though - Yes I know they are trying to hype the fight and build it up but all the games and tit for tat really is tedious.

[palooka]

When someone in the crowd is trying to intimidate a boxer (fighter B) then you do know that the boxer (boxer A) is rattled.

[Happy Slapper]

I didn't watch any of it, and probably won't try and find it online.

This is the sort of poo I hate about boxing. I watch boxing to see the fight, witness who is a better man. (And maybe have a few cheeky beers.)

What I don't want to see is a bunch of grown men acting like children, shoving each other and chatting smack about each others breath. Pre-fight banter always bores me. As do ring walks that last forever. Stop effing about, and get on with the fight.

I completely disagree. All of the hype and build up is part of what makes boxing exciting. If you didn't have that it would just be two men that you know nothing about having a fight. You can see that in any city centre on a Saturday night.

[lillywhite14]

I didn't watch any of it, and probably won't try and find it online.

This is the sort of poo I hate about boxing. I watch boxing to see the fight, witness who is a better man. (And maybe have a few cheeky beers.)

What I don't want to see is a bunch of grown men acting like children, shoving each other and chatting smack about each others breath. Pre-fight banter always bores me. As do ring walks that last forever. Stop effing about, and get on with the fight.

I completely disagree. All of the hype and build up is part of what makes boxing exciting. If you didn't have that it would just be two men that you know nothing about having a fight. You can see that in any city centre on a Saturday night.

Not quite

You will know exactly what needs to be known if you are a fan. Basically how good a fighter they both are, as you would have seen them box many times before. What makes boxing exciting is what goes on inside the ring, between proven fighters to a certain level. The shite outside is just a very small side act