boxers who you expected more from

[Crease]

I only started watching boxing in the mid to late 90s, so anyone I say will be fairly recent.

[gilgamesh]

I only started watching boxing in the mid to late 90s, so anyone I say will be fairly recent.

I didn't start following Boxing seriously until 2001 so don't feel bad. You gotta start somewhere.

[Crease]

After the guy above named Arthur, I definitely have to follow it up by saying Scott Harrison.

Granted he was a World Champion, but Scott wasn't just beating his opponents, he was hurting them. Although the ability of his challengers could be doubted, they were good fighters - but they weren't at the top of the sport.

I was expecting Scott to progress to the next level and start defend his WBO title over in the US, maybe even get a Las Vegas fight or two - the way that Ricky Hatton did after winning a World title and beating a few good names.

When you think of the fighters who were about the Featherweight during Harrison's WBO title reign (2002-05) - Derrick Gainer, Chris John, Juan Manuel Marquez and especially Erik Morales - then you have to say that there were BIG fights out there for him. Especially if he kept on winning and not got himself in trouble with the law.

[gilgamesh]

I definitely hoped to see Scott Harrison in with more of those guys as well. I only got to see him fight a few times though. Once against Wayne McCullough, and once against...some guy that fought Injin Chi. I think it was Michael Brody? Or something like that.

The only one that really sticks out in my memory is the McCullough fight. I wish they would've aired his two fights with Manuel Medina here in the States.

[Crease]

I didn't start following Boxing seriously until 2001 so don't feel bad. You gotta start somewhere.

Yeah mate. Ever since I've got in to the game I've been developing a habit of watching fights from the past - I started off with the Heavyweight Division, now I tend to just watch really close fights that people have been reading about or favourite fighters of my that I like to watch (Marvin Hagler, Carlos Monzon, Julian Jackson)

No doubt Il'l move on to other fighters in the future. Really considering getting in to Gene Fullmer. And I have developed an interest in Salvador Sanchez.

[gilgamesh]

I didn't start following Boxing seriously until 2001 so don't feel bad. You gotta start somewhere.

Yeah mate. Ever since I've got in to the game I've been developing a habit of watching fights from the past - I started off with the Heavyweight Division, now I tend to just watch really close fights that people have been reading about or favourite fighters of my that I like to watch (Marvin Hagler, Carlos Monzon, Julian Jackson)

No doubt Il'l move on to other fighters in the future. Really considering getting in to Gene Fullmer. And I have developed an interest in Salvador Sanchez.

I've watched a great deal of fights from the past as well

Read a sh*t load of Ring Magazines and stuff like that. I'd say my knowledge on past eras before I started watching is pretty solid.

I've accumulated a great deal of the "Fight of the Year" type fights from years gone by in my collection, and any fighter from the past I had a whole lot of interest in I've caught up on pretty well.

There's always more to learn though about Fighters from the past. You could spend your whole life catching up on the history of this sport.

[Crease]

Another fighter I expected more from was Junior Witter.

He won a World title, then lost on only his third defence (even though it was Tim Bradley - so the loss doesn't look so bad in retrospect) but even before then Junior was really making a name for himself at light Welter.

He ticked all the boxes of the "traditional route" - (which is not often done these days) by winning the British, Commonwealth & European titles. And especially impressed when he beat DeMarcus Corley - who was a former World Champion.

Witter never really came back from the Bradley loss, and he lost again to Devon Alexander which kind of finished his career at the top level... But I thought that he had one more world title in him.

[gilgamesh]

I always wanted to see Witter vs Hatton then just because of how big of a fight it would've been in the UK at the time in 2004 or 2005. I think Hatton would've kicked his ass though.

[Bobbyptsd]

Around the time a bunch of top guys were emerging at 140, among others: Cotto, Hatton, Bojado and Williams, I thought Ricardo Williams was going to be the best of the bunch.

That didn't quite pan out.

[DaveyMac]

Cassius Clay

Truly an under-achiever' who avoided >
* Thad Spencer {1967}
* Leotis Martin {1967/1968/1969}
* Jimmy Ellis {1968/1969}
* Oscar Bonavena {1967/1968/1969}
* Joe Frazier {1968/1969/1970}
* Billy Daniels {Rematch}
* Doug Jones {Rematch}
* Henry Cooper {Rematch 1963/1964/1965}
* Cleveland Williams {1963}
* Eddie Machen {1962}
* Ingemar Johansson {1963}

Not sure he could be considered Great.

Really? You can't just let this go. Bash Ali in your own damn threads keep your racist bs out of the normal people threads.

[DaveyMac]

Tommy Morrison, in every way.

[Crease]

There's always more to learn though about Fighters from the past. You could spend your whole life catching up on the history of this sport.

Yeah, I agree mate. I have found that the more I learn, the more I realise how much I didn't know. And how much more there is still to learn. And there's always another fight to watch.

But for me, it's never a labour - and I feel that boxing fans these days are privileged in that we have the option to go on to Youtube and watch a Chavez vs Whitaker fight or any of the Ward vs Gatti fights. It's a really great resource if a boxing fan cares to use it.

[Crease]

I don't know about you Gil, but I have found a few things quite annoying when discussing the sport with others who don't take the time to watch fights.

First off, I actually know guys who make judgements on fights without ever having watched either fighter. A former friend of mine used to do this to be very vocal about making predictions for upcoming fights... An example of this was when he backed (and even put money on) Froch vs Ward in the Super Six final - and he later admitted to me that it was his first time watching both fighters.

I just find that really annoying when people are trying to be experts when they just haven't taken the time to watch the guys fight.

[Crease]

I always wanted to see Witter vs Hatton then just because of how big of a fight it would've been in the UK at the time in 2004 or 2005. I think Hatton would've kicked his ass though.

I too was a vocal advocate of that fight. It could really have been a big money spinner for both guys, I mean the public would have absolutely drooled over it, particularly if it had've been a unification fight - that would have been a bit special.

But yeah I agree with you about the result. I'd fancy a Hatton KO or a late TKO.

And it was around that time (maybe a bit later) when I was crying out for a Calzaghe vs Froch fight. That too could've have been special.

[Jpreisser]

Around the time a bunch of top guys were emerging at 140, among others: Cotto, Hatton, Bojado and Williams, I thought Ricardo Williams was going to be the best of the bunch.

That didn't quite pan out.

Anyone remember that Vivian Harris was supposed to be good enough to compete with the best 140 pounders around that time as well? He looked intriguing for awhile, being a tall puncher and what have you. Then he was completely derailed by Maussa, who Hatton eventually beat up on.

Ricky Hatton is a guy I had a soft spot for: an aggressive English boxer who threw murderous body-punches and was likable to boot. I lived and died with his matches. Lol. I wish he would have moved through the ranks sooner. He spent too much time feasting on fringe guys. Don`t get me wrong, it made for highlight reel finishes but it was frustrating from a fan`s perspective. A fight with Cotto would have been lovely, as would have a fight with Witter who ran his mouth for quite awhile. Mayweather would have been nice at 140 too.

Another guy I really liked and expected more from was Kelly Pavlik. A tall, big punching, kinda hard-nosed white guy from a working-class place like Youngstown. I liked his style and was ecstatic when he beat Jermain Taylor twice, especially after Taylor had dethroned Hopkins. I thought the kid was for real but his personal life got in the way. I think he could have certainly accomplished more had he had his shyt straight. At the very least he could have provided some fun match-ups.

Joshua Clottey is a fighter I was hoping would make a bigger mark. His defense was tight, he was physically strong, his hands were quick, his power was good, his multiple left hook combinations were beautiful, his stamina was great, and he always looked in peak condition but he wouldn`t let his damn hands go enough! It was frustrating to see his fights end up closer than need be because of his work rate. His close but very winnable bout with the big bad Margarito, his thorough manhandling of Judah, and his SD with Cotto showed me he had the talent to compete with good fighters.

Muhammad Abdullaev was a guy I thought would make a big splash in the pros. In the amateurs his style looked suited to the pro game and I thought his power, technique, and amateur pedigree would definitely make him a good champion.

Dmitry Pirog by the way he knocked out Jacobs; Roman Karmazin because of his fine showing against Ouma; and a local fighter named Adrian Mora. I know there are quite a few more but I am drawing blanks.

[Crease]

Ricky Hatton is a guy I had a soft spot for: an aggressive English boxer who threw murderous body-punches and was likable to boot. I lived and died with his matches. Lol. I wish he would have moved through the ranks sooner. He spent too much time feasting on fringe guys. Don`t get me wrong, it made for highlight reel finishes but it was frustrating from a fan`s perspective. A fight with Cotto would have been lovely, as would have a fight with Witter who ran his mouth for quite awhile. Mayweather would have been nice at 140 too.

In Ricky's defence I don't think he was ever considered a "serious" fighter.

When he was on his way up Ricky was seen as a bang N' wallop sorta fighter who - whilst he might be exciting to watch - he was surely going to be "found out" when he came up against someone "good". And I think that boxing perception clung to him for about 4 or 5 years. People often forget that these days.

In retrospect it's easy to look back and check his record and think: "well he was unbeaten and he was beating decent fighter after decent fighter, what is so wrong with that?"

But that's not how it was back in the day. I don't think that many people predicted world glory for Hatton or that he would suceed as well as he did. H ejust had this "well he's a tough kid, but his limitations will be exposed when he fights a classy operator".

I think because of this, he found it difficult to get fights against really top fighters - hence the reason he went down the WBU route and it suited him perfectly. While the WBU be a lightly regarded title, the obscurity helped Ricky to work quietly and build his way up without a lot of public pressure and the title was a good lure for getting fights against better fighters - guys like Eamon Magee and getting the American guys to come over like Hutchinson, Vince Phillips & Tackie.

And then big Tszyu give him his title shot - and we all know what happened from there, the rest is history.

Although I would have LOVED to have seen a Cotto fight back in 2006, when both guys had a belt each. That would have been a incredible!

[Crease]

One last thing I would add about Ricky Hatton is this maverick attitude of his. His boozing and his weight gain between fights were widely publicised but it didn't stop him from doing it even though he was told time after time that it would be bad for his body in the long term. Ricky is the type of guy that he will do what he wants and it hasn't done him any favours.

[DaveyMac]

Davey Mac,

What does 'Racism' have anything to do with Cassius Clay being an under-achiever ?

Constantly referring to him as Cassius Clay is racist.

Saying he was an under achiever is just stupid and annoying.

Troll.

[Crease]

Another guy I really liked and expected more from was Kelly Pavlik. A tall, big punching, kinda hard-nosed white guy from a working-class place like Youngstown. I liked his style and was ecstatic when he beat Jermain Taylor twice, especially after Taylor had dethroned Hopkins. I thought the kid was for real but his personal life got in the way. I think he could have certainly accomplished more had he had his shyt straight. At the very least he could have provided some fun match-ups.

Mate, I think that we all thought the same after Kelly's battles with Taylor. He very quickly became inducted in to everyone's top five favourite active fighters, because his fights were so entertaining to watch.

(Kinda reminds of when I watched the Golovkin vs Macklin fight - and when I seen what 3 G did to him I instantly thought to myself "I'm gonna keep an eye on this guy, he looks special")

Looking at his record, his only 2 losses came against Bernard Hopkins & Sergio Martinez - looking at it now, it really doesn't seem so bad at all.

[Crease]

Saying he was an under achiever is just stupid and annoying.

Wish that I "under achieved" as well as Ali did. Three time World Heavyweight Champion? Yeah I'd take that in a heartbeat.

[DaveyMac]

Another guy I really liked and expected more from was Kelly Pavlik. A tall, big punching, kinda hard-nosed white guy from a working-class place like Youngstown. I liked his style and was ecstatic when he beat Jermain Taylor twice, especially after Taylor had dethroned Hopkins. I thought the kid was for real but his personal life got in the way. I think he could have certainly accomplished more had he had his shyt straight. At the very least he could have provided some fun match-ups.

Mate, I think that we all thought the same after Kelly's battles with Taylor. He very quickly became inducted in to everyone's top five favourite active fighters, because his fights were so entertaining to watch.

(Kinda reminds of when I watched the Golovkin vs Macklin fight - and when I seen what 3 G did to him I instantly thought to myself "I'm gonna keep an eye on this guy, he looks special")

Looking at his record, his only 2 losses came against Bernard Hopkins & Sergio Martinez - looking at it now, it really doesn't seem so bad at all.

Kelly certainly never let me down. He was tough as nails and never stopped coming. I was at the Martinez fight in AC and I still think he might have won if his eyes hadn't been covered in blood. But through that whole fight and the last three rounds he never even knew where Serge was, he just kept coming. He took a ridiculous amount of abuse and just kept coming at him.
I think Kelly that night fought as good a Serge as there was, and I think for his career Kelly gave it everything he had and did as much as he could. Could he have done more without the drinking? Perhaps. But it's also possible that the same demons that made him drink also made him such a tough sob to begin with, so all in all for my money Kelly was all he could be.

[gilgamesh]

There's always more to learn though about Fighters from the past. You could spend your whole life catching up on the history of this sport.

Yeah, I agree mate. I have found that the more I learn, the more I realise how much I didn't know. And how much more there is still to learn. And there's always another fight to watch.

But for me, it's never a labour - and I feel that boxing fans these days are privileged in that we have the option to go on to Youtube and watch a Chavez vs Whitaker fight or any of the Ward vs Gatti fights. It's a really great resource if a boxing fan cares to use it.

No Doubt about it, Youtube is a true Boxing fans wet dream

[handsofstone]

I didn't start following Boxing seriously until 2001 so don't feel bad. You gotta start somewhere.

Yeah mate. Ever since I've got in to the game I've been developing a habit of watching fights from the past - I started off with the Heavyweight Division, now I tend to just watch really close fights that people have been reading about or favourite fighters of my that I like to watch (Marvin Hagler, Carlos Monzon, Julian Jackson)

No doubt Il'l move on to other fighters in the future. Really considering getting in to Gene Fullmer. And I have developed an interest in Salvador Sanchez.

I,ve also developed a bit of a fasination with Salvador Sanchez,great fighter,amazing he achieved so much and beat some world beaters at such a young age,tragic tale

[tiny_acres]

I didn't start following Boxing seriously until 2001 so don't feel bad. You gotta start somewhere.

Yeah mate. Ever since I've got in to the game I've been developing a habit of watching fights from the past - I started off with the Heavyweight Division, now I tend to just watch really close fights that people have been reading about or favourite fighters of my that I like to watch (Marvin Hagler, Carlos Monzon, Julian Jackson)

No doubt Il'l move on to other fighters in the future. Really considering getting in to Gene Fullmer. And I have developed an interest in Salvador Sanchez.

I,ve also developed a bit of a fasination with Salvador Sanchez,great fighter,amazing he achieved so much and beat some world beaters at such a young age,tragic tale

I loved sanchez.He was in several wars at such a young age I have to wonder how long his career would of gone.

[misterpunch]

back to the thread - joe bugner...one of the most frustrating fighters I've ever saw