Aaron Pryor's legacy? ------

[elmersalsa]

Buzz Bomb

Aaron Pryor was a success because of his management.............

Talent had nothing to do with it........

I would have to disagree with your analysis, as Aaron Pryor was the best 135 lb. Lightweight in the World
by mid-1979.

Remember, nobody in the Top 10 would fight him.

1979 wins over 'faded' but capable > 'Stormin' Norman Goins, Al Ford and Jose Fernandez were impressive
enough to chase other Top 10 Lightweight Contenders away.

In mid-1979 > a 23 1/2 year-old 'HAWK' at 19-0-0 {17 KO's} was better than WBA Champion - Ernesto Espana
or WBC Champion - Jim Watt.

It was the avoidance of other Lightweights, that forced Aaron to move up to 140 lbs.

They should've matched him up with Watts, he could've won the title, and avenged his loss to Howard Davis Jr.Then move up after beating Hilmer Kenty as the undisputed lightweight champion, and still taken the belt.

Maybe Jim Watt would have fought the great Aaron Pryor. But Pryor would've got to come to London to fight him. And I don't think that Watt would have travelled to Cincinnati, USA to fight him.

I do not think that Howard Davis wanted any part of Pryor.

[Nile4000]

Buzz Bomb

Aaron Pryor was a success because of his management.............

Talent had nothing to do with it........

I would have to disagree with your analysis, as Aaron Pryor was the best 135 lb. Lightweight in the World
by mid-1979.

Remember, nobody in the Top 10 would fight him.

1979 wins over 'faded' but capable > 'Stormin' Norman Goins, Al Ford and Jose Fernandez were impressive
enough to chase other Top 10 Lightweight Contenders away.

In mid-1979 > a 23 1/2 year-old 'HAWK' at 19-0-0 {17 KO's} was better than WBA Champion - Ernesto Espana
or WBC Champion - Jim Watt.

It was the avoidance of other Lightweights, that forced Aaron to move up to 140 lbs.

They should've matched him up with Watts, he could've won the title, and avenged his loss to Howard Davis Jr.Then move up after beating Hilmer Kenty as the undisputed lightweight champion, and still taken the belt.

Maybe Jim Watt would have fought the great Aaron Pryor. But Pryor would've got to come to London to fight him. And I don't think that Watt would have travelled to Cincinnati, USA to fight him.

I do not think that Howard Davis wanted any part of Pryor.

Kind of got that feeling too.Aaron and Gato Gonzalez would've made a great matchup while it lasted.

[Dart340]

BoxBuzz, I have no problem with your "contrarian" opinion except for the fact that you are going to the other extreme as Il Duce does and instead of giving us threads packed full of opinion and back-up, you are saying almost nothing to flesh out your statement.

I'm intrigued and want more backstory. Pryor looked the part and was sold as though he deserved the part. His early fights didn't appear to be complete set-ups- Norman Goins was still a dangerous guy and Aspirilla seemed to be a very rough draw- and he didn't appear to have a serious flaw to require careful matchmaking. You were there and saw his early fights and development, tell us how and why he benefitted from skillful handling and wasn't all he was cracked up to be. Seriously interested here, as I'm sure others are, in what you saw.

[palooka]

Pryor was a fantastic fighter who burned out while he was at the top of his game; he burnt the candle both ends and Leonard would have beaten him had he stepped up to welter. I'd have thought that Chavez Snr and Pryor would have been a fantastic bout at light welter - over 15 rounds it'd have been a classic. I've read interviews with Aaron and he seems satisfied with things; if he'd have hit the really big time he would have imploded.

[elmersalsa]

The great Aaron Pryor, to me, was a complete fighter. He could box, he could slug it out, he could take a punch, he could knock you out, he could fight well inside and had that great heart and stamina. He used to throw punches from all angles and he was quick too. Good footwork also.

[Jaywheel]

The great Aaron Pryor, to me, was a complete fighter. He could box, he could slug it out, he could take a punch, he could knock you out, he could fight well inside and had that great heart and stamina. He used to throw punches from all angles and he was quick too. Good footwork also.

Tell us about his defense.

[Controversial]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThUhD_g48_Q

20 year old Pryor beating a 17 year old Tommy Hearns in an amateur lightweight fight.

[elmersalsa]

The great Aaron Pryor, to me, was a complete fighter. He could box, he could slug it out, he could take a punch, he could knock you out, he could fight well inside and had that great heart and stamina. He used to throw punches from all angles and he was quick too. Good footwork also.

Tell us about his defense.

He had good defense, but it was overshadowed by his all around attack. He used to get too open when throwing punches. But I guess he did not care much about that, since he relied a lot in his speed, chin and stamina. Anything else, a complete fighter and a great one, too.

[Nile4000]

Saoul Mamby may have beaten Aaron Pryor if he fought him at the right time.

[Ambling Alp II]

Not anywhere near Pryor's prime. But the fact is that Pryor should have fought guys like Mamby, Haley, and Costello. It would have helped his legacy.

[elmersalsa]

They were not in the Hawk's class. As much as many people in here does not like the great Aaron Pryor, he was a hell of a fighter.

[Nile4000]

Johnny Bumphus may have beaten Aaron also, after 1982.

[elmersalsa]

Johnny Bumphus may have beaten Aaron also, after 1982.

I doubt that, my friend. Maybe after 1985.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Aaron had very poor defense and at times poor balance. He was as exciting as a fighter gets. His legacy is winning one of the greatest fights in history and being a top 5 Jr Welterweight. Probably a top 200 all time fighter.

[Ambling Alp II]

They were not in the Hawk's class. As much as many people in here does not like the great Aaron Pryor, he was a hell of a fighter.

Mamby, Haley, and Costello weren't in Pryors class? I think he would have beaten them, but he should have fought them. Almost all of Pryor's opponents were inferior to them.

elmer come on. You brush it off when a fighter that you like (in this case Pryor)doesn't fight obvious opponents that he should have.

However, you constantly rip a fighter that you don't like (like Robinson) for not fighting every good fighter a weight class or 2 above him.

[elmersalsa]

They were not in the Hawk's class. As much as many people in here does not like the great Aaron Pryor, he was a hell of a fighter.

Mamby, Haley, and Costello weren't in Pryors class? I think he would have beaten them, but he should have fought them. Almost all of Pryor's opponents were inferior to them.

elmer come on. You brush it off when a fighter that you like (in this case Pryor)doesn't fight obvious opponents that he should have.

However, you constantly rip a fighter that you don't like (like Robinson) for not fighting every good fighter a weight class or 2 above him.

What the great Aaron Pryor got to prove with those guys, Alp? He already beaten one of the greatest fighters in history in the great Alexis Arguello, even though that Arguello was no in his prime days. But still, The Hawk solved the puzzle in that great fight. I do not take nothing away from him. People could blame the black bottle all they want, he won.

Pryor next step was to step up in class and fight the great Sugar Ray Leonard (if Leonard was healthy then) or fight at welterweight with the Donald Currys and Milton McCrorys of the world.

I do not dislike the original Sugar Ray. But as you can see, he does not in my view is the greatest fighter of all time. Not by looking at his padded record fighting guys that he already beat over and over again. Fight someone that was as good as the great Charley Burley at least once, and he would have some more credit.

Sugar Ray was a great fighter. But when people keep saying that he was the most complete fighter ever, that is a HOGWASH. I have seen 10 fighters that were more complete than he. The greats of Duran and Leonard or even the great Eusebio Pedroza was more complete than he was.

[Ambling Alp II]

Whatever.

[RobotBoy]

Some of the arguments being mustered against Pryor are shamefully poor. I'd like to rebut them as much as I can.
1. The Panama Lewis 'black bottle' incident isn't much of an indictment. Even if Lewis had provided Pryor with a stimulant in the water bottle, there's no way the effect would have appeared the very next round. I have a medical background and it takes, on average, 20-odd minutes for the effects of a drug to become apparent if taken on an empty stomach. Given the fact that Pryor metabolism was accelerated and his system starved for water, the chemical could have been absorbed faster but even ten minutes later the fight would have been over. Not to mention that a year later with a different trainer (Emanuel Stewart), Pryor KO'd Arguello again, this time in only ten rounds. It's also not like Pryor's style changed from the time he was an amateur to his post-Lewis days - he came out like a hungry wolverine from the the bell in Round One and stayed on the attack until it was over.
2. His cocaine addiction only hurt him as a fighter, and obviously shortened his career, so why it should be used to dismiss his P4P ranking is beyond me. Pryor was great despite his drug use, not because of it.
3. It's true that he didn't fight the top champions of his day but that's hardly Pryor's fault. Never has a fighter been ducked more than Pryor who wasn't enough of a name to force the issue (and had mediocre management). For other champions, there simply wasn't enough money to take the huge risk. Hearns, Leonard, Duran, all turned down chances to fight him.
4. Someone here claims that Sweet Pea was a better fighter than Pryor. I love Sweet Pea but he didn't have to the guns to stand with Pryor. Pryor would have KO'd Mayweather.
To beat prime Pryor, it would have been necessary to punch with him - he was too quick and too aggressive to allow anyone to stay within a defensive shell and potshot. He threw in combinations, went to the body and head, and had KO power in both hands. He also had a fantastic chin and is underrated technically. I just don't see that many guys in history who could hang with him.
Despite the brevity of his career, he's a top 100 fighter, all time, and could have been much more.

[Nile4000]

At this point in time, I will say that Aaron is top 10, or 5 all-time jr. welter, and top 100 p4p. :shame. Great fighter, but, in some ways, victim of circumstance and timing. But, as mentioned before, could have fought the Bruce Currys, Leroy Haleys, and definitely Saoul Mamby. And he was not going to beat Leonard and Hearns, or even Curry, McCrory, Starling, or a young Bobby Joe Young.

[Ambling Alp II]

Near his prime he would have beaten Bobby Joe Young. If he moved up, he probably would have beaten McCrory. Curry and Starling would have been interesting.

[Nile4000]

Nobody gives Ice Man McCrory respect.

[Ambling Alp II]

It could be because we get him confused with George Gervin.

[Nile4000]

It could be because we get him confused with George Gervin.

Good point.