sugar ray robinson vs roberto duran

[raylawpc]

Besides Gavilan, there is Randy Turpin. Sammy Angott wasn't a big puncher, but otherwise was a great all around fighter.
Tommy Bell was a very good all around fighter.

As much as I like the great Kid Gavilan, he was not a complete fighter.
Randy Turpin was a good, but not a complete fighter.
Sammy Angott was not a complete fighter.
Tommy Bell? Are you serious?

So I think the answer is: Robinson NEVER BEAT A COMPLETE FIGHTER. The great Charley Burley was a complete fighter. Robinson did not fight him. The great Ezzard Charles was a complete fighter. SRR never even look Ezzard's way.

This is a guy that fought some brute guys that made him look good. That was it.

What was the comment you made earlier about somebody lacking expertise in boxing? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black . . .

[elmersalsa]

Besides Gavilan, there is Randy Turpin. Sammy Angott wasn't a big puncher, but otherwise was a great all around fighter.
Tommy Bell was a very good all around fighter.

As much as I like the great Kid Gavilan, he was not a complete fighter.
Randy Turpin was a good, but not a complete fighter.
Sammy Angott was not a complete fighter.
Tommy Bell? Are you serious?

So I think the answer is: Robinson NEVER BEAT A COMPLETE FIGHTER. The great Charley Burley was a complete fighter. Robinson did not fight him. The great Ezzard Charles was a complete fighter. SRR never even look Ezzard's way.

This is a guy that fought some brute guys that made him look good. That was it.

What was the comment you made earlier about somebody lacking expertise in boxing? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black . . .

Well, tell me what COMPLETE FIGHTER the original Sugar Ray beat? Because as much as I loved the great Kid Gavilan, he was not a complete fighter. I do not even think that he really beat the Cuban Hawk to tell you the truth.

Sammy Angott a complete fighter? never heard of it by no boxing expert. By no boxing film.
Randy Turpin? Are we serious?
Tommy Bell? Are you playing tricks on my mind?

I mean, they were not even all around. They lacked something. Never heard of them as complete fighters. Never a newspaper man from that time ever mentioned them as complete fighters. This is a total BLASPHEMY.

[King Carlos]

The Duran that beat Leonard and Palomino was the best fighter I've ever seen. I know I haven't seen Robinson at his absolute best but I'll take that Duran as an underdog 8 days a week.

[King Carlos]

Well, tell me what COMPLETE FIGHTER the original Sugar Ray beat? Because as much as I loved the great Kid Gavilan, he was not a complete fighter. I do not even think that he really beat the Cuban Hawk to tell you the truth.

Oh no? How did you score the two fights?

[raylawpc]

Well, tell me what COMPLETE FIGHTER the original Sugar Ray beat? Because as much as I loved the great Kid Gavilan, he was not a complete fighter. I do not even think that he really beat the Cuban Hawk to tell you the truth.

Oh no? How did you score the two fights?

I'll be interested in his answer to that one since neither film is available . . .

[Bobbyptsd]

[elmersalsa]

Well, tell me what COMPLETE FIGHTER the original Sugar Ray beat? Because as much as I loved the great Kid Gavilan, he was not a complete fighter. I do not even think that he really beat the Cuban Hawk to tell you the truth.

Oh no? How did you score the two fights?

I got the gut feeling that something was fishy in the decision. According to the news report of the time, a lot of people in the arena booed the decisions.

The question for me is...Where are those films? Did the original Sugar Ray really win?

The great Kid Gavilan is one of my all time favorite fighters. I have seen him fight on film. I just cannot see someone like the original Sugar Ray beating him. That is only my gut feeling opinion.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Your gut is as dumb as your mind.

[misterpunch]

maybe sugar ray himself went round every house and bar and TV studio that had film of the fight and offered them big money to hand it over. he then threw every copy in the east river and that's why his rep as a boxing great is still intact to this day. its just my gut feeling

[SaadOffTheDeck]

maybe sugar ray himself went round every house and bar and TV studio that had film of the fight and offered them big money to hand it over. he then threw every copy in the east river and that's why his rep as a boxing great is still intact to this day. its just my gut feeling

It's a little known fact that Robinson had goons jump Marty Servo, severely beat him, and force him to vacate the title and give up the footage of their controversial fight. Poor bastard.

[Giancarlo]

Your gut is as dumb as your mind.

[Giancarlo]

maybe sugar ray himself went round every house and bar and TV studio that had film of the fight and offered them big money to hand it over. he then threw every copy in the east river and that's why his rep as a boxing great is still intact to this day. its just my gut feeling

If only that gay fraud Cassius Clay had been smart enough to do the same!

[Nile4000]

Ray would take Roberto by 10-5, 9-6 decision. Duran wouldn't be able to intimidate Robinson like he did Leonard.

[Seamus]

I could envision Duran swarming Robinson and taking the first 3 rounds on sheer aggression, but then Robinson would get into a groove and his 2 biggest advantages would come into play, punching power and strength. Once Sugar Ray starts to almost casually land his devastating right to the body, it would begin to zap Duran's strength and his punch output would drop off noticeably and his 3 rounds of dictating the pace and bulling Robinson around would end. By the last 3 I think Duran would be in survival mode, and the scores would be something like 10-3-2 for Robinson.

[BoxBuzz]

In my minds eye, it's a fight between the best lightweight of all time, and the best welter. And pound for pound Duran may be every bit as good as Ray, and may even have a slight style advantage.

Both fighters equally intelligent.

I would not bet on this fight.....and I think it would be close.....slight advantage for Ray.......but....when it ALL matters and Roberto is in his prime and well conditioned and trained....how in this world do you bet against him? Even in the WW division.....

[elmersalsa]

When the great Roberto Duran was on top of his game and in great shape, I can't see a welterweight of any era beating him. Too smart, clever and boxing IQ. He knew the position of his opponents in the inside exchanges. I have not seen nobody do that. See, boxing is not only boxing like the great Muhammad Ali by running and jabbing. That is a BAD CONCEPT that a lot of people have when it comes to boxing. Duran was a DIFFICULT TARGET to cleanly hit. His boxing skills were VERY UNDERRATED for people's eye. He did things inside the exchanges that I seldom see in boxers. A complete fighter he was. He was more complete than the great Sugar Ray Robinson. Robinson NEVER beat a complete fighter. What COMPLETE FIGHTERS did Robinson ever beat? The two most complete fighters of his era he never fought them.

At middleweight and even at Jr. middleweight, I pick Robinson.

At welterweight and below, it would be all Roberto Duran!

[Sidney Carton]

Ray hit almost as hard as Hearns,

That's a winner.

Yep, Hearns could have knocked out Gene Fullmer with a single punch.

Tell me another.

[cfang]

Robinson would beat Duran 8/10 times at welter. Robinson was unbeatable at welter in the 40d so had to fight middles. Only la motta beat him in 100 fights. Both are all time top ten p4p in my view.

[Nile4000]

Would have been interesting to see Montreal Duran take on Ayub Kalule, Mustafa Hamsho, or Alan Minter.

[Nile4000]

Would have been interesting to see Montreal Duran take on Ayub Kalule, Mustafa Hamsho, or Alan Minter.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

If SRR is at his best no-one in history beats him at Welter/Jr Middle/Middleweight Duran was a Monster but he would lose to Robinson by 15 round un dec

[Kalan]

The Duran of the 1st Leonard-Duran Fight beats the Robinson who was decked had a very difficult time with Tommy Bell when SRR won the 147 title.

Bell couldn't box well and was 39-10-2.. Robinson was floored hard and lost the first 5 rounds.. It was the 2nd fight in a row where Robinson was almost KO'd.

Another fight that's a valid comparison is when Welterweight Carmen Basilio -- who was Duran's size -- upset Middieweight Champ Sugar Ray Robinson. Basilio was not a skilled boxer or anything close to Duran's level, but he was a tough guy who had 12 losses when he upset Robinson.

Robinson had a difficult time with Kid Gavilan who was beaten by Lightweight Ike Williams and Doug Ratford, 27-18-6, the previous year and had other losses.

At no time in his career did Robinson ever beat boxers the caliber of Sugar Ray Leonard or Estaban De Jesus -- guys who Duran beat... And Robinson also never fought anyone the caliber of Marvin Hagler... Wilfred Benitez... or Tommy Hearns.. Robinson fought mostly unskilled opponents who he was very likely to beat.. But he didn't always beat them -- Ralph Jones came off 5 straight losses to completely dominate Robinson.

[elmersalsa]

The Duran of the 1st Leonard-Duran Fight beats the Robinson who was decked had a very difficult time with Tommy Bell when SRR won the 147 title.

Bell couldn't box well and was 39-10-2.. Robinson was floored hard and lost the first 5 rounds.. It was the 2nd fight in a row where Robinson was almost KO'd.

Another fight that's a valid comparison is when Welterweight Carmen Basilio -- who was Duran's size -- upset Middieweight Champ Sugar Ray Robinson. Basilio was not a skilled boxer or anything close to Duran's level, but he was a tough guy who had 12 losses when he upset Robinson.

Robinson had a difficult time with Kid Gavilan who was beaten by Lightweight Ike Williams and Doug Ratford, 27-18-6, the previous year and had other losses.

At no time in his career did Robinson ever beat boxers the caliber of Sugar Ray Leonard or Estaban De Jesus -- guys who Duran beat... And Robinson also never fought anyone the caliber of Marvin Hagler... Wilfred Benitez... or Tommy Hearns.. Robinson fought mostly unskilled opponents who he was very likely to beat.. But he didn't always beat them -- Ralph Jones came off 5 straight losses to completely dominate Robinson.

I agree with you this time, kalan. Duran beats Robinson at welterweight.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

The Duran of the 1st Leonard-Duran Fight beats the Robinson who was decked had a very difficult time with Tommy Bell when SRR won the 147 title.

Bell couldn't box well and was 39-10-2.. Robinson was floored hard and lost the first 5 rounds.. It was the 2nd fight in a row where Robinson was almost KO'd.

Another fight that's a valid comparison is when Welterweight Carmen Basilio -- who was Duran's size -- upset Middieweight Champ Sugar Ray Robinson. Basilio was not a skilled boxer or anything close to Duran's level, but he was a tough guy who had 12 losses when he upset Robinson.

Robinson had a difficult time with Kid Gavilan who was beaten by Lightweight Ike Williams and Doug Ratford, 27-18-6, the previous year and had other losses.

At no time in his career did Robinson ever beat boxers the caliber of Sugar Ray Leonard or Estaban De Jesus -- guys who Duran beat... And Robinson also never fought anyone the caliber of Marvin Hagler... Wilfred Benitez... or Tommy Hearns.. Robinson fought mostly unskilled opponents who he was very likely to beat.. But he didn't always beat them -- Ralph Jones came off 5 straight losses to completely dominate Robinson.

ALMOST KO'D YOUR GETTING fornicating WORST KALAN LETS BRING UP ALL THE FIGHTERS THAT HAVE HAD THE DISSTINCTION OF BEING NEARLY STOPPED/TKO'D/KO'D WHATS THAT GOT TO DO WITH THE PRICE OF SHIT HOUSE PAPER

[Kalan]

The Duran of the 1st Leonard-Duran Fight beats the Robinson who was decked had a very difficult time with Tommy Bell when SRR won the 147 title.

Bell couldn't box well and was 39-10-2.. Robinson was floored hard and lost the first 5 rounds.. It was the 2nd fight in a row where Robinson was almost KO'd.

Another fight that's a valid comparison is when Welterweight Carmen Basilio -- who was Duran's size -- upset Middieweight Champ Sugar Ray Robinson. Basilio was not a skilled boxer or anything close to Duran's level, but he was a tough guy who had 12 losses when he upset Robinson.

Robinson had a difficult time with Kid Gavilan who was beaten by Lightweight Ike Williams and Doug Ratford, 27-18-6, the previous year and had other losses.

At no time in his career did Robinson ever beat boxers the caliber of Sugar Ray Leonard or Estaban De Jesus -- guys who Duran beat... And Robinson also never fought anyone the caliber of Marvin Hagler... Wilfred Benitez... or Tommy Hearns.. Robinson fought mostly unskilled opponents who he was very likely to beat.. But he didn't always beat them -- Ralph Jones came off 5 straight losses to completely dominate Robinson.

ALMOST KO'D YOUR GETTING effing WORST KALAN LETS BRING UP ALL THE FIGHTERS THAT HAVE HAD THE DISSTINCTION OF BEING NEARLY STOPPED/TKO'D/KO'D WHATS THAT GOT TO DO WITH THE PRICE OF poo HOUSE PAPER

You're dreaming again... Sugar Ray Robinson got floored hard by Tommy Bell and Artie Levine in consecutive fights... Those two guys weren't real good and lost a lot fights... That's material when you're being hyped as the ATG of all time... Nobody as bad as Bell or Levine ever decked Duran -- who put a Middleweight Champion like Iran Barkley clean on his ass.. Roberto is fine at 66.. No problems after winning World Titles in Many weight classes.