3rd best HW ever?

[drunkenpiper36]

Picking Sanders to beat Walcott sounds ludicrous on paper, but studying their fights, its not out of the question that a Sanders upset could occur. Walcott would be dealing with a pure south paw with quick hands and a lengthy wingspan to go along with greater size and a fair amount of power. On his best night, Arnold Cream should be favored, but if truth be told, he's lost to worse men.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He hit hard enough to have a 5% chance or so. I'd give Vitali 30/70 due to his size.

[drunkenpiper36]

Assuming Sanders actually shows up " in shape" which I realize is a rare occurrence, then I'd give him better than 5% odds. He was better in a head to head sense than his record shows. I actually enjoy watching some of his earlier prospect fights before he got flabby. Lot of potential there which unfortunately never developed.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Walcott faced much bigger punchers than Corrie on multiple occasions.

[drunkenpiper36]

Didn't always beat them either. And power isn't the only thing he brings to the table.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

That's true, but he took their punches for more than the 3 or 4 rounds that Corrie would be dangerous.

[drunkenpiper36]

Agreed. Sanders stamina wasn't as bad as people think though. He went 10 rounds on a few occasions and remained pretty lively for most of that time. I think he is judged more for his performances at age 35 onward than the ones where he was a rising contender and in semi-decent shape.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

However he's judged, he'd be lucky to beat Walcott once out of 10. His hand speed helped him against slower fighters. Jersey Joe was much faster, much better and hit just as hard.

[drunkenpiper36]

Maybe. But if they ever do develop time machines I'm not going to risk putting down a lot of money on either.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I imagine Walcott would be -600 or -700 and I don't bet odds that steep. If it was even money you could count me in for a grand.

[drunkenpiper36]

Be a good fight.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I doubt it.

[Ambling Alp II]

Berbick put in a creditable showing but Holmes certainly won the fight decisively. He was in big trouble against Shavers but he hung on to win.

As for the Klicthskos , Vitaly had very limited skills. 0-2 in his biggest fights in which a great fighter would have won them both.
Wladimir was knocked out 3 times by 3 different ordinary fighters.
Corrie Sanders has fast hands? huh? He hardly even used his right anyway.

Simply throwing statements like "very limited skills", "very poor chin" does not make it so. Or u think 2 losses somehow support that? Losses due to injury while winning on points from top ATG and fast crafty champ? very limited skills? Gm, gh, ghahah

Sanders is a lefty, maybe thats why he uses his right less, and if you need to be reminded of that, maybe you should go watch his fights instead of laughing at obvious fact that he had fast hands.

On the other note statement that Sanders is "not any bigger than Joe Louis in terms of body mass/frame" is really funny too. 245 lb Sanders must carry 40 lb of pure fat then (considering Louis was ~205 lb in his prime). Oh, and its on top of what Corrie had at the start of his carrier, being not too ripped at 208 lb (maybe 8-10% of bodyfat ~ +20 lb). Its a funny day

Yes I think Vitaly has limited skills. Yes he only has two losses. You do realize how misleading win/loss records are in boxing? He only fought two quality opponents. Lewis who was woefully out of shape. He still lost in 6 rounds. Byrd was a good boxer without any power. He quit against him. Yes he has won a lot of fights. You can always find opponents to beat in boxing. Not really that hard.

Does Wladimir have a weak chin? Stopped 3 times by 3 guys that aren't that good. Was it stamina against Brewster? Well if that is argument , is as embarrassing to lose becasue you ran out of gas in just 5 rounds as losing because he has a weak chin. He also got decked 3 times by Samuel Peter. He even got knocked down against Williamson.

Corrie Sanders "fast hands"? You do realize that a well rounded boxer throws about as many punches with both hands?
Larry Holmes for example was right handed. If you count his jabs and hooks he threw about as many punches with his left as his right. My point was that Sanders only had his left. He seldom threw a jab or hook, which makes him a very limited fighter. A great fighter would have little trouble beating him. Wladimir obviously didn't, and Vitaly had a lot of trouble.

As for the size of Sanders and Joe Louis, that wasn't me that made that comment. I believe it was by dempseyfire who I think was saying that he build wasn't bigger than that of Joe Louis. He was taller, and carried around much more fat than Louis.

[drunkenpiper36]

I think if Sanders were fighting in an era of smaller men and wearing 8 oz gloves he'd do pretty well

[Jaywheel]

I think if he played golf against most ATG boxers, he'd do even better.

[Leonid]

Berbick put in a creditable showing but Holmes certainly won the fight decisively. He was in big trouble against Shavers but he hung on to win.

As for the Klicthskos , Vitaly had very limited skills. 0-2 in his biggest fights in which a great fighter would have won them both.
Wladimir was knocked out 3 times by 3 different ordinary fighters.
Corrie Sanders has fast hands? huh? He hardly even used his right anyway.

Simply throwing statements like "very limited skills", "very poor chin" does not make it so. Or u think 2 losses somehow support that? Losses due to injury while winning on points from top ATG and fast crafty champ? very limited skills? Gm, gh, ghahah

Sanders is a lefty, maybe thats why he uses his right less, and if you need to be reminded of that, maybe you should go watch his fights instead of laughing at obvious fact that he had fast hands.

On the other note statement that Sanders is "not any bigger than Joe Louis in terms of body mass/frame" is really funny too. 245 lb Sanders must carry 40 lb of pure fat then (considering Louis was ~205 lb in his prime). Oh, and its on top of what Corrie had at the start of his carrier, being not too ripped at 208 lb (maybe 8-10% of bodyfat ~ +20 lb). Its a funny day

Yes I think Vitaly has limited skills. Yes he only has two losses. You do realize how misleading win/loss records are in boxing? He only fought two quality opponents. Lewis who was woefully out of shape. He still lost in 6 rounds. Byrd was a good boxer without any power. He quit against him. Yes he has won a lot of fights. You can always find opponents to beat in boxing. Not really that hard.

Does Wladimir have a weak chin? Stopped 3 times by 3 guys that aren't that good. Was it stamina against Brewster? Well if that is argument , is as embarrassing to lose becasue you ran out of gas in just 5 rounds as losing because he has a weak chin. He also got decked 3 times by Samuel Peter. He even got knocked down against Williamson.

Corrie Sanders "fast hands"? You do realize that a well rounded boxer throws about as many punches with both hands?
Larry Holmes for example was right handed. If you count his jabs and hooks he threw about as many punches with his left as his right. My point was that Sanders only had his left. He seldom threw a jab or hook, which makes him a very limited fighter. A great fighter would have little trouble beating him. Wladimir obviously didn't, and Vitaly had a lot of trouble.

As for the size of Sanders and Joe Louis, that wasn't me that made that comment. I believe it was by dempseyfire who I think was saying that he build wasn't bigger than that of Joe Louis. He was taller, and carried around much more fat than Louis.

"Vitaly has very limited skills" has already shortened to "Vitaly has limited skills", I hope it will transform in "Vitaly has skills" at some point, as your statements does not support your conclusion at all and if you think u'r winning this arguement its just sad.
Same goes for Corrie Sanders "fast hands".
And following your logic we may come to: Frazier relied mostly on his left hook, "which makes him a very limited fighter. A great fighter would have little trouble beating him". Ali obviously didn't

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Why wouldn't you hope for Vitali? He has very little punch variety, his package is size and toughness. Limited skills is correct, that doesn't make him easy to beat. Wlad is much more skilled.

[Leonid]

Why wouldn't you hope for Vitali? He has very little punch variety, his package is size and toughness. Limited skills is correct, that doesn't make him easy to beat. Wlad is much more skilled.

Size and toughness along may help one stop their opponents, but not win rounds from skilled boxers. Ability to use size to win is a skill, so is Vitali's great timing, ability to avoid punches effectively just leaning back, without energy consuming dancing on his feet, having unique punches like half-jab half-uppercot in his arsenal, and ability to control the distance and hurt and wear down opponents with armpunches. Large boxers don't have to be slik to win fights, but you just don't want to call their way of winning a "skill".

[Tuan_Jim]

I see the simpletons are out, trying to use their limited resources to reeducate the smarter folk on Corrie Sanders and Vitali Klitschko. Must be that time of month again.

Corrie damn Sanders. I remember him stinking out some Vegas undercard against Mike Dixon. He really was useless if he couldn't KO an opponent. Reduced to walking around in circles, gasping while he potshotted and belly-jiggled. His fight in London versus Garing Lane on the McCall/Lewis undercard was painfully dull. It was plain to see why his handlers kept him well out the mix in the 1990s. The idea of him facing some fit, slick, dancing 200lb ring genius, familiar with faster hands and bigger punchers, over that long, torturous 15 rd stretch would be a nightmarish proposition for someone as limited and fundamentally lacking in self-belief as Corrie Sanders. He matches very well with giant targets suffering from the same frailties as himself, but such fighters don't figure in serious 'Best Heavyweights Ever' discussions.

That Corrie Sanders is Vitali Klitschko's 'greatest win' will tell future generations everything they need to know about Vitali Klitschko. And his opponents.

[Leonid]

I see the simpletons are out, trying to use their limited resources to reeducate the smarter folk on Corrie Sanders and Vitali Klitschko. Must be that time of month again.

Corrie damn Sanders. I remember him stinking out some Vegas undercard against Mike Dixon. He really was useless if he couldn't KO an opponent. Reduced to walking around in circles, gasping while he potshotted and belly-jiggled. His fight in London versus Garing Lane on the McCall/Lewis undercard was painfully dull. It was plain to see why his handlers kept him well out the mix in the 1990s. The idea of him facing some fit, slick, dancing 200lb ring genius, familiar with faster hands and bigger punchers, over that long, torturous 15 rd stretch would be a nightmarish proposition for someone as limited and fundamentally lacking in self-belief as Corrie Sanders. He matches very well with giant targets suffering from the same frailties as himself, but such fighters don't figure in serious 'Best Heavyweights Ever' discussions.

That Corrie Sanders is Vitali Klitschko's 'greatest win' will tell future generations everything they need to know about Vitali Klitschko. And his opponents.

And who is the simpleton after such superficial post? Not even going to argue with you

[Tomasino]

I see the simpletons are out, trying to use their limited resources to reeducate the smarter folk on Corrie Sanders and Vitali Klitschko. Must be that time of month again.

Corrie damn Sanders. I remember him stinking out some Vegas undercard against Mike Dixon. He really was useless if he couldn't KO an opponent. Reduced to walking around in circles, gasping while he potshotted and belly-jiggled. His fight in London versus Garing Lane on the McCall/Lewis undercard was painfully dull. It was plain to see why his handlers kept him well out the mix in the 1990s. The idea of him facing some fit, slick, dancing 200lb ring genius, familiar with faster hands and bigger punchers, over that long, torturous 15 rd stretch would be a nightmarish proposition for someone as limited and fundamentally lacking in self-belief as Corrie Sanders. He matches very well with giant targets suffering from the same frailties as himself, but such fighters don't figure in serious 'Best Heavyweights Ever' discussions.

That Corrie Sanders is Vitali Klitschko's 'greatest win' will tell future generations everything they need to know about Vitali Klitschko. And his opponents.

And who is the simpleton after such superficial post? Not even going to argue with you

It's pretty true though isn't it. I remember Vitali lifting his legs up when Sanders was slinging left hands at him. Buddy Baer would beat the brothers never mind Max. Sanders is a C level heavyweight.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Why wouldn't you hope for Vitali? He has very little punch variety, his package is size and toughness. Limited skills is correct, that doesn't make him easy to beat. Wlad is much more skilled.

Size and toughness along may help one stop their opponents, but not win rounds from skilled boxers. Ability to use size to win is a skill, so is Vitali's great timing, ability to avoid punches effectively just leaning back, without energy consuming dancing on his feet, having unique punches like half-jab half-uppercot in his arsenal, and ability to control the distance and hurt and wear down opponents with armpunches. Large boxers don't have to be slik to win fights, but you just don't want to call their way of winning a "skill".

He's never beaten a highly skilled fighter.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I see the simpletons are out, trying to use their limited resources to reeducate the smarter folk on Corrie Sanders and Vitali Klitschko. Must be that time of month again.

Corrie damn Sanders. I remember him stinking out some Vegas undercard against Mike Dixon. He really was useless if he couldn't KO an opponent. Reduced to walking around in circles, gasping while he potshotted and belly-jiggled. His fight in London versus Garing Lane on the McCall/Lewis undercard was painfully dull. It was plain to see why his handlers kept him well out the mix in the 1990s. The idea of him facing some fit, slick, dancing 200lb ring genius, familiar with faster hands and bigger punchers, over that long, torturous 15 rd stretch would be a nightmarish proposition for someone as limited and fundamentally lacking in self-belief as Corrie Sanders. He matches very well with giant targets suffering from the same frailties as himself, but such fighters don't figure in serious 'Best Heavyweights Ever' discussions.

That Corrie Sanders is Vitali Klitschko's 'greatest win' will tell future generations everything they need to know about Vitali Klitschko. And his opponents.

Well said.

[drunkenpiper36]

Vitali Klitschko hasn't captured the imagination of very many people. But for all his shortcomings, he's managed to put together a pretty good career. He's 15-2 in world title bouts, and has lost the fewest number of rounds of any heavyweight champion. His chin is well proven and while he's not exactly Sugar Ray robinson in the speed and skills department, he's got a pretty good outside fighting game. His wins include Sam Peter, Herbie Hide, Corrie Sanders, Kirk Johnson, Ross Purity, Larry Donald, Tomasz Adamek, Chris Arreola, Juan Gomez and Odlanier Solis. Not a hall of fame resume by any means but certainly not a bad one. The Chris Byrd defeat was a heart breaker for the Klitschkos. Vitali had that fight in the bag, before he quit due to the pain of the torn rotator cuff. Kind of a shame that he didn't gut that one out, but then again I wasn't the one in the ring fighting with an injured arm so I'll hold off on judgement.. As for Corrie Sanders, well I've seen people overrate him plenty, but today he seems to be getting sold a little short.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

World title bouts? What is that supposed to mean these days? Your list of victories speaks for itself. I never fault fighters for being injured, even if he had beaten Byrd his resume would be lacking. As for Sanders, he rates way below Rahman. That says it all.