john murrays corner.

[maley1984]

Every time the camera was in his corner they never gave him any advice. It was all come on john. Its the battle on manchester. Come on 3 good rounds. Never once did they suggest a shot or combination. On the other hand joe gall was giving advice on shots and at one stage told crolla I got u down by a round. Did any one else notice that.

[Trojans44]

Yes it was embarrassing. They should have considered pulling him after the penultimate round and The towel should have come in after the knockdown.

[Jimmyfreestyler]

Yeah they kept saying "you're a fighting man John Murray" when Crolla started picking him off - no tactics, he just was using his head as a punchbag to get close enough to swing for the big shots.

Great fight though.

[palooka]

Yeah they kept saying "you're a fighting man John Murray" when Crolla started picking him off - no tactics, he just was using his head as a punchbag to get close enough to swing for the big shots.

Great fight though.

It works for Froch.

[Broomhall]

I think fighters respond to different things-for me personally I never liked to get technical advice in the corner-I preferred a trainer to focus on my morale-giving me a lift, or staying calm. So I think it is about a cornerman knowing what works for his fighter.

I think Murray is a "robot" type of fighter (not in a disrespectful way) he has always relied on his strength and fitness to wear other guys down. I think you switch him on and let him work-I dont think he is the kind of guy who can change tactics or make too many technical alterations during a fight. So maybe for him the best way to work his corner is to try and keep his morale high or give him feedback about how the fight is going?

I think on the other hand Crolla is a more technical guy who maybe can listen and is calm enough to make those adjustments in the heat of battle.

[Manchester Massive]

I thought tactically Crolla and Gallagher were spot on last night. Their gym is flying at the moment.

[danconnollyeire]

If Murray knew how to pace himself and pick his shots a bit better he would've won that fight

[Manchester Massive]

If Murray knew how to pace himself and pick his shots a bit better he would've won that fight

And move his head

[expe]

If Murray knew how to pace himself and pick his shots a bit better he would've won that fight

He won rounds 2, 3 and 4 easily, but he blew himself out trying to get Crolla out of there, he could have cut the workrate down and still won the rounds, he wastes punches because he doesn't think about what he's doing.

[Adamj1987]

If Murray knew how to pace himself and pick his shots a bit better he would've won that fight

And move his head

i think thats been a long time criticism of murray and doubt it will change now

[Datsue]

I think fighters respond to different things-for me personally I never liked to get technical advice in the corner-I preferred a trainer to focus on my morale-giving me a lift, or staying calm. So I think it is about a cornerman knowing what works for his fighter.

I think Murray is a "robot" type of fighter (not in a disrespectful way) he has always relied on his strength and fitness to wear other guys down. I think you switch him on and let him work-I dont think he is the kind of guy who can change tactics or make too many technical alterations during a fight. So maybe for him the best way to work his corner is to try and keep his morale high or give him feedback about how the fight is going?

I think on the other hand Crolla is a more technical guy who maybe can listen and is calm enough to make those adjustments in the heat of battle.

Although a "What the fook you doing, John? Don't waste punches like a numpty, keep something back for fooks sake!" wouldn't have gone amiss, I reckon.

[Final round]

'Av a blow lad'

[danconnollyeire]

If Murray knew how to pace himself and pick his shots a bit better he would've won that fight

He won rounds 2, 3 and 4 easily, but he blew himself out trying to get Crolla out of there, he could have cut the workrate down and still won the rounds, he wastes punches because he doesn't think about what he's doing.

Exactly. He wastes so much energy missing for no reason. People critise hatton for getting fat between fights but he was always fit enough to keep the pace for 12 rounds

[Broomhall]

If Murray knew how to pace himself and pick his shots a bit better he would've won that fight

He won rounds 2, 3 and 4 easily, but he blew himself out trying to get Crolla out of there, he could have cut the workrate down and still won the rounds, he wastes punches because he doesn't think about what he's doing.

Exactly. He wastes so much energy missing for no reason. People critise hatton for getting fat between fights but he was always fit enough to keep the pace for 12 rounds

Sometimes you just cannot change the way guys are programmed. Some boxers are very technical and can change and adapt through fights and in training. Others just know one way to fight and for whatever reason cannot adapt-new trainers, different manager-doesnt matter they fight the same-I think Amir Khan is similar-he is a better technical fighter than Murray-but basically cannot change his nature no matter how much they change trainers.

Murray is one of those guys-change the batteries, point him in the right direction and switch him on. If the batteries last he will keep throwing punches till he runs out of charge.

His corner I think know him, and that is why they felt it is pointless telling him to slow down, take a breather, move his head-they know he cannot do it-so I would think they tried to focus on what might have worked for him.

[TheCobra]

Yep Murray is about as one-dimensional as they come. At a certain level it works pretty well, but it's definitely caught up with him now as he can't keep up the workrate anymore. Either he changes/adapts his style or he quits.

[revporl]

I was surprised by the corner, they weren't advising him at all. A little guidance, or even something just to calm him a little and get him to pick his shots (and move his head!) a bit better would have helped

[TheCobra]

I was surprised by the corner, they weren't advising him at all. A little guidance, or even something just to calm him a little and get him to pick his shots (and move his head!) a bit better would have helped

Yeh agreed I don't really rate that team if I'm honest, I think they don't come across as master game-planners or anything like that, just good simple, boxing men who know how to get a guy in shape.

Thing with Murray though is I don't think that corner can be particularly blamed, they told him to move his head more, he didn't - he can't.

What you gona tell Murray to do? "Stop using your face as a defence"???

[taffytoon]

Sometimes you just cannot change the way guys are programmed. Some boxers are very technical and can change and adapt through fights and in training. Others just know one way to fight and for whatever reason cannot adapt-new trainers, different manager-doesnt matter they fight the same-I think Amir Khan is similar-he is a better technical fighter than Murray-but basically cannot change his nature no matter how much they change trainers.

Murray is one of those guys-change the batteries, point him in the right direction and switch him on. If the batteries last he will keep throwing punches till he runs out of charge.

His corner I think know him, and that is why they felt it is pointless telling him to slow down, take a breather, move his head-they know he cannot do it-so I would think they tried to focus on what might have worked for him.

You're just making far too much sense for 99% of the armchair critics that frequent this forum my friend; save your breath as it is truly wasted If they are not criticising the ref and or judges they criticise the corner; the cuts man and ultimately the fighter

[manno]

I think fighters respond to different things-for me personally I never liked to get technical advice in the corner-I preferred a trainer to focus on my morale-giving me a lift, or staying calm. So I think it is about a cornerman knowing what works for his fighter.

I think Murray is a "robot" type of fighter (not in a disrespectful way) he has always relied on his strength and fitness to wear other guys down. I think you switch him on and let him work-I dont think he is the kind of guy who can change tactics or make too many technical alterations during a fight. So maybe for him the best way to work his corner is to try and keep his morale high or give him feedback about how the fight is going?

I think on the other hand Crolla is a more technical guy who maybe can listen and is calm enough to make those adjustments in the heat of battle.

This mick marsden was a decent fighter in his day and has flown under the radar somewhat with the fighters he has managed n trained over the years back to noël wilders who was as far removed style wise from Murray as you could get. Murray would not have responded or reacted any other way to any other instruction and with the tools he's got he fought the only fight he could, if he'd have paced it more crolla would've got a foothold sooner n stopped him quicker, sometimes you just gotta go with wot ya got. John Murray were never guna be art gatti n transform his career from slugger to boxer, just not got that mentality

[JimJim2009]

I agree with the observations above about the corner's approach with Murray, as an armchair fan I thought the advice was too much of the cheerleading kind, and lacked technical suggestions. John Murray does have a lot of skill and technique to his approach and he can vary his tactics, he is not just a headfirst slugger. On the other hand he's not Pernell Whitaker either, but it does him a disservice to suggest he is too one dimensional to benefit from technical suggestions in the corner.

When the late Dean Powell passed away, there was a great little story about how he helped out in Joe Calzaghe's corner, when Joe was fighting Bernard Hopkins. I can't repeat it word for word but the gist of the story was, Joe was on the stool between rounds, and Enzo was shouting his head off at Joe, with an instruction. Dean interjected, and suggested to Enzo that they tell Joe how to carry out the instruction.

For several rounds, Crolla/Murray could have gone either way. Crolla boxed to a perfect plan, Murray seemed to throw the kitchen sink at Crolla and when it didn't produce a victory, he just carried on until he got stopped. "battle of Manchester" comments are fine to fire up your fighter but some observations from the corner about the opponent might have been useful. Crolla is not unbeatable and I think a bit of advice on countering Crolla's tactics may have helped.

[TheCobra]

I agree with the observations above about the corner's approach with Murray, as an armchair fan I thought the advice was too much of the cheerleading kind, and lacked technical suggestions. John Murray does have a lot of skill and technique to his approach and he can vary his tactics, he is not just a headfirst slugger. On the other hand he's not Pernell Whitaker either, but it does him a disservice to suggest he is too one dimensional to benefit from technical suggestions in the corner.

When the late Dean Powell passed away, there was a great little story about how he helped out in Joe Calzaghe's corner, when Joe was fighting Bernard Hopkins. I can't repeat it word for word but the gist of the story was, Joe was on the stool between rounds, and Enzo was shouting his head off at Joe, with an instruction. Dean interjected, and suggested to Enzo that they tell Joe how to carry out the instruction.

For several rounds, Crolla/Murray could have gone either way. Crolla boxed to a perfect plan, Murray seemed to throw the kitchen sink at Crolla and when it didn't produce a victory, he just carried on until he got stopped. "battle of Manchester" comments are fine to fire up your fighter but some observations from the corner about the opponent might have been useful. Crolla is not unbeatable and I think a bit of advice on countering Crolla's tactics may have helped.

All great points. Then I thought, wait a minute, but he left probably one of the best current trainers for pre-fight gameplans and in-fight tactical and technical advice! I guess the grass aint always greener on the other side eh Mr Murray.

[lefty]

I agree with the observations above about the corner's approach with Murray, as an armchair fan I thought the advice was too much of the cheerleading kind, and lacked technical suggestions. John Murray does have a lot of skill and technique to his approach and he can vary his tactics, he is not just a headfirst slugger. On the other hand he's not Pernell Whitaker either, but it does him a disservice to suggest he is too one dimensional to benefit from technical suggestions in the corner.

When the late Dean Powell passed away, there was a great little story about how he helped out in Joe Calzaghe's corner, when Joe was fighting Bernard Hopkins. I can't repeat it word for word but the gist of the story was, Joe was on the stool between rounds, and Enzo was shouting his head off at Joe, with an instruction. Dean interjected, and suggested to Enzo that they tell Joe how to carry out the instruction.

For several rounds, Crolla/Murray could have gone either way. Crolla boxed to a perfect plan, Murray seemed to throw the kitchen sink at Crolla and when it didn't produce a victory, he just carried on until he got stopped. "battle of Manchester" comments are fine to fire up your fighter but some observations from the corner about the opponent might have been useful. Crolla is not unbeatable and I think a bit of advice on countering Crolla's tactics may have helped.

All great points. Then I thought, wait a minute, but he left probably one of the best current trainers for pre-fight gameplans and in-fight tactical and technical advice! I guess the grass aint always greener on the other side eh Mr Murray.

I dont think it had much to do with tactics. You can only work with what the fighter has at his disposal and John is in the latter part of his career and has zero head movement (never really has had any) and is far too easy to his generally.