Is Muhammad Ali in Everybody's 'Top 10'

[gilgamesh]

At Heavyweight I'm certain he is.

P4P he probably is on the majority of lists you'll see...or just right outside of it.

[littlepug]

Not in or just outside my top ten pfp plenty of far more deserving fighters to choose from.

[No Tomorrow]

*

[hhascup]

As a Heavyweight he has the best resume of anyone.

Ali fought 38 different opponents 49 times in 61 bouts that were rated at one time or another in the top 10 in the World. - 80.3279%

Louis fought 43 different Opponents 54 times in 71 (or 72) bouts that were rated at one time or another in the top 10 in the World. - 76.056%

Rocky fought 13 different Opponents 16 times in 49 bouts that were rated at one time or another in the top 10 in the World. - 32.653%

Ali fought 36 out of 61 opponents while they were in the top 10. He beat 32 of them 50.82%

Louis fought 35 out of 71 opponents while they were rated in the top 10. He beat 32 of them 45.07%

Rocky fought 11 out of 49 opponents while they were rated in the top 10. He beat all 11 of them 22.44898%

Ali fought boxers that had an average pro record of 33-5-1 when he fought them.

Louis fought boxers that had an average pro record of 38-10-2.5 when he fought them.

Rocky fought boxers that had an average pro record of 29.7-10.16-1.78 when he fought them.

Just compare the list of Opponents that each fought, you can't tell me that Ali didn't box the better opponents.

Ali beat Foreman, Frazier 2 out of 3 times, Liston twice, Norton 2 out of 3 times, Patterson twice, Quarry twice, Bonavena, Ellis, Folley, Terrell, Chuvalo twice, Lyle & Shavers. I can go on, BUT I think you know what I mean.
Louis beat Greats like Baer, Schmeling, Walcott twice, Conn twice, Braddock, Carnera & Sharkey.

Compare them at the time they fought Ali or Louis, not just their overall record, and you will see what I am talking about.

Both of these Great boxers are among the best ever, I rate them 1-2. When I was a kid, most experts would say that it was Dempsey who was the Greatest, as time went on the experts would say it was Louis, now for many years, they say it's Ali. No one knows for sure and everyone has his or her opinions.

Just match up Ali's opponents with Louis's that they beat.

1. Foreman 40 (37 KO)-0-0 vs. Max Baer 50 (31 KO) -6-0
2. Frazier 30 (25 KO) -1-0 & 32 (27 KO) -2-0 vs. Schmeling 52 (37 KO) -7-4
3. Liston 35 (25 KO) -1-0 & 35 (25 KO)-2-0 vs. Braddock 50 (26 KO) -25-7
4. Norton 30 (23 KO) -1-0 & 37 (30 KO) -3-0 vs. Walcott 44 (27 KO) -11-2 & 44 (27 KO) -12-2
5. Patterson 43 (32 KO) -4-0 & 55 (40 KO) -7-1 vs. Conn 59 (13 KO) -10-1 & 62 (13 KO) -11-1
6. Quarry 37 (23 KO) -4-4 & 43 (25 KO) -5-4 vs. Nova 26 (17 KO) -2-4
7. Bonavena 46 (36 KO) -6-1 vs. Galento 76 (53 KO) -23-5
8. Ellis 30 (14 KO) -6-0 vs. Sharkey 38 (13 KO) -13-3
9. Folley 74 (40 KO) -7-4 vs. Farr 66 (18 KO) -20-13
10. Terrell 38 (18 KO) -4-0 vs. Carnera 82 (66 KO) -7-0
11. Chuvalo 34 (27 KO) -11-2 & 66 (57 KO)-17-2 vs. Godoy 53 (30) -8-7 & 53 (30 KO) -9-7
12. Lyle 30 (21 KO) -2-1 vs. Simon 34 (23 KO) -7-0 & 36 (25 KO) -9-1
13. Shavers 55 (53 KO) -5-1 vs. Buddy Baer 50 (47 KO) -5-0 & 50 (47 KO) -6-0
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs.
15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs.
16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs.
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3
18. Moore 184-22-11
19. Young 17-4-2
20. Williams 65-5-1
21. Jones 21-3-1
22. Cooper 27-8-1 & 33-11-1
23. L. Spinks 7-0-1

This is their records at the time(s) they fought Ali and Louis. You can also switch them around if you want; just try to pick the best against the best. Meaning you should have the top opponents that Ali boxed against the top opponents of Louis.

That’s 31 wins against 23 different opponents. All 23 opponents were rated #3 or better in the World at one time or another by Ring Magazine.


Lets do it with Tyson:

1. Foreman 40-0-0 vs. Holmes 48-2-0
2. Frazier 30-1-0 & 32-2-0 vs. M. Spinks 31-0-0
3. Liston 35-1-0 & 35-2-0 vs. P. Thomas 29-1-1
4. Norton 30-1-0 & 37-3-0 vs. Berbick 32-4-1
5. Patterson 43-4-0 & 55-7-1 vs. Tubbs 24-1-0
6. Quarry 37-4-4 & 43-5-4 vs. J. Smith 19-5-0
7. Bonavena 46-6-1 vs. Tucker 35-0-0
8. Ellis 30-6-0 vs. Biggs 15-0-0
9. Folley 74-7-4 vs. Bruno 32-2-0 & 40-4-0
10. Terrell 38-4-0 vs. C. Williams 22-2-0
11. Chuvalo 34-11-2 & 66-17-2 vs. Tillis 31-8-0
12. Lyle 30-2-1 vs. Ruddock 24-1-1 & 24-2-1
13. Shavers 54-5-1 vs. Botha 39-1-0
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs. M. Green 16-1-1
15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs. M. Frazier 16-1-0
16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs. Tillman 20-4-0
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3 vs. Stewart 26-1-0
18. Moore 184-22-11 vs.
19. Young 17-4-2 vs.
20. Williams 65-5-1 vs.
21. Jones 21-3-1 vs.
22. Cooper 27-8-1 & 33-11-1 vs.
23. L. Spinks 7-0-1 vs.


How about Rocky:

1. Foreman 40-0-0 vs. Walcott 51-16-2 & 51-17-2
2. Frazier 30-1-0 & 32-2-0 vs. Charles 80-10-1 & 80-11-1
3. Liston 35-1-0 & 35-2-0 vs. Moore 148-19-9
4. Norton 30-1-0 & 37-3-0 vs. LaStarza 37-0-0 & 53-3-0
5. Patterson 43-4-0 & 55-7-1 vs. Cockell 66-11-1
6. Quarry 37-4-4 & 43-5-4 vs. Matthews 81-3-5
7. Bonavena 46-6-1 vs. Louis 69-2-0
8. Ellis 30-6-0 vs. Layne 34-1-2
9. Folley 74-7-4 vs. Savold 93-39-3
10. Terrell 38-4-0 vs. Muscato 56-20-0
11. Chuvalo 34-11-2 & 66-17-2 vs. Shkor 29-18-2
12. Lyle 30-2-1 vs. Beshore 30-12-1
13. Shavers 54-5-1 vs. Reynolds 51-9-2
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs.
15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs.
16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs.
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3 vs.
18. Moore 184-22-11 vs.
19. Young 17-4-2 vs.
20. Williams 65-5-1 vs.
21. Jones 21-3-1 vs.
22. Cooper 27-8-1 & 33-11-1 vs.
23. L. Spinks 7-0-1 vs.


Ali vs. Holmes

1. Foreman 40-0-0 vs. Cooney 25-0-0
2. Frazier 30-1-0 & 32-2-0 vs. Mercer 18-0-0
3. Liston 35-1-0 & 35-2-0 vs. Witherspoon 15-0-0
4. Norton 30-1-0 & 37-3-0 vs. Norton 40-4-0
5. Patterson 43-4-0 & 55-7-1 vs. Berbick 18-1-1
6. Quarry 37-4-4 & 43-5-4 vs. J. Smith 14-1-0 & 44-16-1
7. Bonavena 46-6-1 vs. Bey 14-0-0
8. Ellis 30-6-0 vs. Snipes 22-0-0
9. Folley 74-7-4 vs. M. Frazier 10-0-0
10. Terrell 38-4-0 vs. L. Jones 24-0-1
11. Chuvalo 34-11-2 & 66-17-2 vs. Cobb 21-2-0
12. Lyle 30-2-1 vs. Weaver 19-8-0 & 41-17-1
13. Shavers 54-5-1 vs. Shavers 54-6-1 & 59-7-1
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs. Carl Williams 16-0-0
15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs. Ocasio 13-0-0
16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs. Butterbean 65-2-3
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3 vs. LeDoux 26-8-4
18. Moore 184-22-11 vs. Zanon 25-4-2
19. Young 17-4-2 vs. Evangelista 23-2-1
20. Cleveland Williams 65-5-1 vs. L. Rodriguez 35-7-1
21. Jones 21-3-1 vs. Ferguson 20-12-0
22. Cooper 27-8-1 & 33-11-1 vs. S. Frank 21-0-1
23. L. Spinks 7-0-1 vs. L. Spinks 10-2-2

Because some Heavyweight Champions beat the same opponent more then once, try matching Ali's Top Opponents against any other Heavyweight Champion.

Boxers that Ali fought & beat that were rated #3 or above at one time or another:
1. George Foreman (CH) 40-0-0 vs.
2. Joe Frazier (CH) 30-1-0 vs.
3. Joe Frazier (CH) 32-2-0 vs.
4. Sonny Liston (CH) 35-1-0 vs.
5. Sonny Liston (CH) 35-2-0 vs.
6. Ken Norton (1-CH) 30-1-0 vs.
7. Ken Norton (1-CH) 37-3-0 vs.
8. Floyd Patterson (CH) 43-4-0 vs.
9. Floyd Patterson (CH) 55-7-1 vs.
10. Jerry Quarry (1) 37-4-4 vs.
11. Jerry Quarry (1) 43-5-4 vs.
12. Oscar Bonavena (2) 46-6-1 vs.
13. Jimmy Ellis (2-CH) 30-6-0 vs.
14. Zora Folley (1) 74-7-4 vs.
15. Ernie Terrell (1-CH) 38-4-0 vs.
16. George Chuvalo (3) 34-11-2 vs.
17. George Chuvalo (3) 66-17-2 vs.
18. Ron Lyle (3) 30-2-1 vs.
19. Earnie Shavers (3) 54-5-1 vs.
20. Joe Bugner (3) 43-4-1 vs.
21. Joe Bugner (3) 51-6-1 vs.
22. Bob Foster (LH-CH) 49-5-0 vs.
23. Mac Foster (1) 28-1-0 vs.
24. Karl Mildenberger (1) 49-2-3 vs.
25. Archie Moore (LH-CH) - (1) 184-22-11 vs.
26. Jimmy Young (1) 17-4-2 vs.
27. Cleveland Williams (3) 65-5-1 vs.
28. Doug Jones (2) 21-3-1 vs.
29. Henry Cooper (2) 27-8-1 vs.
30. Henry Cooper (2) 33-11-1 vs.
31. Leon Spinks (CH) 7-0-1 vs.

The rating behind the names indicate the last monthly rating before the fight: Muhammad Ali’s top 10 rated opponents

1962
Archie Moore - # 5

1963
Doug Jones - # 3
Henry Cooper - # 9

1964
Sonny Liston - World Heavyweight Champion

1965
Sonny Liston - # 1
Floyd Patterson - # 1

1966
George Chuvalo - # 9
Henry Cooper - # 4
Karl Mildenberger - # 3
Cleveland Williams - # 3

1967
Ernie Terell - # 1
Zora Folley - # 2

1970
Jerry Quarry - # 1
Oscar Bonavena - # 3

1971
Joe Frazier - World Heavyweight Champion - LOSS
Jimmy Ellis - # 7

1972
Mac Foster - # 6
Jerry Quarry - # 2
Floyd Patterson - # 3
Bob Foster - World Light-Heavyweight Champion

1973
Joe Bugner - # 8
Ken Norton - # 9 - LOSS
Ken Norton - # 2

1974
Joe Frazier - # 1
George Foreman - World Heavyweight Champion

1975
Chuck Wepner - # 9
Ron Lyle - # 8
Joe Bugner - # 4
Joe Frazier - # 2

1976
Jimmy Young - # 3
Ken Norton - # 2

1977
Ernie Shavers - # 5

1978
Leon Spinks - # 9 - LOSS
Leon Spinks - World Heavyweight Champion

1980
Larry Holmes - Wolrd Heavyweight Champion - LOSS

1981
Trevor Berbick - # 7 - LOSS

Overall record: 56-5
Record vs. top 10 rated opponents (incl. Light-Heavyweight Champion): 31-5

Here's a list of the only contenders that Ali didn't box at one time or another. This does not count the time he was out of boxing or not the Champion. This is from 1964 to 1967 and 1973 to 1978, a total of 10 years:

Thad Spencer (3)
Duane Bobick (4)
Kallie Knoetze (6)
Amos Lincoln (6)
Howard Smith (7)
Johnny Boudreaux (8)
Eduardo Corletti (8)
Gerry Coetzee (8)
Roger Rischer (8)
Eddie Machen (9)
Henry Clark (9)
Ozzie Ocasio (9)
Stan Ward (9)
Hubert Hilton (9)
Johnny Persol (9)
Larry Middleton (10)
Randy Neumann (10)

[Tuan_Jim]

You're never going to change this fellow's mind. Fundamentally he is mad. His Ali fixation is an all-day, all-week, year round sickness. Weekdays, weekends, holidays even . . . just scan his activity.

Bothersome as he is, the man is not well and I suppose should be pitied.

[No Tomorrow]

**

[BoxBuzz]

As a Heavyweight he has the best resume of anyone.

Ali fought 38 different opponents 49 times in 61 bouts that were rated at one time or another in the top 10 in the World. - 80.3279%

Louis fought 43 different Opponents 54 times in 71 (or 72) bouts that were rated at one time or another in the top 10 in the World. - 76.056%

Rocky fought 13 different Opponents 16 times in 49 bouts that were rated at one time or another in the top 10 in the World. - 32.653%

Ali fought 37 out of 61 opponents while they were in the top 10. He beat 32 of them 52.459%

Louis fought 35 out of 71 opponents while they were rated in the top 10. He beat 32 of them 45.07%

Rocky fought 11 out of 49 opponents while they were rated in the top 10. He beat all 11 of them 22.44898%

Ali fought boxers that had an average pro record of 33-5-1 when he fought them.

Louis fought boxers that had an average pro record of 38-10-2.5 when he fought them.

Rocky fought boxers that had an average pro record of 29.7-10.16-1.78 when he fought them.

Just compare the list of Opponents that each fought, you can't tell me that Ali didn't box the better opponents.

Ali beat Foreman, Frazier 2 out of 3 times, Liston twice, Norton 2 out of 3 times, Patterson twice, Quarry twice, Bonavena, Ellis, Folley, Terrell, Chuvalo twice, Lyle & Shavers. I can go on, BUT I think you know what I mean.
Louis beat Greats like Baer, Schmeling, Walcott twice, Conn twice, Braddock, Carnera & Sharkey.

Compare them at the time they fought Ali or Louis, not just their overall record, and you will see what I am talking about.

Both of these Great boxers are among the best ever, I rate them 1-2. When I was a kid, most experts would say that it was Dempsey who was the Greatest, as time went on the experts would say it was Louis, now for many years, they say it's Ali. No one knows for sure and everyone has his or her opinions.

Just match up Ali's opponents with Louis's that they beat.

1. Foreman 40 (37 KO)-0-0 vs. Max Baer 50 (31 KO) -6-0
2. Frazier 30 (25 KO) -1-0 & 32 (27 KO) -2-0 vs. Schmeling 52 (37 KO) -7-4
3. Liston 35 (25 KO) -1-0 & 35 (25 KO)-2-0 vs. Braddock 50 (26 KO) -25-7
4. Norton 30 (23 KO) -1-0 & 37 (30 KO) -3-0 vs. Walcott 44 (27 KO) -11-2 & 44 (27 KO) -12-2
5. Patterson 43 (32 KO) -4-0 & 55 (40 KO) -7-1 vs. Conn 59 (13 KO) -10-1 & 62 (13 KO) -11-1
6. Quarry 37 (23 KO) -4-4 & 43 (25 KO) -5-4 vs. Nova 26 (17 KO) -2-4
7. Bonavena 46 (36 KO) -6-1 vs. Galento 76 (53 KO) -23-5
8. Ellis 30 (14 KO) -6-0 vs. Sharkey 38 (13 KO) -13-3
9. Folley 74 (40 KO) -7-4 vs. Farr 66 (18 KO) -20-13
10. Terrell 38 (18 KO) -4-0 vs. Carnera 82 (66 KO) -7-0
11. Chuvalo 34 (27 KO) -11-2 & 66 (57 KO)-17-2 vs. Godoy 53 (30) -8-7 & 53 (30 KO) -9-7
12. Lyle 30 (21 KO) -2-1 vs. Simon 34 (23 KO) -7-0 & 36 (25 KO) -9-1
13. Shavers 55 (53 KO) -5-1 vs. Buddy Baer 50 (47 KO) -5-0 & 50 (47 KO) -6-0
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs.
15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs.
16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs.
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3
18. Moore 184-22-11
19. Young 17-4-2
20. Williams 65-5-1
21. Jones 21-3-1
22. Cooper 27-8-1 & 33-11-1
23. L. Spinks 7-0-1

This is their records at the time(s) they fought Ali and Louis. You can also switch them around if you want; just try to pick the best against the best. Meaning you should have the top opponents that Ali boxed against the top opponents of Louis.

That’s 31 wins against 23 different opponents. All 23 opponents were rated #3 or better in the World at one time or another by Ring Magazine.


Lets do it with Tyson:

1. Foreman 40-0-0 vs. Holmes 48-2-0
2. Frazier 30-1-0 & 32-2-0 vs. M. Spinks 31-0-0
3. Liston 35-1-0 & 35-2-0 vs. P. Thomas 29-1-1
4. Norton 30-1-0 & 37-3-0 vs. Berbick 32-4-1
5. Patterson 43-4-0 & 55-7-1 vs. Tubbs 24-1-0
6. Quarry 37-4-4 & 43-5-4 vs. J. Smith 19-5-0
7. Bonavena 46-6-1 vs. Tucker 35-0-0
8. Ellis 30-6-0 vs. Biggs 15-0-0
9. Folley 74-7-4 vs. Bruno 32-2-0 & 40-4-0
10. Terrell 38-4-0 vs. C. Williams 22-2-0
11. Chuvalo 34-11-2 & 66-17-2 vs. Tillis 31-8-0
12. Lyle 30-2-1 vs. Ruddock 24-1-1 & 24-2-1
13. Shavers 54-5-1 vs. Botha 39-1-0
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs. M. Green 16-1-1
15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs. M. Frazier 16-1-0
16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs. Tillman 20-4-0
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3 vs. Stewart 26-1-0
18. Moore 184-22-11 vs.
19. Young 17-4-2 vs.
20. Williams 65-5-1 vs.
21. Jones 21-3-1 vs.
22. Cooper 27-8-1 & 33-11-1 vs.
23. L. Spinks 7-0-1 vs.


How about Rocky:

1. Foreman 40-0-0 vs. Walcott 51-16-2 & 51-17-2
2. Frazier 30-1-0 & 32-2-0 vs. Charles 80-10-1 & 80-11-1
3. Liston 35-1-0 & 35-2-0 vs. Moore 148-19-9
4. Norton 30-1-0 & 37-3-0 vs. LaStarza 37-0-0 & 53-3-0
5. Patterson 43-4-0 & 55-7-1 vs. Cockell 66-11-1
6. Quarry 37-4-4 & 43-5-4 vs. Matthews 81-3-5
7. Bonavena 46-6-1 vs. Louis 69-2-0
8. Ellis 30-6-0 vs. Layne 34-1-2
9. Folley 74-7-4 vs. Savold 93-39-3
10. Terrell 38-4-0 vs. Muscato 56-20-0
11. Chuvalo 34-11-2 & 66-17-2 vs. Shkor 29-18-2
12. Lyle 30-2-1 vs. Beshore 30-12-1
13. Shavers 54-5-1 vs. Reynolds 51-9-2
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs.
15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs.
16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs.
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3 vs.
18. Moore 184-22-11 vs.
19. Young 17-4-2 vs.
20. Williams 65-5-1 vs.
21. Jones 21-3-1 vs.
22. Cooper 27-8-1 & 33-11-1 vs.
23. L. Spinks 7-0-1 vs.


Ali vs. Holmes

1. Foreman 40-0-0 vs. Cooney 25-0-0
2. Frazier 30-1-0 & 32-2-0 vs. Mercer 18-0-0
3. Liston 35-1-0 & 35-2-0 vs. Witherspoon 15-0-0
4. Norton 30-1-0 & 37-3-0 vs. Norton 40-4-0
5. Patterson 43-4-0 & 55-7-1 vs. Berbick 18-1-1
6. Quarry 37-4-4 & 43-5-4 vs. J. Smith 14-1-0 & 44-16-1
7. Bonavena 46-6-1 vs. Bey 14-0-0
8. Ellis 30-6-0 vs. Snipes 22-0-0
9. Folley 74-7-4 vs. M. Frazier 10-0-0
10. Terrell 38-4-0 vs. L. Jones 24-0-1
11. Chuvalo 34-11-2 & 66-17-2 vs. Cobb 21-2-0
12. Lyle 30-2-1 vs. Weaver 19-8-0 & 41-17-1
13. Shavers 54-5-1 vs. Shavers 54-6-1 & 59-7-1
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs. Carl Williams 16-0-0
15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs. Ocasio 13-0-0
16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs. Butterbean 65-2-3
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3 vs. LeDoux 26-8-4
18. Moore 184-22-11 vs. Zanon 25-4-2
19. Young 17-4-2 vs. Evangelista 23-2-1
20. Cleveland Williams 65-5-1 vs. L. Rodriguez 35-7-1
21. Jones 21-3-1 vs. Ferguson 20-12-0
22. Cooper 27-8-1 & 33-11-1 vs. S. Frank 21-0-1
23. L. Spinks 7-0-1 vs. L. Spinks 10-2-2

Because some Heavyweight Champions beat the same opponent more then once, try matching Ali's Top Opponents against any other Heavyweight Champion.

Boxers that Ali fought & beat that were rated #3 or above at one time or another:
1. George Foreman (CH) 40-0-0 vs.
2. Joe Frazier (CH) 30-1-0 vs.
3. Joe Frazier (CH) 32-2-0 vs.
4. Sonny Liston (CH) 35-1-0 vs.
5. Sonny Liston (CH) 35-2-0 vs.
6. Ken Norton (1-CH) 30-1-0 vs.
7. Ken Norton (1-CH) 37-3-0 vs.
8. Floyd Patterson (CH) 43-4-0 vs.
9. Floyd Patterson (CH) 55-7-1 vs.
10. Jerry Quarry (1) 37-4-4 vs.
11. Jerry Quarry (1) 43-5-4 vs.
12. Oscar Bonavena (2) 46-6-1 vs.
13. Jimmy Ellis (2-CH) 30-6-0 vs.
14. Zora Folley (1) 74-7-4 vs.
15. Ernie Terrell (1-CH) 38-4-0 vs.
16. George Chuvalo (3) 34-11-2 vs.
17. George Chuvalo (3) 66-17-2 vs.
18. Ron Lyle (3) 30-2-1 vs.
19. Earnie Shavers (3) 54-5-1 vs.
20. Joe Bugner (3) 43-4-1 vs.
21. Joe Bugner (3) 51-6-1 vs.
22. Bob Foster (LH-CH) 49-5-0 vs.
23. Mac Foster (1) 28-1-0 vs.
24. Karl Mildenberger (1) 49-2-3 vs.
25. Archie Moore (LH-CH) - (1) 184-22-11 vs.
26. Jimmy Young (1) 17-4-2 vs.
27. Cleveland Williams (3) 65-5-1 vs.
28. Doug Jones (2) 21-3-1 vs.
29. Henry Cooper (2) 27-8-1 vs.
30. Henry Cooper (2) 33-11-1 vs.
31. Leon Spinks (CH) 7-0-1 vs.

The rating behind the names indicate the last monthly rating before the fight: Muhammad Ali’s top 10 rated opponents

1962
Alejandro Lavorante - # 10
Archie Moore - # 5

1963
Doug Jones - # 3
Henry Cooper - # 9

1964
Sonny Liston - World Heavyweight Champion

1965
Sonny Liston - # 1
Floyd Patterson - # 1

1966
George Chuvalo - # 9
Henry Cooper - # 4
Karl Mildenberger - # 3
Cleveland Williams - # 3

1967
Ernie Terell - # 1
Zora Folley - # 2

1970
Jerry Quarry - # 1
Oscar Bonavena - # 3

1971
Joe Frazier - World Heavyweight Champion - LOSS
Jimmy Ellis - # 7

1972
Mac Foster - # 6
Jerry Quarry - # 2
Floyd Patterson - # 3
Bob Foster - World Light-Heavyweight Champion

1973
Joe Bugner - # 8
Ken Norton - # 9 - LOSS
Ken Norton - # 2

1974
Joe Frazier - # 1
George Foreman - World Heavyweight Champion

1975
Chuck Wepner - # 9
Ron Lyle - # 8
Joe Bugner - # 4
Joe Frazier - # 2

1976
Jimmy Young - # 3
Ken Norton - # 2

1977
Ernie Shavers - # 5

1978
Leon Spinks - # 9 - LOSS
Leon Spinks - World Heavyweight Champion

1980
Larry Holmes - Wolrd Heavyweight Champion - LOSS

1981
Trevor Berbick - # 7 - LOSS

Overall record: 56-5
Record vs. top 10 rated opponents (incl. Light-Heavyweight Champion): 32-5

Here's a list of the only contenders that Ali didn't box at one time or another. This does not count the time he was out of boxing or not the Champion. This is from 1964 to 1967 and 1973 to 1978, a total of 10 years:

Thad Spencer (3)
Duane Bobick (4)
Kallie Knoetze (6)
Amos Lincoln (6)
Howard Smith (7)
Johnny Boudreaux (8)
Eduardo Corletti (8)
Gerry Coetzee (8)
Roger Rischer (8)
Eddie Machen (9)
Henry Clark (9)
Ozzie Ocasio (9)
Stan Ward (9)
Hubert Hilton (9)
Johnny Persol (9)
Larry Middleton (10)
Randy Neumann (10)

Woah! Hold it right there.....TOOO MUCH STUFF!!!!

hhascup just gave up some details of goodness. That can't be right can it? Those bits of info must be infiltrated with obfuscational algorithms...... right? I bet El Dufe can see right through those fax!


El Dufe.....how "ungood" was this Flim Flam Feller Ali? Can you construct an "ungood" scale on this charlatan, and give us his specific ungood ratings? Otherwise hhascup is going to have his way with all that objective...uh I mean objectionable info.

[BoxBuzz]

Thad Spencer (3)
Duane Bobick (4)
Kallie Knoetze (6)
Amos Lincoln (6)
Howard Smith (7)
Johnny Boudreaux (8)
Eduardo Corletti (8)
Gerry Coetzee (8)
Roger Rischer (8)
Eddie Machen (9)
Henry Clark (9)
Ozzie Ocasio (9)
Stan Ward (9)
Hubert Hilton (9)
Johnny Persol (9)
Larry Middleton (10)
Randy Neumann (10)

EL DUFE>>>>>NEVER MINED>>>>>>I PHOUND THE WEEKNESS IN HIS R-GU-MINT!!

THIS is the DEFINITIVE list of every great champion that was denied his fair and square opportunity of GRATENESS!!!

CASE CLOSED!!!

[littlepug]

As a Heavyweight he has the best resume of anyone.

Ali fought 38 different opponents 49 times in 61 bouts that were rated at one time or another in the top 10 in the World. - 80.3279%

Louis fought 43 different Opponents 54 times in 71 (or 72) bouts that were rated at one time or another in the top 10 in the World. - 76.056%

Rocky fought 13 different Opponents 16 times in 49 bouts that were rated at one time or another in the top 10 in the World. - 32.653%

Ali fought 37 out of 61 opponents while they were in the top 10. He beat 32 of them 52.459%

Louis fought 35 out of 71 opponents while they were rated in the top 10. He beat 32 of them 45.07%

Rocky fought 11 out of 49 opponents while they were rated in the top 10. He beat all 11 of them 22.44898%

Ali fought boxers that had an average pro record of 33-5-1 when he fought them.

Louis fought boxers that had an average pro record of 38-10-2.5 when he fought them.

Rocky fought boxers that had an average pro record of 29.7-10.16-1.78 when he fought them.

Just compare the list of Opponents that each fought, you can't tell me that Ali didn't box the better opponents.

Ali beat Foreman, Frazier 2 out of 3 times, Liston twice, Norton 2 out of 3 times, Patterson twice, Quarry twice, Bonavena, Ellis, Folley, Terrell, Chuvalo twice, Lyle & Shavers. I can go on, BUT I think you know what I mean.
Louis beat Greats like Baer, Schmeling, Walcott twice, Conn twice, Braddock, Carnera & Sharkey.

Compare them at the time they fought Ali or Louis, not just their overall record, and you will see what I am talking about.

Both of these Great boxers are among the best ever, I rate them 1-2. When I was a kid, most experts would say that it was Dempsey who was the Greatest, as time went on the experts would say it was Louis, now for many years, they say it's Ali. No one knows for sure and everyone has his or her opinions.

Just match up Ali's opponents with Louis's that they beat.

1. Foreman 40 (37 KO)-0-0 vs. Max Baer 50 (31 KO) -6-0
2. Frazier 30 (25 KO) -1-0 & 32 (27 KO) -2-0 vs. Schmeling 52 (37 KO) -7-4
3. Liston 35 (25 KO) -1-0 & 35 (25 KO)-2-0 vs. Braddock 50 (26 KO) -25-7
4. Norton 30 (23 KO) -1-0 & 37 (30 KO) -3-0 vs. Walcott 44 (27 KO) -11-2 & 44 (27 KO) -12-2
5. Patterson 43 (32 KO) -4-0 & 55 (40 KO) -7-1 vs. Conn 59 (13 KO) -10-1 & 62 (13 KO) -11-1
6. Quarry 37 (23 KO) -4-4 & 43 (25 KO) -5-4 vs. Nova 26 (17 KO) -2-4
7. Bonavena 46 (36 KO) -6-1 vs. Galento 76 (53 KO) -23-5
8. Ellis 30 (14 KO) -6-0 vs. Sharkey 38 (13 KO) -13-3
9. Folley 74 (40 KO) -7-4 vs. Farr 66 (18 KO) -20-13
10. Terrell 38 (18 KO) -4-0 vs. Carnera 82 (66 KO) -7-0
11. Chuvalo 34 (27 KO) -11-2 & 66 (57 KO)-17-2 vs. Godoy 53 (30) -8-7 & 53 (30 KO) -9-7
12. Lyle 30 (21 KO) -2-1 vs. Simon 34 (23 KO) -7-0 & 36 (25 KO) -9-1
13. Shavers 55 (53 KO) -5-1 vs. Buddy Baer 50 (47 KO) -5-0 & 50 (47 KO) -6-0
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs.
15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs.
16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs.
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3
18. Moore 184-22-11
19. Young 17-4-2
20. Williams 65-5-1
21. Jones 21-3-1
22. Cooper 27-8-1 & 33-11-1
23. L. Spinks 7-0-1

This is their records at the time(s) they fought Ali and Louis. You can also switch them around if you want; just try to pick the best against the best. Meaning you should have the top opponents that Ali boxed against the top opponents of Louis.

That’s 31 wins against 23 different opponents. All 23 opponents were rated #3 or better in the World at one time or another by Ring Magazine.


Lets do it with Tyson:

1. Foreman 40-0-0 vs. Holmes 48-2-0
2. Frazier 30-1-0 & 32-2-0 vs. M. Spinks 31-0-0
3. Liston 35-1-0 & 35-2-0 vs. P. Thomas 29-1-1
4. Norton 30-1-0 & 37-3-0 vs. Berbick 32-4-1
5. Patterson 43-4-0 & 55-7-1 vs. Tubbs 24-1-0
6. Quarry 37-4-4 & 43-5-4 vs. J. Smith 19-5-0
7. Bonavena 46-6-1 vs. Tucker 35-0-0
8. Ellis 30-6-0 vs. Biggs 15-0-0
9. Folley 74-7-4 vs. Bruno 32-2-0 & 40-4-0
10. Terrell 38-4-0 vs. C. Williams 22-2-0
11. Chuvalo 34-11-2 & 66-17-2 vs. Tillis 31-8-0
12. Lyle 30-2-1 vs. Ruddock 24-1-1 & 24-2-1
13. Shavers 54-5-1 vs. Botha 39-1-0
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs. M. Green 16-1-1
15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs. M. Frazier 16-1-0
16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs. Tillman 20-4-0
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3 vs. Stewart 26-1-0
18. Moore 184-22-11 vs.
19. Young 17-4-2 vs.
20. Williams 65-5-1 vs.
21. Jones 21-3-1 vs.
22. Cooper 27-8-1 & 33-11-1 vs.
23. L. Spinks 7-0-1 vs.


How about Rocky:

1. Foreman 40-0-0 vs. Walcott 51-16-2 & 51-17-2
2. Frazier 30-1-0 & 32-2-0 vs. Charles 80-10-1 & 80-11-1
3. Liston 35-1-0 & 35-2-0 vs. Moore 148-19-9
4. Norton 30-1-0 & 37-3-0 vs. LaStarza 37-0-0 & 53-3-0
5. Patterson 43-4-0 & 55-7-1 vs. Cockell 66-11-1
6. Quarry 37-4-4 & 43-5-4 vs. Matthews 81-3-5
7. Bonavena 46-6-1 vs. Louis 69-2-0
8. Ellis 30-6-0 vs. Layne 34-1-2
9. Folley 74-7-4 vs. Savold 93-39-3
10. Terrell 38-4-0 vs. Muscato 56-20-0
11. Chuvalo 34-11-2 & 66-17-2 vs. Shkor 29-18-2
12. Lyle 30-2-1 vs. Beshore 30-12-1
13. Shavers 54-5-1 vs. Reynolds 51-9-2
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs.
15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs.
16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs.
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3 vs.
18. Moore 184-22-11 vs.
19. Young 17-4-2 vs.
20. Williams 65-5-1 vs.
21. Jones 21-3-1 vs.
22. Cooper 27-8-1 & 33-11-1 vs.
23. L. Spinks 7-0-1 vs.


Ali vs. Holmes

1. Foreman 40-0-0 vs. Cooney 25-0-0
2. Frazier 30-1-0 & 32-2-0 vs. Mercer 18-0-0
3. Liston 35-1-0 & 35-2-0 vs. Witherspoon 15-0-0
4. Norton 30-1-0 & 37-3-0 vs. Norton 40-4-0
5. Patterson 43-4-0 & 55-7-1 vs. Berbick 18-1-1
6. Quarry 37-4-4 & 43-5-4 vs. J. Smith 14-1-0 & 44-16-1
7. Bonavena 46-6-1 vs. Bey 14-0-0
8. Ellis 30-6-0 vs. Snipes 22-0-0
9. Folley 74-7-4 vs. M. Frazier 10-0-0
10. Terrell 38-4-0 vs. L. Jones 24-0-1
11. Chuvalo 34-11-2 & 66-17-2 vs. Cobb 21-2-0
12. Lyle 30-2-1 vs. Weaver 19-8-0 & 41-17-1
13. Shavers 54-5-1 vs. Shavers 54-6-1 & 59-7-1
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs. Carl Williams 16-0-0
15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs. Ocasio 13-0-0
16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs. Butterbean 65-2-3
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3 vs. LeDoux 26-8-4
18. Moore 184-22-11 vs. Zanon 25-4-2
19. Young 17-4-2 vs. Evangelista 23-2-1
20. Cleveland Williams 65-5-1 vs. L. Rodriguez 35-7-1
21. Jones 21-3-1 vs. Ferguson 20-12-0
22. Cooper 27-8-1 & 33-11-1 vs. S. Frank 21-0-1
23. L. Spinks 7-0-1 vs. L. Spinks 10-2-2

Because some Heavyweight Champions beat the same opponent more then once, try matching Ali's Top Opponents against any other Heavyweight Champion.

Boxers that Ali fought & beat that were rated #3 or above at one time or another:
1. George Foreman (CH) 40-0-0 vs.
2. Joe Frazier (CH) 30-1-0 vs.
3. Joe Frazier (CH) 32-2-0 vs.
4. Sonny Liston (CH) 35-1-0 vs.
5. Sonny Liston (CH) 35-2-0 vs.
6. Ken Norton (1-CH) 30-1-0 vs.
7. Ken Norton (1-CH) 37-3-0 vs.
8. Floyd Patterson (CH) 43-4-0 vs.
9. Floyd Patterson (CH) 55-7-1 vs.
10. Jerry Quarry (1) 37-4-4 vs.
11. Jerry Quarry (1) 43-5-4 vs.
12. Oscar Bonavena (2) 46-6-1 vs.
13. Jimmy Ellis (2-CH) 30-6-0 vs.
14. Zora Folley (1) 74-7-4 vs.
15. Ernie Terrell (1-CH) 38-4-0 vs.
16. George Chuvalo (3) 34-11-2 vs.
17. George Chuvalo (3) 66-17-2 vs.
18. Ron Lyle (3) 30-2-1 vs.
19. Earnie Shavers (3) 54-5-1 vs.
20. Joe Bugner (3) 43-4-1 vs.
21. Joe Bugner (3) 51-6-1 vs.
22. Bob Foster (LH-CH) 49-5-0 vs.
23. Mac Foster (1) 28-1-0 vs.
24. Karl Mildenberger (1) 49-2-3 vs.
25. Archie Moore (LH-CH) - (1) 184-22-11 vs.
26. Jimmy Young (1) 17-4-2 vs.
27. Cleveland Williams (3) 65-5-1 vs.
28. Doug Jones (2) 21-3-1 vs.
29. Henry Cooper (2) 27-8-1 vs.
30. Henry Cooper (2) 33-11-1 vs.
31. Leon Spinks (CH) 7-0-1 vs.

The rating behind the names indicate the last monthly rating before the fight: Muhammad Ali’s top 10 rated opponents

1962
Alejandro Lavorante - # 10
Archie Moore - # 5

1963
Doug Jones - # 3
Henry Cooper - # 9

1964
Sonny Liston - World Heavyweight Champion

1965
Sonny Liston - # 1
Floyd Patterson - # 1

1966
George Chuvalo - # 9
Henry Cooper - # 4
Karl Mildenberger - # 3
Cleveland Williams - # 3

1967
Ernie Terell - # 1
Zora Folley - # 2

1970
Jerry Quarry - # 1
Oscar Bonavena - # 3

1971
Joe Frazier - World Heavyweight Champion - LOSS
Jimmy Ellis - # 7

1972
Mac Foster - # 6
Jerry Quarry - # 2
Floyd Patterson - # 3
Bob Foster - World Light-Heavyweight Champion

1973
Joe Bugner - # 8
Ken Norton - # 9 - LOSS
Ken Norton - # 2

1974
Joe Frazier - # 1
George Foreman - World Heavyweight Champion

1975
Chuck Wepner - # 9
Ron Lyle - # 8
Joe Bugner - # 4
Joe Frazier - # 2

1976
Jimmy Young - # 3
Ken Norton - # 2

1977
Ernie Shavers - # 5

1978
Leon Spinks - # 9 - LOSS
Leon Spinks - World Heavyweight Champion

1980
Larry Holmes - Wolrd Heavyweight Champion - LOSS

1981
Trevor Berbick - # 7 - LOSS

Overall record: 56-5
Record vs. top 10 rated opponents (incl. Light-Heavyweight Champion): 32-5

Here's a list of the only contenders that Ali didn't box at one time or another. This does not count the time he was out of boxing or not the Champion. This is from 1964 to 1967 and 1973 to 1978, a total of 10 years:

Thad Spencer (3)
Duane Bobick (4)
Kallie Knoetze (6)
Amos Lincoln (6)
Howard Smith (7)
Johnny Boudreaux (8)
Eduardo Corletti (8)
Gerry Coetzee (8)
Roger Rischer (8)
Eddie Machen (9)
Henry Clark (9)
Ozzie Ocasio (9)
Stan Ward (9)
Hubert Hilton (9)
Johnny Persol (9)
Larry Middleton (10)
Randy Neumann (10)

Bloody hell mate is that all just off the top of your head !

[DaveyMac]

As a Heavyweight he has the best resume of anyone.

Ali fought 38 different opponents 49 times in 61 bouts that were rated at one time or another in the top 10 in the World. - 80.3279%

Louis fought 43 different Opponents 54 times in 71 (or 72) bouts that were rated at one time or another in the top 10 in the World. - 76.056%

Rocky fought 13 different Opponents 16 times in 49 bouts that were rated at one time or another in the top 10 in the World. - 32.653%

Ali fought 37 out of 61 opponents while they were in the top 10. He beat 32 of them 52.459%

Louis fought 35 out of 71 opponents while they were rated in the top 10. He beat 32 of them 45.07%

Rocky fought 11 out of 49 opponents while they were rated in the top 10. He beat all 11 of them 22.44898%

Ali fought boxers that had an average pro record of 33-5-1 when he fought them.

Louis fought boxers that had an average pro record of 38-10-2.5 when he fought them.

Rocky fought boxers that had an average pro record of 29.7-10.16-1.78 when he fought them.

Just compare the list of Opponents that each fought, you can't tell me that Ali didn't box the better opponents.

Ali beat Foreman, Frazier 2 out of 3 times, Liston twice, Norton 2 out of 3 times, Patterson twice, Quarry twice, Bonavena, Ellis, Folley, Terrell, Chuvalo twice, Lyle & Shavers. I can go on, BUT I think you know what I mean.
Louis beat Greats like Baer, Schmeling, Walcott twice, Conn twice, Braddock, Carnera & Sharkey.

Compare them at the time they fought Ali or Louis, not just their overall record, and you will see what I am talking about.

Both of these Great boxers are among the best ever, I rate them 1-2. When I was a kid, most experts would say that it was Dempsey who was the Greatest, as time went on the experts would say it was Louis, now for many years, they say it's Ali. No one knows for sure and everyone has his or her opinions.

Just match up Ali's opponents with Louis's that they beat.

1. Foreman 40 (37 KO)-0-0 vs. Max Baer 50 (31 KO) -6-0
2. Frazier 30 (25 KO) -1-0 & 32 (27 KO) -2-0 vs. Schmeling 52 (37 KO) -7-4
3. Liston 35 (25 KO) -1-0 & 35 (25 KO)-2-0 vs. Braddock 50 (26 KO) -25-7
4. Norton 30 (23 KO) -1-0 & 37 (30 KO) -3-0 vs. Walcott 44 (27 KO) -11-2 & 44 (27 KO) -12-2
5. Patterson 43 (32 KO) -4-0 & 55 (40 KO) -7-1 vs. Conn 59 (13 KO) -10-1 & 62 (13 KO) -11-1
6. Quarry 37 (23 KO) -4-4 & 43 (25 KO) -5-4 vs. Nova 26 (17 KO) -2-4
7. Bonavena 46 (36 KO) -6-1 vs. Galento 76 (53 KO) -23-5
8. Ellis 30 (14 KO) -6-0 vs. Sharkey 38 (13 KO) -13-3
9. Folley 74 (40 KO) -7-4 vs. Farr 66 (18 KO) -20-13
10. Terrell 38 (18 KO) -4-0 vs. Carnera 82 (66 KO) -7-0
11. Chuvalo 34 (27 KO) -11-2 & 66 (57 KO)-17-2 vs. Godoy 53 (30) -8-7 & 53 (30 KO) -9-7
12. Lyle 30 (21 KO) -2-1 vs. Simon 34 (23 KO) -7-0 & 36 (25 KO) -9-1
13. Shavers 55 (53 KO) -5-1 vs. Buddy Baer 50 (47 KO) -5-0 & 50 (47 KO) -6-0
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs.
15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs.
16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs.
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3
18. Moore 184-22-11
19. Young 17-4-2
20. Williams 65-5-1
21. Jones 21-3-1
22. Cooper 27-8-1 & 33-11-1
23. L. Spinks 7-0-1

This is their records at the time(s) they fought Ali and Louis. You can also switch them around if you want; just try to pick the best against the best. Meaning you should have the top opponents that Ali boxed against the top opponents of Louis.

That’s 31 wins against 23 different opponents. All 23 opponents were rated #3 or better in the World at one time or another by Ring Magazine.


Lets do it with Tyson:

1. Foreman 40-0-0 vs. Holmes 48-2-0
2. Frazier 30-1-0 & 32-2-0 vs. M. Spinks 31-0-0
3. Liston 35-1-0 & 35-2-0 vs. P. Thomas 29-1-1
4. Norton 30-1-0 & 37-3-0 vs. Berbick 32-4-1
5. Patterson 43-4-0 & 55-7-1 vs. Tubbs 24-1-0
6. Quarry 37-4-4 & 43-5-4 vs. J. Smith 19-5-0
7. Bonavena 46-6-1 vs. Tucker 35-0-0
8. Ellis 30-6-0 vs. Biggs 15-0-0
9. Folley 74-7-4 vs. Bruno 32-2-0 & 40-4-0
10. Terrell 38-4-0 vs. C. Williams 22-2-0
11. Chuvalo 34-11-2 & 66-17-2 vs. Tillis 31-8-0
12. Lyle 30-2-1 vs. Ruddock 24-1-1 & 24-2-1
13. Shavers 54-5-1 vs. Botha 39-1-0
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs. M. Green 16-1-1
15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs. M. Frazier 16-1-0
16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs. Tillman 20-4-0
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3 vs. Stewart 26-1-0
18. Moore 184-22-11 vs.
19. Young 17-4-2 vs.
20. Williams 65-5-1 vs.
21. Jones 21-3-1 vs.
22. Cooper 27-8-1 & 33-11-1 vs.
23. L. Spinks 7-0-1 vs.


How about Rocky:

1. Foreman 40-0-0 vs. Walcott 51-16-2 & 51-17-2
2. Frazier 30-1-0 & 32-2-0 vs. Charles 80-10-1 & 80-11-1
3. Liston 35-1-0 & 35-2-0 vs. Moore 148-19-9
4. Norton 30-1-0 & 37-3-0 vs. LaStarza 37-0-0 & 53-3-0
5. Patterson 43-4-0 & 55-7-1 vs. Cockell 66-11-1
6. Quarry 37-4-4 & 43-5-4 vs. Matthews 81-3-5
7. Bonavena 46-6-1 vs. Louis 69-2-0
8. Ellis 30-6-0 vs. Layne 34-1-2
9. Folley 74-7-4 vs. Savold 93-39-3
10. Terrell 38-4-0 vs. Muscato 56-20-0
11. Chuvalo 34-11-2 & 66-17-2 vs. Shkor 29-18-2
12. Lyle 30-2-1 vs. Beshore 30-12-1
13. Shavers 54-5-1 vs. Reynolds 51-9-2
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs.
15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs.
16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs.
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3 vs.
18. Moore 184-22-11 vs.
19. Young 17-4-2 vs.
20. Williams 65-5-1 vs.
21. Jones 21-3-1 vs.
22. Cooper 27-8-1 & 33-11-1 vs.
23. L. Spinks 7-0-1 vs.


Ali vs. Holmes

1. Foreman 40-0-0 vs. Cooney 25-0-0
2. Frazier 30-1-0 & 32-2-0 vs. Mercer 18-0-0
3. Liston 35-1-0 & 35-2-0 vs. Witherspoon 15-0-0
4. Norton 30-1-0 & 37-3-0 vs. Norton 40-4-0
5. Patterson 43-4-0 & 55-7-1 vs. Berbick 18-1-1
6. Quarry 37-4-4 & 43-5-4 vs. J. Smith 14-1-0 & 44-16-1
7. Bonavena 46-6-1 vs. Bey 14-0-0
8. Ellis 30-6-0 vs. Snipes 22-0-0
9. Folley 74-7-4 vs. M. Frazier 10-0-0
10. Terrell 38-4-0 vs. L. Jones 24-0-1
11. Chuvalo 34-11-2 & 66-17-2 vs. Cobb 21-2-0
12. Lyle 30-2-1 vs. Weaver 19-8-0 & 41-17-1
13. Shavers 54-5-1 vs. Shavers 54-6-1 & 59-7-1
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs. Carl Williams 16-0-0
15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs. Ocasio 13-0-0
16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs. Butterbean 65-2-3
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3 vs. LeDoux 26-8-4
18. Moore 184-22-11 vs. Zanon 25-4-2
19. Young 17-4-2 vs. Evangelista 23-2-1
20. Cleveland Williams 65-5-1 vs. L. Rodriguez 35-7-1
21. Jones 21-3-1 vs. Ferguson 20-12-0
22. Cooper 27-8-1 & 33-11-1 vs. S. Frank 21-0-1
23. L. Spinks 7-0-1 vs. L. Spinks 10-2-2

Because some Heavyweight Champions beat the same opponent more then once, try matching Ali's Top Opponents against any other Heavyweight Champion.

Boxers that Ali fought & beat that were rated #3 or above at one time or another:
1. George Foreman (CH) 40-0-0 vs.
2. Joe Frazier (CH) 30-1-0 vs.
3. Joe Frazier (CH) 32-2-0 vs.
4. Sonny Liston (CH) 35-1-0 vs.
5. Sonny Liston (CH) 35-2-0 vs.
6. Ken Norton (1-CH) 30-1-0 vs.
7. Ken Norton (1-CH) 37-3-0 vs.
8. Floyd Patterson (CH) 43-4-0 vs.
9. Floyd Patterson (CH) 55-7-1 vs.
10. Jerry Quarry (1) 37-4-4 vs.
11. Jerry Quarry (1) 43-5-4 vs.
12. Oscar Bonavena (2) 46-6-1 vs.
13. Jimmy Ellis (2-CH) 30-6-0 vs.
14. Zora Folley (1) 74-7-4 vs.
15. Ernie Terrell (1-CH) 38-4-0 vs.
16. George Chuvalo (3) 34-11-2 vs.
17. George Chuvalo (3) 66-17-2 vs.
18. Ron Lyle (3) 30-2-1 vs.
19. Earnie Shavers (3) 54-5-1 vs.
20. Joe Bugner (3) 43-4-1 vs.
21. Joe Bugner (3) 51-6-1 vs.
22. Bob Foster (LH-CH) 49-5-0 vs.
23. Mac Foster (1) 28-1-0 vs.
24. Karl Mildenberger (1) 49-2-3 vs.
25. Archie Moore (LH-CH) - (1) 184-22-11 vs.
26. Jimmy Young (1) 17-4-2 vs.
27. Cleveland Williams (3) 65-5-1 vs.
28. Doug Jones (2) 21-3-1 vs.
29. Henry Cooper (2) 27-8-1 vs.
30. Henry Cooper (2) 33-11-1 vs.
31. Leon Spinks (CH) 7-0-1 vs.

The rating behind the names indicate the last monthly rating before the fight: Muhammad Ali’s top 10 rated opponents

1962
Alejandro Lavorante - # 10
Archie Moore - # 5

1963
Doug Jones - # 3
Henry Cooper - # 9

1964
Sonny Liston - World Heavyweight Champion

1965
Sonny Liston - # 1
Floyd Patterson - # 1

1966
George Chuvalo - # 9
Henry Cooper - # 4
Karl Mildenberger - # 3
Cleveland Williams - # 3

1967
Ernie Terell - # 1
Zora Folley - # 2

1970
Jerry Quarry - # 1
Oscar Bonavena - # 3

1971
Joe Frazier - World Heavyweight Champion - LOSS
Jimmy Ellis - # 7

1972
Mac Foster - # 6
Jerry Quarry - # 2
Floyd Patterson - # 3
Bob Foster - World Light-Heavyweight Champion

1973
Joe Bugner - # 8
Ken Norton - # 9 - LOSS
Ken Norton - # 2

1974
Joe Frazier - # 1
George Foreman - World Heavyweight Champion

1975
Chuck Wepner - # 9
Ron Lyle - # 8
Joe Bugner - # 4
Joe Frazier - # 2

1976
Jimmy Young - # 3
Ken Norton - # 2

1977
Ernie Shavers - # 5

1978
Leon Spinks - # 9 - LOSS
Leon Spinks - World Heavyweight Champion

1980
Larry Holmes - Wolrd Heavyweight Champion - LOSS

1981
Trevor Berbick - # 7 - LOSS

Overall record: 56-5
Record vs. top 10 rated opponents (incl. Light-Heavyweight Champion): 32-5

Here's a list of the only contenders that Ali didn't box at one time or another. This does not count the time he was out of boxing or not the Champion. This is from 1964 to 1967 and 1973 to 1978, a total of 10 years:

Thad Spencer (3)
Duane Bobick (4)
Kallie Knoetze (6)
Amos Lincoln (6)
Howard Smith (7)
Johnny Boudreaux (8)
Eduardo Corletti (8)
Gerry Coetzee (8)
Roger Rischer (8)
Eddie Machen (9)
Henry Clark (9)
Ozzie Ocasio (9)
Stan Ward (9)
Hubert Hilton (9)
Johnny Persol (9)
Larry Middleton (10)
Randy Neumann (10)

THANK YOU HENRY!

All the made up quotes and stories and sparring legends you want Duce won't put a dent in that wall of facts.

Back to your basement trollduce.

[Bobbyptsd]

I'd have him #1 at heavyweight all time.

I'm not sure where exactly, but somewhere in the 10-15 range pfp.

I know he wasn't actually that good, would have been handled pretty easily by Rudi Lubbers, that he was actually a coward who fought fights fixed by the mob, the illuminati and the Pope, that he was a racist who was also gay and a traitor. I know his prime only lasted about a month and a half, and the rest of the time he looked bad.

I know all that thanks to our resident OCD Ali expert, but I can't help but trust my own eyes more.

[gilgamesh]

I'd have him #1 at heavyweight all time.

I'm not sure where exactly, but somewhere in the 10-15 range pfp.

I know he wasn't actually that good, would have been handled pretty easily by Rudi Lubbers, that he was actually a coward who fought fights fixed by the mob, the illuminati and the Pope, that he was a racist who was also gay and a traitor. I know his prime only lasted about a month and a half, and the rest of the time he looked bad.

I know all that thanks to our resident OCD Ali expert, but I can't help but trust my own eyes more.

[Heartbreak_Kid79]

Another II Duce post bashing Ali? lol

When he lost to Spinks he was way past his prime, and already showing signs of physical illness.

Ali is the greatest heavyweight and top 5 P4P in my humble opinion

[DaveyMac]

Muhammad Ali is not,

In everybody's Top 10

Reasons
* Numerous controversial bouts
* Poor performances
* Clown behavior in the Ring
* Recipient of 'favoritism' by inept scoring officials
* Disrespectful behavior
* Unsportsmanlike

I have it him at #11 at Heavyweight

that's a stupid thing to say even for you.

[DaveyMac]

Fair and Balanced Top 5

#1...... Jack Dempsey
#2...... Joe Louis
#3...... Larry Holmes
#4...... James J. Jeffries
#5...... Rocky Marciano

No way Muhammad Ali moves ahead of these Gentleman.

Absurd.

[evrenb]

Is Muhammad Ali In Everybody's 'Top 10'

A recent Boxing Magazine article does 'not' have him listed in the Top 10.

I dont know 'everybody' so how can that be answered? He is in mine...not in yours I take it?

[hhascup]

Davey Mc,

A Spanish Phrase............... Alfredo Evangelista...........Muhammad Ali at his best......

He fought Alfredo Evangelista in 1977, that was past Ali's prime.

You can pick just about anyone's record a part even SRR!

[hhascup]

Fair and Balanced Top 5

#1...... Jack Dempsey
#2...... Joe Louis
#3...... Larry Holmes
#4...... James J. Jeffries
#5...... Rocky Marciano

No way Muhammad Ali moves ahead of these Gentleman.

Up until the mid 1960's most boxing experts had Dempsey #1. In the Associated Press Mid-Century Poll in 1950, Dempsey was voted the Greatest fighter, not just the Greatest heavyweight BUT the Greatest fighter. He received 251 points, followed by Louis with 104, Armstrong 16, Tunney 6, Benny Leonard 5, Jack Johnson 4 and Jim Jeffries with 2.

He was also voted the 3rd Greatest Male Athlete, behind Jim Thorpe and Babe Ruth.

The people that I talked too many years ago that actually saw him fight, all said he was the best.

With that said, this poll was done before Ali. I respect everyone's opinion and several boxing people still rate Dempsey and the others you have listed very high, But not to list Ali in the top 10 as a heavyweight is going some.

Just to let you know, I went over every Boxing Historian and Boxing expert’s list of their top Heavyweight Champions and none of them rated Lennox Lewis, Larry Holmes or George Foreman over Muhammad Ali.

Most of them had Ali and Louis as #1 and #2. I Have 46 boxing Historian or Expert rating and here's what they came out with:

1. Ali 26 Louis 13 Dempsey 2 Marciano 2 (Duva & Certo) Tyson, Jeffries & Johnson 1
2. Ali 9 Louis 22
3. Ali 5 Louis 3
4. Ali 3 Louis 4
5. Ali 2 Louis 0
6. Ali 0 Louis 4
7. Ali 0 Louis 0
8. Ali 0 Louis 0
9. Ali 1 Louis 0
10. Ali 0 Louis 0

OTHER OPINIONS ON GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT: Some of these are counted in my totals BUT some aren't because I don't have their full Top 10.
INTERNATIONAL BOXING RESEARCH ORGANIZATION (IBRO): Joe Louis (USA)
JIM AMATO (Amato Boxing): Muhammad Ali (USA)
TRACY CALLIS (Historian, Great Fighters of the Past): Jim Jeffries (USA)
DAN CUOCO (Historian, Director of IBRO): Joe Louis (USA)
BARRY DESKINS (Historian, Cyber Boxing Zone and BoxRec): Muhammad Ali (USA)
STEPHEN GORDON (Cyber Boxing Zone): Muhammad Ali (USA)
MIKE HUNNICUT (Historian, Writer, Film Collector): Jack Dempsey (USA)
ERIC JORGENSEN (Historian): Muhammad Ali (USA)
Alan Sugar (Historian, Former Fighter and Referee): Joe Louis (USA)
CURTIS NARIMATSU (Writer and Historian): Muhammad Ali (USA)

[hhascup]

Davey Mc,

A Spanish Phrase............... Alfredo Evangelista...........Muhammad Ali at his best......

He fought Alfredo Evangelista in 1977, that was past Ali's prime.

You can pick just about anyone's record a part even SRR!

So what you're saying, is the bout with Alfredo Evangelista.........'doesn't count'.

But a {KO 3} win over pathetic Brian London is an 'impressive' win for Cassius Clay.............

I like the way you think.............

They all count But Ali was 35 when he fought Evangelista in 1977 and still won easily. When Dempsey was 35 he was already retired for 3 years. The biggest fault against Dempsey is that he drew the color line, or his management did. Harry Wills the top contender for several years and never got a title shot.

[evrenb]

I would argue that Ali beat better opponents in non title fights than the others did in their title fights..

[hhascup]

Don't get me wrong, Dempsey doesn't get enough credit with most of today's boxing people. Last year I had the honor of making the Presentation and Inducting him into the New York State Boxing Hall of Fame. The year before I did the same for SRR and Jake LaMotta among others.

Bert Sugar use to have Dempsey at #1 followed by Louis and then Ali. Then he changed it to Louis at #1 followed by Ali and then Dempsey. I asked him why the change and he said because he listens to what others, meaning boxing experts that really know what there talking about, had to say.

[BoxBuzz]

Who Said,

That Muhammad Ali did not have one of the most impressive Boxing Records.

He did.

But he had some sorry performances as well........

Historical!

haha. You just brought Il Duce to act like he is in a conscious state. That's monumental...lol


Apparently facts have a sobering and medicinal effect even on the most compromised minds!

[SteveO]

Most of them had Ali and Louis as #1 and #2. I Have 46 boxing Historian or Expert rating and here's what they came out with:

1. Ali 26 Louis 13 Dempsey 2 Marciano 2 (Duva & Certo) Tyson, Jeffries & Johnson 1
2. Ali 9 Louis 22
3. Ali 5 Louis 3
4. Ali 3 Louis 4
5. Ali 2 Louis 0
6. Ali 0 Louis 4
7. Ali 0 Louis 0
8. Ali 0 Louis 0
9. Ali 1 Louis 0
10. Ali 0 Louis 0

OTHER OPINIONS ON GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT: Some of these are counted in my totals BUT some aren't because I don't have their full Top 10.
INTERNATIONAL BOXING RESEARCH ORGANIZATION (IBRO): Joe Louis (USA)
JIM AMATO (Amato Boxing): Muhammad Ali (USA)
TRACY CALLIS (Historian, Great Fighters of the Past): Jim Jeffries (USA)
DAN CUOCO (Historian, Director of IBRO): Joe Louis (USA)
BARRY DESKINS (Historian, Cyber Boxing Zone and BoxRec): Muhammad Ali (USA)
STEPHEN GORDON (Cyber Boxing Zone): Muhammad Ali (USA)
MIKE HUNNICUT (Historian, Writer, Film Collector): Jack Dempsey (USA)
ERIC JORGENSEN (Historian): Muhammad Ali (USA)
Alan Sugar (Historian, Former Fighter and Referee): Joe Louis (USA)
CURTIS NARIMATSU (Writer and Historian): Muhammad Ali (USA)

Sorry, but Il Duce obviously knows more than these guys

[thunderfromdownunder]

Top 5 heavyweight of all time, probably top 10 P4P off all time

[TheWigwam]

Definitely top 5, most likely top 3, possibly no 1, I'd have to have a real think about it but unquestionably top 5 for me.