Prime Earnie Shavers vs. a prime George Foreman?

[NYDominican]

A prime Earnie Shavers vs. a prime George Foreman.

What advantages (If any) would Earnie have over George?

What advantages (If any) would George have over Earnie?

What do you see happening in this fight?

Who would win?

Why?

[Syntax Error]

Two autobots with phenomenal power & dreadful stamina, but I think George's superior chin would see him through.

It would probably be similar to the Foreman -v- Lyle canvass cleaning bout, with both of them taking more than one count, but I see a tiring Foreman applying the finisher to an even more tired Shavers in about 4 rounds & that's being optimistic.

[Duch]

Two autobots with phenomenal power & dreadful stamina, but I think George's superior chin would see him through.

It would probably be similar to the Foreman -v- Lyle canvass cleaning bout, with both of them taking more than one count, but I see a tiring Foreman applying the finisher to an even more tired Shavers in about 4 rounds & that's being optimistic.

x2

[drunkenpiper36]

on paper it looks like a good match. But in all reality, I think Foreman kicks his ass.

[gilgamesh]

Two autobots with phenomenal power & dreadful stamina, but I think George's superior chin would see him through.

It would probably be similar to the Foreman -v- Lyle canvass cleaning bout, with both of them taking more than one count, but I see a tiring Foreman applying the finisher to an even more tired Shavers in about 4 rounds & that's being optimistic.

I think you pretty well nailed it

[yancey]

on paper it looks like a good match. But in all reality, I think Foreman kicks his ass.

Yep, I also vote for an ass kicking by GF.

[Heartbreak_Kid79]

A powerful slugfest, but Geroge wins by Knockout!

[Vladimir5555]

Foreman KO 4

[Nile4000]

As powerful as Earnie is, George would get to him quick, and kayo him in the second round. Too strong and confident.

[SenorPipino]

A washed up Ellis almost had Shavers out in the first. In his next bout, Shavers didn't make it through round 1 against Quarry.

Why should we believe the suspect jawed Shavers would survive 3 minutes with Foreman?

[Kalan]

It'd be like Lyle vs Shavers.. Both were very slow, but Lyle was the much better absorber while having the height, weight, and reach advantages.

Lyle took everything Earnie dished out, though he had to get off the deck.. With his superior size and strength he overpowered and beat poor Earnie down, much like Bernardo Mercardo did. Foreman would do the same thing to Shavers because he was bigger and stronger than Lyle -- and punched harder.

[Ambling Alp II]

A washed up Ellis almost had Shavers out in the first. In his next bout, Shavers didn't make it through round 1 against Quarry.

Why should we believe the suspect jawed Shavers would survive 3 minutes with Foreman?

OK, I will play the Devil's advocate.
Ellis was still a highly rated contender when Shavers fought him. Shavers knocked out Ellis in the first round. Ellis gave Lyle and Bugner tough fights after that. He lasted until the 9th round with Frazier after Shavers stopped him in one. He certainly had "something left" when Shavers stopped him.

Shavers came close to stopping Lyle. Lyle came very close to stopping Foreman. It stands to reason that Shavers would a serious threat.

Almost anything could happen in a Shavers fight. If he fought rematches with several of his opponents (whether he won or lost) the result could have been very different. He may have lost to someone he beat or beat someone he had lost to.

It is not a stretch at all to say that Shavers had a serious chance against Foreman.

[Tony1244]

Foreman KO4. But GF may very well have gotten knocked down or worse.

Shavers had something in common w/ Jimmy Young. They had their moments against fighters much better than they were, but they could both look dreadful against mediocrity.

[Kalan]

Foreman KO4. But GF may very well have gotten knocked down or worse.

Shavers had something in common w/ Jimmy Young. They had their moments against fighters much better than they were, but they could both look dreadful against mediocrity.

It's always extremely dangerous for a very small Heavyweight to fight a puncher.. Ellis fought most of his career fights at Middleweight when the Shavers fight was made.. Ellis had Shavers knocked out, but he got reckless as he went for the finish.. Jerry Quarry was watching the fight.. "Ellis had him going and he could have finished Shavers easy.. He got careless.. I know exactly how to beat Shavers and get him in the 1st round." It was the only time I ever heard Quarry call the round an opponent would fall.

[Tony1244]

Foreman KO4. But GF may very well have gotten knocked down or worse.

Shavers had something in common w/ Jimmy Young. They had their moments against fighters much better than they were, but they could both look dreadful against mediocrity.

It's always extremely dangerous for a very small Heavyweight to fight a puncher.. Ellis fought most of his career fights at Middleweight when the Shavers fight was made.. Ellis had Shavers knocked out, but he got reckless as he went for the finish.. Jerry Quarry was watching the fight.. "Ellis had him going and he could have finished Shavers easy.. He got careless.. I know exactly how to beat Shavers and get him in the 1st round." It was the only time I ever heard Quarry call the round an opponent would fall.

Quarry was the underdog against Shavers and Lyle and won. Quarry was the "overdog" against Ellis, and Frazier 2 and lost.

[Kalan]

That's okay... Given his counterpunching style -- and even if Quarry were well trained, sharp, and confident, and he usually wasn't -- he should have been the underdog against Frazier and Ellis all day... and a big favorite over big, slow swingers like Lyle and Shavers who gave you chances to throw.

Ellis didn't give you a thing and Frazier was dead in your nose hole, too strong inside for Quarry... Ellis did extremely well with with the turtle-slow Bonavena and Chuvalo... I always wanted to see Quarry-Bonavena.. I think Oscar would have bullied and mauled Jerry after taking frightful punishment.. I'm sorry that fight was never made.. I wouldn't bet on an Ellis-Lyle fight. You expect Ellis to box him silly, but a frustrated big man with dynamite punching power is dangerous for a little guy.. Ellis had good power for a blown up Middleweight, but if Lyle got one on him he's gone.

[SenorPipino]

A washed up Ellis almost had Shavers out in the first. In his next bout, Shavers didn't make it through round 1 against Quarry.

Why should we believe the suspect jawed Shavers would survive 3 minutes with Foreman?

OK, I will play the Devil's advocate.
Ellis was still a highly rated contender when Shavers fought him. Shavers knocked out Ellis in the first round. Ellis gave Lyle and Bugner tough fights after that. He lasted until the 9th round with Frazier after Shavers stopped him in one. He certainly had "something left" when Shavers stopped him.

Shavers came close to stopping Lyle. Lyle came very close to stopping Foreman. It stands to reason that Shavers would a serious threat.

Almost anything could happen in a Shavers fight. If he fought rematches with several of his opponents (whether he won or lost) the result could have been very different. He may have lost to someone he beat or beat someone he had lost to.

It is not a stretch at all to say that Shavers had a serious chance against Foreman.

You know, AA, I'm just of the opinion that Ellis was never a true championship threat after he was KO'd by Frazier in 1970. He certainly was finished after Ali stopped him a year later.

He beat a string of journeymen after the Ali defeat but including the Shaver's bout, Ellis won only 2 of his final 8 fights.

I consider him over-the-hill when he got into the ring with Shavers.

And no matter what, I don't think Shaver's delicate chin would survive Foreman's bombs.

And we know that Foreman, even as an old man (boxingwise, anyways) possesed the quality chin that would hold up to Shaver's big shots.

[Ambling Alp II]

I don't know about him being finished. Ring Magazine still had Ellis as the #3 contender going into the Shavers. (Not that they are always accurate.) He didn't look bad against Ali in 1971. He fought weak competition between Ali and Shavers. He did win those fights.

I don't think you can go by what happened after he fought Shavers. He was getting older and taking more punishment. Even then he did't look bad against Lyle and lasted awhile against Frazier. You always have to look at how the guy was looking shortly before the fight you are talking a bout (in this case Ellis-Shavers).

An old Foreman never really fought anyone remotely near Shavers power. An Foreman was hurt in several fights against guys who were nowhere near Shavers' level in the power department.

[Kalan]

I'm just of the opinion that Ellis was never a true championship threat after he was KO'd by Frazier in 1970. He certainly was finished after Ali stopped him a year later

You make a great point.. Jimmy Ellis looked great when he peaked during the 8-man Heavyweight Elimination Tournament which he won handily... He destroyed Leotis Martin in what I believe was his best fight ever -- certainly the peak fight of his career.. He boxed the ears off Oscar Bonavena---who dominated Karl Mildenberger in his previous fight---and he schooled Jerry Quarry. He looked like a good match-up for Frazier.

But what happened to Ellis after he won the Heavyweight Title is a puzzle.. He looked terrible against an aging Floyd Patterson... Nobody but the referee---and sole judge of the fight---thought Ellis beat Patterson. Ellis looked ridiculously bad against Frazier. He seemed to come back a bit against an aging Chuvalo. That was the last fight he looked like only Jimmy Ellis could look.. I think it was Chuvalo more than Ellis that made him look good. He looked underweight and very weak against Ali -- and he never looked strong and fast after that like he did during the tournament. Jimmy Young wasn't a puncher, but I often think of Jimmy Young in the same context as Jimmy Ellis.. Young looked brilliant against Foreman -- and he never did again.

The Shavers fight presented an opportunity for Ellis. He had Shavers badly hurt and he tore after him recklessly. A prime Ellis wouldn't do that. But that fight inspired Jerry Quarry. After watching Ellis-Shavers, Quarry was confident he could get Shavers out of there -- cuz of the way he covered up when hurt.