Is there a worse division in boxing than HW right now?

[Boxerbeetle]

Fair point. I don't think "super cruiserweight division" has much of a ring to it, but I suppose we can work on the name.

The introduction of a super heavyweight division would greatly damage boxing and the change would be hugely unpopular. It will never happen.

Considering the amount of new weightclasses that have been added over the years, I don't think anyone can say that it will never happen.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Wladmir may not be the most exciting to watch, but then again I don't find Hopkins or Ward all that exciting to watch. Come to think of it Mayweather is only so great because he has a big mouth. If Wladamir had a personality like Mayweather then you would worship the ground he walked on. His style is very awkward to beat so you have to admire him. He will probably go down as an all time top 5 HW, the stats don't lie. Emmanual Stewart sang his praises big time.

If he were a lout like Mayweather I would worship the ground he walks on? What are you talking about? That's an extraordinary statement. Drivel.

"The stats don't lie". Oh but they do. That's why they need to be studied, and subjected to rational analysis. Otherwise simpletons would say: 'This fighter won five heavyweight title fights, he's clearly much better than this fighter who went 0-1 in heavyweight title fights. The stats don't lie!'

And the unnamed fighters above turn out to be John Ruiz and David Tua.

Quite right, if mayweather ends up 50-0 which is quite possible, is he the greatest ever...of course not, he has been lucky to have been in an era of multiple belts, and as great as he is, never faced the one guy in his prime who might have given him an argument - though I think Mayweather would have one.

Stastics are not greatness, Henry Armstrong lost his first three, yet arguably has the most remarkable record in boxing.

Wlad and Vitali should be respected however, they reduced the rest of the division to rubble, because none of the contenders wanted to learn their trade by facing one another, but waited for a shot that all of them knew they couldn't win.

Would wlad have beaten Holmes or Ali, I doubt it, but who knows. Vitali would definitely have been competitive in any era, Wlad, I'm not so sure, athletically and physically he is gifted, but would he have been terrified of Liston, or a peak Tyson, I think so. I'd have picked Vitali to beat Tyson, he would have faced him down, and made Mike doubt himself, but who is greater subjectively? For me, Tyson, his reign of terror, can be either under or over rated, but it is impressive nontheless.

[Tuan_Jim]

I'd have picked Vitali to beat Tyson, he would have faced him down, and made Mike doubt himself, but who is greater subjectively? For me, Tyson, his reign of terror, can be either under or over rated, but it is impressive nontheless.

How would Vitali overcome the massive speed deficit he would suffer versus Mike Tyson? He would be as befuddled as Bonecrusher Smith. If he landed square, which I doubt he could, how would his fists that couldn't knock down old fat chinny Corrie Sanders and old fat chinny Shannon Briggs hurt Mike Tyson? He battled exhaustion after just six rounds versus an old fat Lennox Lewis. The pace of a peak Mike Tyson was far more frenzied than any version of Lennox Lewis.

Vitali is a perfect example of a man with impressive sounding stats that fall apart under close scrutiny.

[Monte Fisto]

Id say there is worse. However its definately the worst of the more prestigeous divisons at present. Does anyone think that the corruption in boxing has driven the top athletes away from the sport, and it seems to be hurting the heavweight division more than any other?

[Emmseegee]

As a boxing fan with absolutely no interest in the heavyweight division I believe that the introduction of a super heavyweight division would dramatically improve boxing. Not immediately, but long term there would be an improvement.

We would see heavyweights again who were athletic 6'2" fighters etc instead of watching over sized oddity's......
We should call the cruiserweight division 'Heavyweights' and the current oversized heavy's can be moved over to germany or russia permanently for all i care. lol

[Ian1973]

I'd have picked Vitali to beat Tyson, he would have faced him down, and made Mike doubt himself, but who is greater subjectively? For me, Tyson, his reign of terror, can be either under or over rated, but it is impressive nontheless.

How would Vitali overcome the massive speed deficit he would suffer versus Mike Tyson? He would be as befuddled as Bonecrusher Smith. If he landed square, which I doubt he could, how would his fists that couldn't knock down old fat chinny Corrie Sanders and old fat chinny Shannon Briggs hurt Mike Tyson? He battled exhaustion after just six rounds versus an old fat Lennox Lewis. The pace of a peak Mike Tyson was far more frenzied than any version of Lennox Lewis.

Vitali is a perfect example of a man with impressive sounding stats that fall apart under close scrutiny.

How? Two defeats one retired injured and the other stopped because of a cut when ahead on ALL scorecards. Vitali possibly should've retired unbeaten. The only question being would he have gone on to win the Lewis fight? I believe he would but at least it can be argued either way as none of us can prove something that didn't happen.

[Ian1973]

I'd have picked Vitali to beat Tyson, he would have faced him down, and made Mike doubt himself, but who is greater subjectively? For me, Tyson, his reign of terror, can be either under or over rated, but it is impressive nontheless.

How would Vitali overcome the massive speed deficit he would suffer versus Mike Tyson? He would be as befuddled as Bonecrusher Smith. If he landed square, which I doubt he could, how would his fists that couldn't knock down old fat chinny Corrie Sanders and old fat chinny Shannon Briggs hurt Mike Tyson? He battled exhaustion after just six rounds versus an old fat Lennox Lewis. The pace of a peak Mike Tyson was far more frenzied than any version of Lennox Lewis.

Vitali is a perfect example of a man with impressive sounding stats that fall apart under close scrutiny.

How? Two defeats one retired injured and the other stopped because of a cut when ahead on ALL scorecards. Vitali possibly should've retired unbeaten. The only question being would he have gone on to win the Lewis fight? I believe he would but at least it can be argued either way as none of us can prove something that didn't happen.

[Cap]

Call it the dreadnought class after the super battleships of the Great War. It doesn't really matter. You'll likely never see another really dangerous heavyweight under 16 stone 7. Good athletes find other pursuits, the clubs are gone, yadda yadda. We're stuck with what we have unless some freak comes along who likes to inflict pain in the ring.

[Tuan_Jim]

How? Two defeats one retired injured and the other stopped because of a cut when ahead on ALL scorecards. Vitali possibly should've retired unbeaten. The only question being would he have gone on to win the Lewis fight? I believe he would but at least it can be argued either way as none of us can prove something that didn't happen.

Ha, well then if only he hadn't quit versus Byrd. If only Lewis hadn't punched his face into a bloody pulp.

If, if, if.

How any of the scorecard, stats and fight record points you roll out relates to how he would cope fighting men better and more dangerous than middle-aged fatties like Sanders, Lewis, and Briggs is beyond me.

[Ian1973]

How? Two defeats one retired injured and the other stopped because of a cut when ahead on ALL scorecards. Vitali possibly should've retired unbeaten. The only question being would he have gone on to win the Lewis fight? I believe he would but at least it can be argued either way as none of us can prove something that didn't happen.

Ha, well then if only he hadn't quit versus Byrd. If only Lewis hadn't punched his face into a bloody pulp.

If, if, if.

How any of the scorecard, stats and fight record points you roll out relates to how he would cope fighting men better and more dangerous than middle-aged fatties like Sanders, Lewis, and Briggs is beyond me.

How would Lewis have coped against Hassem Rahman? - oh yep Rahman knocked him out. Ali was almost knocked out by Henry Cooper who lost 14 fights during his career. It could even be argued that the only time Ali faced Frazier when both were at peaks Frazier won.

You can find an argument against absolutely anyone if you want to it doesn't mean they weren't greats.

[Cap]

Okay. If Klitschko were out of the picture right now, would any of the rest be able to dominate the division? I don't think so. The titles would soon be split amongst a half dozen fighters and stay that way for years to come. There is something wrong with a sport where guys in their late 30s and 40s don't just compete, but rank in the top ten. Heavyweights have always been late bloomers but the 30-something trend is ridiculous.

[Tuan_Jim]

You're absolutely right Cap.

Throughout heavyweight history, and as recently as the 1990s, a new wave of young 20somethings would come through in four or five year cycles and purge the older fighters.

Young fighters come through in a trickle now, and many modern fans seem bafflingly happy with this set up, an utterly bizarre era of King & Queen Klitschko and the Realm of the Overweights. These fans have even applied a retroactive logic to it all, that heavyweights actually 'mature' in their 30s and that 'bulk' is what's needed to win boxing matches. Well, let them have it I say.

Something is terribly wrong, and you have to be deluded or in denial not to see it.

[Ian1973]

Hopkins isn't doing too bad either at 49 and he's not a heavyweight.

30 is the new 20 and all that??

[moogie101]

The very fact that Tyson Fury is on the verge of a title shot if he gets past Chisora again, yet has beaten nobody says all there is about how poor the Heavys division is right now.

[Horse]

The very fact that Tyson Fury is on the verge of a title shot if he gets past Chisora again, yet has beaten nobody says all there is about how poor the Heavys division is right now.

Fury - Chisora, Cunningham & Johnson.

Fury has a good record.

[palooka]

The very fact that Tyson Fury is on the verge of a title shot if he gets past Chisora again, yet has beaten nobody says all there is about how poor the Heavys division is right now.

Fury - Chisora, Cunningham & Johnson.

Fury has a good record.

He's not taken the division by storm though.

[Horse]

He's not taken the division by storm though.

Who has?

[Boxerbeetle]

He's not taken the division by storm though.

Who has?

No-one in the last 20 years, that's the problem.

[palooka]

He's not taken the division by storm though.

Who has?

Though he could have made a better fist of it.

[Crease]

Is there a worse division in boxing than HW right now?

Hard question. There are a couple of weight divisions that are really poor right now. But Heavyweight is definitely up there somewhere.

[moogie101]

The very fact that Tyson Fury is on the verge of a title shot if he gets past Chisora again, yet has beaten nobody says all there is about how poor the Heavys division is right now.

Fury - Chisora, Cunningham & Johnson.

Fury has a good record.

Those three fighters are hardly world beaters though, which again makes the point about how poor the Heavy division is that just throwaing out those three names is in your mind enough to warrant a title match.

Plus Chisora clearly wasn't motivated in his fight & I expect a very different result in the rematch, Cunningham was a blown up cruiser who ony lost due to the vast size difference, oh & dropped Fury as well lets not forget. Johnson again just a poor guy in a poor division.

[Horse]

Those three fighters are hardly world beaters though, which again makes the point about how poor the Heavy division is that just throwaing out those three names is in your mind enough to warrant a title match.

Plus Chisora clearly wasn't motivated in his fight & I expect a very different result in the rematch, Cunningham was a blown up cruiser who ony lost due to the vast size difference, oh & dropped Fury as well lets not forget. Johnson again just a poor guy in a poor division.

Who's beaten better in recent years?

Fury doesn't deserve abuse, he's doing far more than most heavyweights.

[Boxerbeetle]

Those three fighters are hardly world beaters though, which again makes the point about how poor the Heavy division is that just throwaing out those three names is in your mind enough to warrant a title match.

Plus Chisora clearly wasn't motivated in his fight & I expect a very different result in the rematch, Cunningham was a blown up cruiser who ony lost due to the vast size difference, oh & dropped Fury as well lets not forget. Johnson again just a poor guy in a poor division.

Who's beaten better in recent years?

Fury doesn't deserve abuse, he's doing far more than most heavyweights.

I'm not a particularly big fan of Fury, but I agree that he gets a lot more abuse than he should, he's entertaining & has a much better record than Leapei who ended up as mandatory for Wlad, or Chisora who has managed to fight Vitali & Haye despite being beaten by Fury.