Gerrie Coetzee vs.....

Marciano Frazier · Post by **Marciano Frazier** » 10 Dec 2005, 18:35

RazorKO wrote:
J-C wrote:
RazorKO wrote:People give HUGE amounts of credit to Douglas in knocking out Tyson
No usualy enough to put him at 10th best heavyweight ever on any list.
Ive seen people say that Douglas on that night beats anyone in history.
Nuff said.

People who say that are ignorant and are usually extreme hard-core Tyson fans.

Marciano Frazier · Post by **Marciano Frazier** » 10 Dec 2005, 19:03

RazorKO wrote:
umm i did see the 8th round where page annihalatess and knocks out coetzee
I was meant to say the 7th round where Page was groggling around ring. And to prove you have seen the fight, name the exact combination that knocked out Coetzee.

ur right it happened so damm fast and easy, it wasnt much of a fight
Maybe you should quote the whole thing instead of picking lines that suits you, Bruno was nearly knocked out flat by Jumbo Cummings. If Coetzee had him like that, Coetzee would of flattened him. If the bell rung to save him, then Coetzee would of KO'ed him the next round.

thomas was green
Nope, he was ranked 6th in the world and had kncoked out Tillis with ease, also beat Witherspoon, Weaver, Ratliff etc.

no he wasnt, he was very much in his prime. this happened AFTER the tate and spinx fights.
Again you are quoting which suits your arguement. I said Coetzee was green as he neglected his jab and movement, in the Tate fight he didnt show a jab nor did he in the Spinks fight. The Coetzee after Weaver improved and was at his best from 81 -83.

WOW what a monumental classic all time accomplishment! considering he knocked out a drugged up boozer dokes. btw, u seem to have a high opinion of dokes, where do u rate him?
It is a accomplishment seeing as Coetzee beat him around the ring, flooring him in the 5th and eventually KO'ing him in a VERY onsided fight.....the same Dokes 6 years later who was in drug rehab and was past his prime gave a PRIME Holyfield probably THE toughest fight of his career.
marcianos 3 best wins(record wise, not best fought fight)

KO 1 jersey joe walcott

KO 8 ezzard charles

KO 9 archie moore
Old Walcott gave Rocky a boxing lesson.
Old Lightheavyweight Charles gave Rocky a good fight and also nearly stopped him on cuts in the rematch.
Old lightheavyweight Moore floored Rocky and was floored 5 times himself....but a year later was knocked out flat by a green Floyd Patterson.

uhh letss compare, we have 3 Hall of famers on marcianos resume and one champion and 2 journeyman on coetzees resume
.

You seem to forget that Spinks himself held the linear title. No one gave Coetzee a chance again Spinks.....and Gerrie walked right through him. Spinks also beat the no1 contender Mercado, beat Ali who came of a good win over Shavers and gave Holmes a good fight. Spinks had more heart than anyone did while he was fighting.

Maybe you should quote the whole thing instead of picking lines that suits you, Bruno was nearly knocked out flat by Jumbo Cummings. If Coetzee had him like that, Coetzee would of flattened him. If the bell rung to save him, then Coetzee would of KO'ed him the next round.

Pure speculation- fact is, Bruno splattered Coetzee in one round. Imagine if something like that had happened to Marciano! You'd never hear the end of it.

Coetzee's win over Dokes "VERY one-sided"? An 88-85, 87-85 and 87-86 lead is pretty enormous, now, isn't it? Dokes "groomed for super-stardom and at his absolute peak" also strikes me as a pretty ridiculous claim. Dokes had already drawn with Ossie Occasio and Mike Weaver and was out of shape and underprepared, reportedly on drugs, when he lost to Coetzee. And a comparison with Tyson is even more farfetched- the difference in ability between Mike Tyson and Michael Dokes is like the difference between night and day. Had Coetzee beaten an underprepared, partied-up prime Mike Tyson, then of course he'd have gotten a lot of credit. Beating an out-of-shape, underprepared ordinary contender like Dokes, though, in a fight which was not particularly one-sided, is nothing special.

Old Walcott gave Rocky a boxing lesson.

Late-blooming Walcott was ahead 8-4, 7-4-1, and 7-5 before being flattened by Rocky, and was then blitzed in one round in the rematch. A "boxing lesson"?

Old Lightheavyweight Charles gave Rocky a good fight and also nearly stopped him on cuts in the rematch.

Former great world heavyweight champion Charles, who was a pound-for-pound top 15 all-time great and was only two years older than Marciano, put on arguably the best performance of his career the first time, but was still beaten to a pulp and decisively decisioned, and then lost badly in the rematch outside the cut, which was probably caused by an elbow.

Old lightheavyweight Moore floored Rocky and was floored 5 times himself....but a year later was knocked out flat by a green Floyd Patterson.

Moore, perhaps the greatest light heavyweight of all time, on a 21-fight winning streak, having beaten half the heavyweight top 10 while still soundly upholding his light heavyweight title, lost badly to Marciano outside one flash knockdown, and proceeded to win his next 11 fights in a row over the next year before, drained from rapidly losing and gaining weight over extremely short time intervals(Moore lost and regained 20 pounds in just a couple months during that year while actively fighting on a monthly- now think about the excuses Roy Jones Jr. gets for losing 20 pounds over six months without even fighting), he outboxed Patterson for the first four rounds but was caught with a barrage and knocked out in the fifth. He remained light heavyweight champion and an elite heavyweight contender clear into the early 1960s.

You seem to forget that Spinks himself held the linear title.

And it seems you forget that Spinks was probably the worst linear heavyweight champion of all time.

By the way, let's just take a look at your 1981-1983 peak for Coetzee. In those years, he lost to Renaldo Snipes, drew with Pinklon Thomas, and beat Michael Dokes. A 1-1-1 record against ordinary contenders, along with five wins over journeymen. As you yourself admit, even at his peak, the guy couldn't even go better than .500 against average top 10 contenders.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 10 Dec 2005, 19:07

Ambling Alp wrote:I will say that Coetzee did get a bad decision against Snipes, and that he may be slightly underrated. He was at about the same level as the rest of the alphabet soup champions of the 1980's.
And it is possible that Lewis would be lackluster and might just paw with his jab,which he did sometimes. If that happened Coetzee might last several rounds, maybe even go the distance. Still to think that he had more than a punchers chance to win against Marciano or Lewis is ridiculaus. He simply wasn't close their level.

Was he at the level of Crack Head McCall though? Cos if he was he ceratinly stands a good chance of KOing Lewis with 1 punch. Just like McCall did. Hey, and didn't that big lump Hasim Rahman do the same thing?

Like I said before, don't mention Lewis in the same sentence as Rocky Marciano.

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 10 Dec 2005, 21:35

Marciano Frazier wrote:Former great world heavyweight champion Charles, who was a pound-for-pound top 15 all-time great and was only two years older than Marciano, put on arguably the best performance of his career the first time, but was still beaten to a pulp and decisively decisioned, and then lost badly in the rematch outside the cut, which was probably caused by an elbow.

Good post but the Marciano cut was definitely caused by a left hook. Right after the punch landed, Marciano started pawing at the nose. Also, on the version with commentary by Marciano himself, Marciano commented when the left hook landed that his nose was stinging badly. Only later did he realize that his nose stung because it was split in half at the tip. The referee made a good call. If it was stopped due to the cut, Marciano would have correctly lost by technical knockout.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 10 Dec 2005, 21:45

Nope, he was ranked 6th in the world and had kncoked out Tillis with ease, also beat Witherspoon, Weaver, Ratliff etc.

O i see, so since thomas is ranked 6th, he isnt green. yet a 2nd ranked gerrie coetzee is green?

Bruno was nearly knocked out flat by Jumbo Cummings

coetzee was knocked down by 11-6 184lb ridiculous Hartmut Sasse

I said Coetzee was green as he neglected his jab and movement, in the Tate fight he didnt show a jab nor did he in the Spinks fight. The Coetzee after Weaver improved and was at his best from 81 -83.

what did improve??? he certainly didnt become a better fighter and lost to snipes, and was knocked out by greg page.

any version of frank bruno flattens coetzee.

It is a accomplishment seeing as Coetzee beat him around the ring, flooring him in the 5th and eventually KO'ing him in a VERY onsided fight.....the same Dokes 6 years later who was in drug rehab and was past his prime gave a PRIME Holyfield probably THE toughest fight of his career

dokes was not as good as u think . u make him out to be a god and in reality he was not even a top 10 heavy of the 80s

dokes fought the best fight of his career vs holyfield. he was not past his best.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 10 Dec 2005, 21:49

can anyone picture this?

john tate 15 unanimous marciano

mike weaver TKO 13 marciano

Renaldo Snipes W 10 Marciano

Greg Page KO 8 Marciano

can anyone picture this without laughing?

coetzee KO 13 walcott

coetzee KO 1 walcott

coetzee W 15 charles

coetzee KO 8 charles

coetzee KO 9 moore

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 11 Dec 2005, 00:17

this guy rates gerrie coetzee 3rd WORST heavyweight champion of all time

" 3 - Gerrie Coetzee - Gerrie Coetzee was a strong hard punching South African, he won twenty two fights fighting almost exclusively out of South Africa against unknown opponents. In October 1979 he challenged the unbeaten but ordinary "Big" John Tate for the vacant WBA heavyweight crown, Coetzee lost a dull 15 round decision to Tate but just Two fights later was again contesting the WBA crown against Mike Weaver. Weaver had Ko'd Tate while behind on points with just fifteen seconds remaining of the fifteenth and final round of their title fight sixth months earlier. Coetzee was this time knocked out in thirteen rounds. A further four wins against ordinary opposition, a points loss to Renaldo Snipes and a draw with Pinklon Thomas followed before Coetzee was rewarded with a third title challenge against Michael Dokes. Dokes was a competent champion but another waste of talent, often out of shape and a fighter with a huge drug problem, Dokes entered the ring against Coetzee in a cocaine haze and was Ko'd in ten rounds, he later commented that he couldn't even remember the fight. Coetzee lost the title in his very first defence getting stopped by Greg Page in eight rounds and the rest of his career consisted of just six fights spanning twelve years with four wins, all against unknown opposition and two defeats, a one round loss to Frank Bruno in London in 1986 and a ten round Ko loss to former middleweight and super middleweight champion Iran Barkley in 1997. Coetzee was basically a hard punching but very limited fighter who got lucky."

http://www.iain.hampson.btinternet.co.uk/worst_five.htm

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 11 Dec 2005, 00:35

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:this guy rates gerrie coetzee 3rd WORST heavyweight champion of all time

" 3 - Gerrie Coetzee - Gerrie Coetzee was a strong hard punching South African, he won twenty two fights fighting almost exclusively out of South Africa against unknown opponents. In October 1979 he challenged the unbeaten but ordinary "Big" John Tate for the vacant WBA heavyweight crown, Coetzee lost a dull 15 round decision to Tate but just Two fights later was again contesting the WBA crown against Mike Weaver. Weaver had Ko'd Tate while behind on points with just fifteen seconds remaining of the fifteenth and final round of their title fight sixth months earlier. Coetzee was this time knocked out in thirteen rounds. A further four wins against ordinary opposition, a points loss to Renaldo Snipes and a draw with Pinklon Thomas followed before Coetzee was rewarded with a third title challenge against Michael Dokes. Dokes was a competent champion but another waste of talent, often out of shape and a fighter with a huge drug problem, Dokes entered the ring against Coetzee in a cocaine haze and was Ko'd in ten rounds, he later commented that he couldn't even remember the fight. Coetzee lost the title in his very first defence getting stopped by Greg Page in eight rounds and the rest of his career consisted of just six fights spanning twelve years with four wins, all against unknown opposition and two defeats, a one round loss to Frank Bruno in London in 1986 and a ten round Ko loss to former middleweight and super middleweight champion Iran Barkley in 1997. Coetzee was basically a hard punching but very limited fighter who got lucky."

http://www.iain.hampson.btinternet.co.uk/worst_five.htm

Don't just repeat stuff because it gels with your own views. This sort of superficial crap doesn't stand up to even the most cursory scrutiny. As an aspiring historian, I'd have expected you to pick that up.

This eejit had never heard of Leon Spinks????

This lad has a worse case of hyperbole than you, Brocky.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 11 Dec 2005, 01:35

stop licking coetzee's nuts and face the fact he was not a great heavyweight nor should we be comparing gerrie coetzee to greats like marciano and lewis. coetzee was a good heavyweight and champion who was lucky to come along when he did. but he was not a great fighter.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 11 Dec 2005, 04:06

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:stop licking coetzee's nuts and face the fact he was not a great heavyweight nor should we be comparing gerrie coetzee to greats like marciano and lewis. coetzee was a good heavyweight and champion who was lucky to come along when he did. but he was not a great fighter.

Hey what about that lame thing you cut and pasted above? Did you like the way I lampooned it? It was fekkin shite, Brocky and I'd be ashamed to have had to use something like that to support my arguements.

As an aspiring historian you should be more careful about your sources.

Now gimme the good oil about them posters you talk to...

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 11 Dec 2005, 12:34

Coetzee's win over Dokes "VERY one-sided"? An 88-85, 87-85 and 87-86 lead is pretty enormous, now, isn't it? Dokes "groomed for super-stardom and at his absolute peak" also strikes me as a pretty ridiculous claim. Dokes had already drawn with Ossie Occasio and Mike Weaver and was out of shape and underprepared, reportedly on drugs, when he lost to Coetzee. And a comparison with Tyson is even more farfetched- the difference in ability between Mike Tyson and Michael Dokes is like the difference between night and day. Had Coetzee beaten an underprepared, partied-up prime Mike Tyson, then of course he'd have gotten a lot of credit. Beating an out-of-shape, underprepared ordinary contender like Dokes, though, in a fight which was not particularly one-sided, is nothing special.

Yep the fight was one sided if you have saw it. The Douglas - Tyson fight was one sided also, but one of the judges had Tyson AHEAD in the fight, so thats your arguement out of the window. Plus Dokes was in shape, he was weighed far less than he did when he fought against Weaver in the rematch, only a pound heavier when he won the title.

So now Dokes is an ordinary fighter. Say that to Holyfield and see what he thinks about statement. Old Dokes gave Prime Holyfield his toughest fight of his career, that alone makes him not ordinary.

By the way, let's just take a look at your 1981-1983 peak for Coetzee. In those years, he lost to Renaldo Snipes, drew with Pinklon Thomas, and beat Michael Dokes. A 1-1-1 record against ordinary contenders, along with five wins over journeymen. As you yourself admit, even at his peak, the guy couldn't even go better than .500 against average top 10 contenders.

This has proved to me you havent seen the Snipes fight, but I went over why Coetzee should of won so cant be bothered to explain ahain if you are not going to read it. So because you hold Snipes loss against him, why not hold the draw Lewis had against Holyfield? Most fans dont even recognise that as a draw, so why not do the same to Coetzee.
Again Pinklon Thomas I did an anaylsis of the fight on why Coeztee deserved the nod so again cant be bothered to type it all again.

As you yourself admit, even at his peak, the guy couldn't even go better than .500 against average top 10 contenders

Show me it, I dont remember saying that statement.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 11 Dec 2005, 13:20

the following 80s heavies were better than coetzee

mike tyson
larry holmes
tony tucker
mike weaver
tim witherspoon
PRIME pinklon thomas
tony tubbs
greg page
john tate
trevor berbick

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 12 Dec 2005, 14:02

BrocktonBlockbuster49

dokes was not as good as u think . u make him out to be a god and in reality he was not even a top 10 heavy of the 80s

What a stupid post, he was second only to Holmes in the 80s. And because of Holmes was in his 'semi retirement' stage by then Dokes was THE Heavyweight champ and Coetzee destroyed him.

Prime Dokes destroyed by Coetzee
Past his prime Dokes gives Holyfield life and death and Holyfield was to of said after the fight 'Is this what I really do for a living?'.