How will it affect Froch's legacy if Groves gets shafted?

[Horse]

Please don't feed the Horse.
It's bad enough being stuck in a field.

Which stoppages in major fights were worse than the Groves stoppage?

[stevedoc]

give it 5 years and it will be forgoten , take nigel benn he went out with a bit of a damp ending losing his last 3 fights but no ones remembers him for that the only thing that would screw up froch is if he gets another gift and after wards tells everyone he was winning again that would turn people against quickly just like what happened to naz , once naz lost people hated him .

[Parson Cross]

There's an echo in here - give him some polo mints.

[palooka]

I'm sure other people will have their opinions and some boxers do elevate the sport to a performance or to artistic highs; with the best will in the world I'd not put Froch up there though. I know an actor and she speaks of her 'body of work' and I know a counsellor who refers to 'the work' - it just strikes me as really pretentious but each to their own.

I don’t think it’s pretentious in the sense of attributing more importance to it than it’s worth—believe you me, this isn’t tiddly winks—and people tend to over misuse the word pretentious anyway. It depends on the importance the person places on it or whether they’re just doing it as an affectation. Either way, if it’s good enough for Marvin…

It's a sport and a business and a dangerous one; there are other occupations and endeavors even more worthwhile and with less acclaim and reward.

I get your point and appreciate it but don't really go with it.

I've read the Hagler biography and he was a fantastic fighter and is an example to people but even he has said and done some daft things.

[danconnollyeire]

TD ignore horse poo because that's what his opinion is worth.
With you all the way.
When Groves has been soundly beaten - again - then matters of legacy etc will take care of themselves.

It was one of the worst stoppages in boxing history.

Howard Foster disgraced himself and embarrassed British boxing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El0uQJy9j_4

IJL for the Mac vs Ovil fight tops it by a mile! Was crap though, Froch was far worse round 1

[Final round]

I didn't realise Howard is well known for early stoppages.
"Hmm for tonight's bill we could do with a 'safety first, slightly early stoppage. Who do you recommend?"
"Oh I know just the fella!"

[Horse]

IJL for the Mac vs Ovil fight tops it by a mile! Was crap though, Froch was far worse round 1

That was a very bad stoppage, but taking the importance of the fight into consideration, I'd say the Groves stoppage was worse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oDnQ0TkpiA

[Final round]

I didn't realise Howard is well known for early stoppages.
"Hmm for tonight's bill we could do with a 'safety first, slightly early stoppage. Who do you recommend?"
"Oh I know just the fella!"

If you watch him in fights, he hovers if he thinks a fighter's in trouble then jumps in to err on the side of caution.

Yep ames DeGale vs Dilks and Smith spring to mind, both a bit 'safety first'. He certainly was not safety first when Froch was hunched like a drunk in Round 1.

[palooka]

I didn't realise Howard is well known for early stoppages.
"Hmm for tonight's bill we could do with a 'safety first, slightly early stoppage. Who do you recommend?"
"Oh I know just the fella!"

If you watch him in fights, he hovers if he thinks a fighter's in trouble then jumps in to err on the side of caution.

Yep ames DeGale vs Dilks and Smith spring to mind, both a bit 'safety first'. He certainly was not safety first when Froch was hunched like a drunk in Round 1.

That's my main gripe with it; he was fair enough to let Froch box through a bad patch and did not extend the same courtesy to Groves; let a man get knocked down in a world title fight unless he's trapped/propped in a corner getting proper shelled. Groves is lucky he forced the rematch - there have been other fighters get a bad stoppage and never get to box for a title again.

[Broomhall]

amazing how these topics digress. Personally I felt (one of a tiny minority I know) the stoppage was ok in the context of the whole fight. When Froch was hurt he was fresh and looked ok, I thought when Groves was hurt he was exhausted and ready to go. But there you go.

As for Frochs legacy if he loses, some of it depends how he loses and also if he carries on and continues to lose. Froch hasnt transcended the sport in the way an Ali, Jones, Leonard, Hagler did-he has lost big fights, and I think is seen as a good solid warrior, but not as an exceptional world champion so I am not sure he has a real "legacy" to leave in the same way as those other fighters did.

Defeats by their nature can leave a lasting memory and I think the best legacy for Froch would be to leave the sport with his marbles and loads of cash in the bank and hope he doesnt lose it through daft business deals.

[Final round]

That's my main gripe with it; he was fair enough to let Froch box through a bad patch and did not extend the same courtesy to Groves; let a man get knocked down in a world title fight unless he's trapped/propped in a corner getting proper shelled. Groves is lucky he forced the rematch - there have been other fighters get a bad stoppage and never get to box for a title again.

Yeah he is lucky really, the stoppage was a blessing in disguise earning Groves the rematch. To use what he learnt from the first fight and giving him a chance to correct it. Plus a decent wedge from such a big event.

[Monte Fisto]

I think it will hurt Carl more if he wins by groves getting shafted, to hell with what the fans think I think the internal truth in the long run will burn him inside. I hope that this fight produces a truthful outcome regardless of who wins.

[whiskey]

It must pulverise Horse every time he types the 1. spot on his monthly pound-for-pound lists

[Horse]

It must pulverise Horse every time he types the 1. spot on his monthly pound-for-pound lists

I like Froch.

[whiskey]

It must pulverise Horse every time he types the 1. spot on his monthly pound-for-pound lists

I like Froch.

I dread to think how you'd be if you didn't.

You do realise, it wasn't Carl who stopped the fight right ?

Carl was robbed of a grandstand finish by the referee. He lost out much worse than Groves who was f**ked as soon as Froch started having his way with him.

Groves is getting bummed bigstyle at Wembley.

[Horse]

I dread to think how you'd be if you didn't.

You do realise, it wasn't Carl who stopped the fight right ?

I haven't been slagging Froch off.

Carl was robbed of a grandstand finish by the referee. He lost out much worse than Groves who was f**ked as soon as Froch started having his way with him.

We don't know what would have happened, because Foster stopped the fight for no acceptable reason.

[Bricks]

Over egged? Nah. In general, that is the Froch fan club trying to spin it. But that has been done to death.

I'm just not sure that the general public or more mainstream fans will ever go back to his wins against Pascal and AA. Because of his late arrival in the mainstream, these fight will be the main things the majority think of.

Not saying it is fair, but legacy is created away from these boards and the die hards

I think it has. People have made it out to be the worst stoppage ever, it clearly isn't, and the demonisation of Howard Foster was the biggest pile of bollocks we've had to put up with this year, and there's been some right bollocks spouted. I could see the stoppage coming from the sixth, and told the people I was watching it with that Groves's tactics were wrong from the 4-5th onward. Everyone in the boxing universe knows how Howard operates, Groves should have taken a knee to get some breathing space.

According to your other paragraphs, the casuals will have forgotten about the fight almost as soon as it ends, so they won't be setting anyone's legacy. The legacy isn't created by this board, the piss heads on site or the PPV watchers, it's created by his work, and his body of work is fine.

The most interesting aspect, for me, is the way both fights have played out across social media. I see some people who go to shows and, if asked, would claim to be die hards talk complete and utter tripe online to the point where you wonder if they have any understanding of boxing whatsoever. There’s been some unbelievable nonsense flying about. It’s not only tedious, it’s ill-informed.

Spot on.swear to God I called it the round before groves getting stopped and that's what happened.groves ed early but it woulda been another 20 seconds

[charliebox324]

I think it has. People have made it out to be the worst stoppage ever, it clearly isn't, and the demonisation of Howard Foster was the biggest pile of bollocks we've had to put up with this year, and there's been some right bollocks spouted.

It was one of the worst stoppages ever.

Everyone in the boxing universe knows how Howard operates, Groves should have taken a knee to get some breathing space.

Groves shouldn't have taken a knee, he wasn't that badly hurt.

Some Posters On Here Should Get In Touch With The British Boxing Of Control.Since They Think They Think Are In The Know About Refereeing.Groves Was Sagging The Left Hook Hurt Him.He Should Have Stuck To The Game Plan From Opening Bell To End Of Round 6.Masterclass.Then Inexperience, Bravado Thinking He Could Finish Carl At His Own Game.And The Way Howard Foster Has Been Treated Is A Disgrace.A Honest Decision Is A Good Decision.He Would Have Got Badly Hurt If The Bout Continued.Perfect Stoppage.Adios

[thepocketrocket]

Some nonsense spouted here. He was moving, rolling and throwing back.

The people who say that he was DEFO going to be knocked out must think they are the delphic oracle. Groves was hurt, but hurt fighters come back all the time in world title fights. Or is Froch such a superstar there is NO WAY anyone could withstand the barrage? Or is Groves so soft he will crumble every time?

That isn't to say that Groves wouldn't have been stopped. Anyone who says Groves was DEFO going to stay up is talking rubbish also, as how would they know?

What can't be argued is that the stoppage was early. Very early in fact. If any ref goes into a match with a pre conceived idea that someone is soft, then they will be quick to jump in, because they feel the knockout they have expected to see since the fight was made is only seconds away and they need to save people.

This is why the likes of Enzo got shafted with IJL and Groves was by Foster

[danconnollyeire]

Groves is getting bummed bigstyle at Wembley.

With a bird like Froch's, it's a bit weird he's gonna bum Groves. Maybe that's why his brother keeps posting pics of dicks on Twitter... maybe it's a sexual attraction thing

[danconnollyeire]

The thing people never seem to mention is, long term, Froch will be more damaged from this. The brain shakes quite rapidly when you take a shot. Froch stands there for 9 rounds getting absolutely peppered then gets the stoppage. Groves takes a beat of a beating, Froch's brain takes a pounding. I wouldn't be suprised if Froch turns out like Ali in the long-run. Being such a warrior isn't always a good thing. Ask Bhop... defensive counts for so much more

[DMA1987]

Some nonsense spouted here. He was moving, rolling and throwing back.

The people who say that he was DEFO going to be knocked out must think they are the delphic oracle. Groves was hurt, but hurt fighters come back all the time in world title fights. Or is Froch such a superstar there is NO WAY anyone could withstand the barrage? Or is Groves so soft he will crumble every time?

That isn't to say that Groves wouldn't have been stopped. Anyone who says Groves was DEFO going to stay up is talking rubbish also, as how would they know?

What can't be argued is that the stoppage was early. Very early in fact. If any ref goes into a match with a pre conceived idea that someone is soft, then they will be quick to jump in, because they feel the knockout they have expected to see since the fight was made is only seconds away and they need to save people.

This is why the likes of Enzo got shafted with IJL and Groves was by Foster

He was knackered, on the ropes and getting caught. Even the SUPER biased commentators were saying his legs had gone.

[thepocketrocket]

Some nonsense spouted here. He was moving, rolling and throwing back.

The people who say that he was DEFO going to be knocked out must think they are the delphic oracle. Groves was hurt, but hurt fighters come back all the time in world title fights. Or is Froch such a superstar there is NO WAY anyone could withstand the barrage? Or is Groves so soft he will crumble every time?

That isn't to say that Groves wouldn't have been stopped. Anyone who says Groves was DEFO going to stay up is talking rubbish also, as how would they know?

What can't be argued is that the stoppage was early. Very early in fact. If any ref goes into a match with a pre conceived idea that someone is soft, then they will be quick to jump in, because they feel the knockout they have expected to see since the fight was made is only seconds away and they need to save people.

This is why the likes of Enzo got shafted with IJL and Groves was by Foster

He was knackered, on the ropes and getting caught. Even the SUPER biased commentators were saying his legs had gone.

He was not getting caught clean, and his head was not getting rolled back. No doubt he was uncomfortable, but he was hardly on deaths door.

[Parson Cross]

We get the message charliebox - now ease off with those capitals !

[Horse]

Some Posters On Here Should Get In Touch With The British Boxing Of Control.Since They Think They Think Are In The Know About Refereeing.Groves Was Sagging The Left Hook Hurt Him.He Should Have Stuck To The Game Plan From Opening Bell To End Of Round 6.Masterclass.Then Inexperience, Bravado Thinking He Could Finish Carl At His Own Game.And The Way Howard Foster Has Been Treated Is A Disgrace.A Honest Decision Is A Good Decision.He Would Have Got Badly Hurt If The Bout Continued.Perfect Stoppage.Adios

What's with all of the capital letters?

The stoppage was one of the worst world level stoppages of all time. A thousand Foster apologists could not convince me that it was a good stoppage.