Could the ref have counted

[ttornado]

Groves leg was nudged from under himself.
So he was aided, therefore fight is over.

Groves didn't ask him to nudge his leg.

doesn't matter the fighter can't be aided.
Anyway Groves was done, the ref did the right thing ending it.
It's not up to the fighter to decide when they're done.

[taffytoon]

CF was knocked on his arse; GG was KTFO Huge difference; and you know you're on a loser when the only idiot that agrees with you is DONKEY

Absolutely NO argument to be had regarding the stoppage


Full stop

[spudder56]

Groves was gone, simple. He could not get his leg out of the position it was so no way was he going to get up before 10. Also we are not in the killing game, the fighter was done, get the doc in and get him help. No one knows when the next Michael Watson tragedy will happen so why aid a possible death by counting. For me the ref was spot on, none of us was over the top of Groves face looking at him so how on earth can anyone here say a ten count should have happened.

Silly question this thread was and goes to show how some people do not fully understand boxing and serious injury and possible death.

Spot on mimmy

[Horse]

CF was knocked on his arse; GG was KTFO Huge difference; and you know you're on a loser when the only idiot that agrees with you is DONKEY

Grow up.

[SNG]

When he waved it off and groves started to get up I thought he'd fucked up, but Groves struggled getting up using the ref as a ladder. And was very wobbly while assisted to the corner, nothing wrong with the stoppage at all.

[whiskey]

This video shows the ref looking into his eyes which were at the back of his head, then waving it off.

Groves goes down like a puppet that had it's strings cut with scissors. He's literally asleep on the way down.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1xxhq ... ko-2_sport

[davie]

When he waved it off and groves started to get up I thought he'd fucked up, but Groves struggled getting up using the ref as a ladder. And was very wobbly while assisted to the corner, nothing wrong with the stoppage at all.

This is basically all i'm getting at

I'm not even critisising the stoppage, as people would have noticed if they bothered to read the OP,

i just think the ref should sometimes give the fighter time to see what he's going to do and give himself that extra few seconds to assess the damage.
When that ref waved it off and seconds later groves is scrambling to get up. The ref will have thought "please tell me i've not f***ed this up"

Not just on this occasion, but in many stoppages, take that extra few seconds to make sure you've made the right call. That ref made an instant decision and could have been made to look stupid if george had perhaps not been as badly hurt as he first thought and recovered well.

But of course, thinking this makes me an idiot, absolutely off my nut, dragging down the standards on the board and clearly demonstrates i'm eagerly awaiting the next Michael Watson moment

[n1ebf]

When he waved it off and groves started to get up I thought he'd fucked up, but Groves struggled getting up using the ref as a ladder. And was very wobbly while assisted to the corner, nothing wrong with the stoppage at all.

This is basically all i'm getting at

I'm not even critisising the stoppage, as people would have noticed if they bothered to read the OP,

i just think the ref should sometimes give the fighter time to see what he's going to do and give himself that extra few seconds to assess the damage.
When that ref waved it off and seconds later groves is scrambling to get up. The ref will have thought "please tell me i've not f***ed this up"

Not just on this occasion, but in many stoppages, take that extra few seconds to make sure you've made the right call. That ref made an instant decision and could have been made to look stupid if george had perhaps not been as badly hurt as he first thought and recovered well.

But of course, thinking this makes me an idiot, absolutely off my nut, dragging down the standards on the board and clearly demonstrates i'm eagerly awaiting the next Michael Watson moment

I think we have to give the ref the benefit of the doubt, he's closer to it than anyone. Sometimes a fighter goes down and tries to get up too quickly when he should take a few seconds to try and compose himself. There is always the risk that a ref might interpret any lack of immediate movement as a sign the fight is finished. But even if, like on Saturday, there is little movement and then all of a sudden someone starts getting up the referee is absolutely entitled to stop a fight if he sees fit when someone takes a flush punch like that. Nobody else's opinion matters frankly. I was hoping it was a flash knockdown as I really wanted Grovesy to do it, but it was obvious as soon as he hit the deck that the fight was over.
* I know you ain't advocating fighters getting hurt too btw

[taffytoon]

Direct from GG Twitter -

George Groves @StGeorgeGroves · May 31
Haven't watched it back properly yet but I think... I got knocked the fornicate out!


https://twitter.com/StGeorgeGroves


Direct from the Horses Mouth and not a DONKEY

[Finn]

No he was out cold until a couple of seconds after the ref got to him. When he came round he looked like someone who had just realised they had over slept for work.

[crusader]

The ref could've counted and Groves would've likely beaten the count, but he was all over the place and in no condition to continue. Given how bad Groves looked when he went down, with his arms in the air, his legs underneath him, and no signs of movement, I can't blame the ref for thinking he shouldn't continue even if he was trying to get up, and if I were the ref I would've have waved it off immediately.

People dislike Froch so much that they're looking for every possible angle to discredit the victory... whether it be a fluke shot, the ref could of counted, etc, etc.

I don't sense any dislike from the OP towards Froch. Why do you like to play the 'everyone hates Froch' card so much lately?

[dazzler]

This video shows the ref looking into his eyes which were at the back of his head, then waving it off.

Groves goes down like a puppet that had it's strings cut with scissors. He's literally asleep on the way down.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1xxhq ... ko-2_sport

The ref doesn't seem to touch his leg BTW.

I originally thought it was an early stoppage but this slow motion video seems to show the ref called it off before Groves started to get up when he looked abosolutely out of it.

All the same, people are obsessed about early stoppages for good reason.

[ILikeBeer]

I'm not trying to look for a conspiracy and can't really knock the stoppage, Groves was in a bad place.
But could the ref have given a count?

He could. But what's the difference? No way was the referee going to let it continue after that. Even if Groves had got up, it would've been waved off immediately.

Unlike the first fight, this was a decent stoppage.

[garethhop]

Going back to the original post.

Should the ref have stood over an unconscious fighter whose leg was trapped below him, and administered a ten count?

No.

End of thread.

[Wrists]

Am I dreaming are we debating the stoppage?

Give me strength FFS!!

Groves was levelled simple as that it was a spot on call by a ref who was very very good

Beggars belief there's a thread about this to be honest

[Controversial]

As Groves put on his own twitter account, he got knocked out. He has accepted that and hasn't made any argument for having a count.

IMO the ref got it spot on, getting up is just instinctive to boxers, if his mind was clear he would've stayed on his knee and looked at the ref before rising at 8 however his brain was scrambled.

[macaca]

Groves himself said it was a good stoppage when interviewed after the fight. You can't say any more than that.

This hold the most weight, he personally said that has no problems with it and said the referee was right

[Ricky_]

Am I dreaming are we debating the stoppage?

Give me strength FFS!!

Groves was levelled simple as that it was a spot on call by a ref who was very very good

Beggars belief there's a thread about this to be honest

Well, i think it's perhaps down to 1 issue many people are overlooking...

George beat the count.

He deserves massive credit for that, unbelievable toughness, but it would have been wrong to allow the fight to continue even so, Groves was clearly out cold for a couple of seconds and when that happens the priority needs to be to get the doctor in the ring, not the outcome of a sporting bout.

[ILikeBeer]

Well, i think it's perhaps down to 1 issue many people are overlooking...

George beat the count.

So? That doesn't make it a bad stoppage.

[Controversial]

Beating the count is only part of the decision the ref needs to make regarding stopping a fight, many fighters are stopped without even being dropped, the ref just saves them from further punishment. That doesn't mean just because they were never counted out that they should be allowed to continue until they are knocked unconscious.

[sharpei_louis]

I'm a Groves fan, and all I know is that if it was my lad lay there on the deck in that much trouble, I wouldn't want someone stood over him counting, I'd want him being medically assessed as quickly as possible.
I think that's all that was in the ref's mind.

If the point that Groves was in cloud cuckoo land for a while after isn't in debate then whether he counted or not is purely a matter for whether it's worth delaying a proper look at him medically. Good on Groves for that tweet, showing a bit of class.

[Ricky_]

Well, i think it's perhaps down to 1 issue many people are overlooking...

George beat the count.

So? That doesn't make it a bad stoppage.

I don't think for a second it was a bad stoppage. I just wanted to give Groves credit that he went from being "get him a stretcher & an oxygen mask" to back on his feet within the space of the allocated 10 seconds. Who knows, with 20 seconds left of the round, maybe he could've carried on.

again, not that the right call wasn't made, just huge credit to the toughness and resolve of George Groves. The ref 100% made the right call, the first decision to make when a guy goes down very heavily is whether to count, or call in the doctor. 1 look at Groves buckled on the canvas and the only decision to make at that point was to get the medical professionals in the ring.

[Mimmy]

This video shows the ref looking into his eyes which were at the back of his head, then waving it off.

Groves goes down like a puppet that had it's strings cut with scissors. He's literally asleep on the way down.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1xxhq ... ko-2_sport

The video has been removed but would like to see what the replier was showing.

[Mimmy]

When he waved it off and groves started to get up I thought he'd fucked up, but Groves struggled getting up using the ref as a ladder. And was very wobbly while assisted to the corner, nothing wrong with the stoppage at all.

This is basically all i'm getting at

I'm not even critisising the stoppage, as people would have noticed if they bothered to read the OP,

i just think the ref should sometimes give the fighter time to see what he's going to do and give himself that extra few seconds to assess the damage.
When that ref waved it off and seconds later groves is scrambling to get up. The ref will have thought "please tell me i've not f***ed this up"

Not just on this occasion, but in many stoppages, take that extra few seconds to make sure you've made the right call. That ref made an instant decision and could have been made to look stupid if george had perhaps not been as badly hurt as he first thought and recovered well.

But of course, thinking this makes me an idiot, absolutely off my nut, dragging down the standards on the board and clearly demonstrates i'm eagerly awaiting the next Michael Watson moment

If you are implying that ive said you/we are waiting for another Michael Watson you are wrong and seeing something in my reply that is clearly not there.

What I said is that we don't know when the next tragedy will happen so why aid it.

[Mimmy]

Am I dreaming are we debating the stoppage?

Give me strength FFS!!

Groves was levelled simple as that it was a spot on call by a ref who was very very good

Beggars belief there's a thread about this to be honest

Maybe we should have a 20 count in England give the knocked out boxers at least time to recover and get up and carry on while stumbling all over the damn place, maybe should allow referees to help boxers too, maybe hold em up while they at least try to fight on.