Groves will be back, haha pull the other one.

[SNG]

His plan b was to jump all over groves if he needed to, thats a valid plan imo.

You could tell which fighter really believed they were winning the first fight by the tactics they adopted. Groves completely changed his tactics and held back in the early rounds im assuming partly avoid gassing. Where as froch just did what he did in the first fight with a lot more focus, better conditioning and a better defense.

Groves team picked completely the wrong tactics.

So plan B was to do plan A, just better?

[Finn]

His plan b was to jump all over groves if he needed to, thats a valid plan imo.

You could tell which fighter really believed they were winning the first fight by the tactics they adopted. Groves completely changed his tactics and held back in the early rounds im assuming partly avoid gassing. Where as froch just did what he did in the first fight with a lot more focus, better conditioning and a better defense.

Groves team picked completely the wrong tactics.

So plan B was to do plan A, just better?

Plan A was to time groves in the counters and to stay on him each time he caught him. The plan B was to jump on groves in the championship rounds when groves wouldnt have been as sharp if his plan A wasnt working.

[Ricky_]

Groves team picked completely the wrong tactics.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Groves was winning the first fight and there was little in the second fight, the fights were just a tale of two punches. Groves put Froch down in the first fight but the bell saved him, Froch put Groves down in the second and Groves was unable to continue.

Tactically I thought Groves had got it right second fight, just quietly picking up points saving energy so he didn't gass in the latter rounds.

absolutely. It's worth noting that the "tale of 2 punches" as you eloquently put it, is also the tale of 2 mistakes off the ropes.

[Finn]

Groves team picked completely the wrong tactics.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Groves was winning the first fight and there was little in the second fight, the fights were just a tale of two punches. Groves put Froch down in the first fight but the bell saved him, Froch put Groves down in the second and Groves was unable to continue.

Tactically I thought Groves had got it right second fight, just quietly picking up points saving energy so he didn't gass in the latter rounds.

Groves was winning the first fight for 6 or 7 rounds then folded, its a 12 round fight at the end of the day and you could clearly see the tide turning from round 5 even when froch was losing the rounds badly he was taking it out of groves and we all know froch can just keep going even when hurt and groves was starting to look increasingly ragged and clearly isnt as durable.

You could see what Froch was doing and Groves failed or was unable to adapt his tactics in the second fight, he should have been far more active looking to jump on froch land shots then dart back out leaving froch bewildered "amir khan style tactics", he didnt have the engine to do that with the intensity he needed to.

Groves was flattered by the fact he startled froch in the first fight before gassing and being battered and in the second fight he managed to put away some rounds but was further away from beating froch than he was in the 1st fight he was never going to beat froch like that.

The tale of two punches part could be said - Frochs punch wasnt a massive punch (not like people are making it out to) but it sparked groves clean out, Groves punch was an absolutely massive punch that put froch on his arse and wobbled him a bit. That about says it all.

If i was James Degale i would be crying from the roof tops to get a mega money rematch with groves because degale will have seen that groves isnt all that durable.

[n1ebf]

Groves team picked completely the wrong tactics.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Groves was winning the first fight and there was little in the second fight, the fights were just a tale of two punches. Groves put Froch down in the first fight but the bell saved him, Froch put Groves down in the second and Groves was unable to continue.

Tactically I thought Groves had got it right second fight, just quietly picking up points saving energy so he didn't gass in the latter rounds.

Groves was winning the first fight for 6 or 7 rounds then folded, its a 12 round fight at the end of the day and you could clearly see the tide turning from round 5 even when froch was losing the rounds badly he was taking it out of groves and we all know froch can just keep going even when hurt and groves was starting to look increasingly ragged and clearly isnt as durable.

You could see what Froch was doing and Groves failed or was unable to adapt his tactics in the second fight, he should have been far more active looking to jump on froch land shots then dart back out leaving froch bewildered "amir khan style tactics", he didnt have the engine to do that with the intensity he needed to.

Groves was flattered by the fact he startled froch in the first fight before gassing and being battered and in the second fight he managed to put away some rounds but was further away from beating froch than he was in the 1st fight he was never going to beat froch like that.

The tale of two punches part could be said - Frochs punch wasnt a massive punch (not like people are making it out to) but it sparked groves clean out, Groves punch was an absolutely massive punch that put froch on his arse and wobbled him a bit. That about says it all.

If i was James Degale i would be crying from the roof tops to get a mega money rematch with groves because degale will have seen that groves isnt all that durable.

I enjoyed that post until the last line Groves has already demonstrated that he can do 12 with Degale - who himself is capable of looking a bit wearisome after a few rounds. Groves's battleship just got torpedoed but let's not forget, before Saturday night his stock was huge.
I just like Groves and don't really wanna see him have to go back over old business with the risky Degale - yet again! How many times must the poor guy beat him? Groves needs to be carefully guided back into contention without the bucket-load of stress that would come with a huge fight with Degale. And it would be huge, let's be honest, because there's history.

[lefty]

The tale of the tape if you're brutally honest is that Froch can take a shot a lot better than Groves can.

[Finn]

I enjoyed that post until the last line Groves has already demonstrated that he can do 12 with Degale - who himself is capable of looking a bit wearisome after a few rounds. Groves's battleship just got torpedoed but let's not forget, before Saturday night his stock was huge.
I just like Groves and don't really wanna see him have to go back over old business with the risky Degale - yet again! How many times must the poor guy beat him? Groves needs to be carefully guided back into contention without the bucket-load of stress that would come with a huge fight with Degale. And it would be huge, let's be honest, because there's history.

He beat degale by a MD one point on 2 judges score cards in a fight many felt he lost. Degale has then gone onto his next 9 fights Groves has lost 2 of his 8 following fights. Its a fight that has to happen degale will be after a title but in two fights time this is the natural fight to happen. Groves has done 12 rounds by the seat of his pants once in his entire pro career that doesnt make him a 12 round fighter.

[Cyclops]

If i was James Degale i would be crying from the roof tops to get a mega money rematch with groves because degale will have seen that groves isnt all that durable.

He's always known that. In the Groves Degale fight Groves fought on the backfoot and didn't seem to looking to be landing anything with much power. He certainly didn't bother Degale with his shots and there was at least one occasion where Degale hurt George, or at least had him rattled.

This was why I was amazed that he appeared to be the more heavy handed fighter in their subsequent careers while Degale seemed to struggle to get guys out of there. It was also this performance that had me so confidently picking Froch the first time around. I was amazed George took it to Carl like that.

I've said for a while now I think Degale will get a world title first and that he's underrated. Saturday nights performance is the first step towards proving that and I hope to be vindicated. We'll see.

[Cyclops]

I enjoyed that post until the last line Groves has already demonstrated that he can do 12 with Degale - who himself is capable of looking a bit wearisome after a few rounds. Groves's battleship just got torpedoed but let's not forget, before Saturday night his stock was huge.
I just like Groves and don't really wanna see him have to go back over old business with the risky Degale - yet again! How many times must the poor guy beat him? Groves needs to be carefully guided back into contention without the bucket-load of stress that would come with a huge fight with Degale. And it would be huge, let's be honest, because there's history.

He beat degale by a MD one point on 2 judges score cards in a fight many felt he lost. Degale has then gone onto his next 9 fights Groves has lost 2 of his 8 following fights. Its a fight that has to happen degale will be after a title but in two fights time this is the natural fight to happen. Groves has done 12 rounds by the seat of his pants once in his entire pro career that doesnt make him a 12 round fighter.

Well, twice. To be fair. Glen Johnson too.

[jamesmcdonnell]

It will take a lot out of Groves for sure, the first fight he could write off as being down to the ref, but I think despite that he knew deep down that Carl had been dragging him into a fight gradually for the last few rounds, and that he was badly hurt when the ref jumped in.

Second time around there was no doubt that Carl weathered the best he had early, and then dismantled him with a great shot.

Groves will have to have doubts about his durability from here on in, he would have to be a robot not to.

Very few fighters are as tough as Froch, but there are bigger punchers out there, and better boxers. Groves to me seems to be in a bit of a quandary, does he become more of a boxer and hang back on looking for big counters, in favour of racking up points here, and protect his chin, or does he stick to his guns and risk getting pasted again by a world class fighter.

I think personally, he needs to pick his next couple of fights carefully. I've not seen Abraham for a while, but he's definitely tough, and can bang, there's definitely a risk Abraham takes the best Groves has for a while and then stiffs him.

Some careful rebuilding to be done.

[Dan Dares]

Groves has been stopped twice now, once he denies, the other extremely badly - the trend is there that Froch takes something out of everyone he fights. George has had a torrid 9 months with Froch both mentally and physically. It will have taken it's toil without a doubt. He was completely wiped out by the right hand on Saturday.

Kessler had to retire from the Super Six after having his face opened up like a tin of beans against Froch in Herning. After Froch rematch he retired yet again for a year.

He smacked Pascal out of the division. Taylor was never the same after the gruelling fight with Froch and ended up in hospital in his next fight.

Bute was ruined and gone from superstar to a vulnerable shell. Magee left on oxygen, moved out of division too.

15-0 Rybacki never fought ever again. GB squad member 11-0 Alan Page never fought again. Damon Hague destroyed in a round and never fought again.

Arthur Abraham was devastating against Dirrell, he was screwed by that prick ref after Dirrell pretended to be unconcious then left the Super Six afterwards claiming headaches from a glancing punch when he had dived onto the canvas.

His first proper defeat, was the when he was routed by Froch in Herning. Nobody had done that to Arthur, and he lost his mojo after that fight in a massive way. He went from Super Six favourite ahead of Ward to nowhere. Ward didn't beat Arthur like Carl did, not even close. He was never the same afterwards.

Groves is young but look at Jorge Linares or Francisco Bojado, both red hot prospects who have waned since a heavy defeat.

Michael Nunn after losing to James Toney, Pavlik after Hopkins.

The best example would be John Mugabi, the fighter whom ironically founded Sauerland promotions. He blazed through 25 opponents by KO until he was mandatory for Marvin Hagler - and he was knocked out. Then he was knocked out again straight after in half the time by half the fighter.

Pretending all is well and that there will be 0% difference in Groves is wishful thinking and a rarity not the norm.

He needs a long holiday, complete break from boxing and some soft fights at the end of the year and assess it from there in my opinion.

[TheLeprechaun]

It will take a lot out of Groves for sure, the first fight he could write off as being down to the ref, but I think despite that he knew deep down that Carl had been dragging him into a fight gradually for the last few rounds, and that he was badly hurt when the ref jumped in.

Second time around there was no doubt that Carl weathered the best he had early, and then dismantled him with a great shot.

Groves will have to have doubts about his durability from here on in, he would have to be a robot not to.

Very few fighters are as tough as Froch, but there are bigger punchers out there, and better boxers. Groves to me seems to be in a bit of a quandary, does he become more of a boxer and hang back on looking for big counters, in favour of racking up points here, and protect his chin, or does he stick to his guns and risk getting pasted again by a world class fighter.

I think personally, he needs to pick his next couple of fights carefully. I've not seen Abraham for a while, but he's definitely tough, and can bang, there's definitely a risk Abraham takes the best Groves has for a while and then stiffs him. Abraham vs Kessler will probably be made though.

Some careful rebuilding to be done.

Yes, Abraham would be a tough fight because Abraham generally comes on in the second half and does carry his power.

I think Steiglitz would be a good fight, but after one or two confidence rebuilders.

After Steiglitz, maybe Abraham would be a good test. Theoretically its a fight George should win, but then again, so were the Froch fights. I think that Abraham is more easily outboxed though. We saw what Froch did.

[SamWise72]

The first fight absolutely had an effect on Groves. He hit Froch with the biggest punch he will ever land, and couldn't stop him, and he knows in his heart of hearts he was being beaten up in the 9th. Coming back in, he was afraid to stand and counter or look for the KO, so he tried to rely on outboxing Froch, but he's clearly not as superior in that department as some thought. Froch, by comparison, had been knocked down hard before and won, and come from behind to win before; he didn't have to look in the dark mirror.

Whether that means the end of George Groves depends on what he took from it. If he takes away that Froch is an animal, then he may well be fine. If he takes away significant doubt about himself, he may not be the same fighter again. I don't think the bloke is anywhere near as mentally strong as people think, but we won't know until he has to go through the fire again.

[palooka]

Groves will be back and has the experience of 2 (losing) high profile big stage title fights. He is 26 years old a millionaire through his boxing and his pronouncements. He is a big hitter who is also fragile - that generally spells box office excitement and is a fan friendly combination. He could win or lose to anyone in the top 10 (bar Ward and Froch). No doubt he will be a successful high stage boxer who earns plenty and never is the best in the division.

[CheckHook]

..... does he become more of a boxer and hang back on looking for big counters, in favour of racking up points here, and protect his chin, or does he stick to his guns and risk getting pasted again by a world class fighter.

I think personally, he needs to pick his next couple of fights carefully. I've not seen Abraham for a while, but he's definitely tough, and can bang, there's definitely a risk Abraham takes the best Groves has for a while and then stiffs him.

For me, it is all about getting the tactics right for the opponent in front of him. For example, if he fights Abraham he can just sit back, conserve his energy pot shot from the outside and stay out of trouble. Abraham has the power to hurt Groves, but is much less likely to actually catch up to him than Froch was. That tight, high guard and conservative style make him too predictable and a little bit toothless at 168, despite still having the power. With someone like Froch, Groves should've been much more aggressive and actually tried to hurt him. Ward had the style to out box Froch, because he was so smart with dictating the pace and slowing it down, not letting Froch work. Hit and hold, walk him back to the centre of the ring and just frustrate him into making silly mistakes while making his speed and accuracy count. That's a style that Groves was never going to pull out of his locker for the rematch. I think Groves has a decent career if he wants it, but If I'm totally honest I thought he got his tactics badly wrong on the night and it will be his tactics that hold him back in the future. I'm not sure the move away from Booth was a good idea personally.

[TheLeprechaun]

Booth was wanting a ridiculous amount of money from George if I remember correctly and still gets 25% of his purse for his last fight. He was probably coming out of the fights with more than George was getting.