Eubank, Benn, Jones Jr, Toney circa 1993-1994

[Finn]

still seemed to dish out plenty of leather - I'm thinking especially of the Thompson fights. I can't really comment objectively as I never saw Eubank before Watson. He looked brilliant in the Benn I fight. I thought the way he started that fight was brilliant. He came out and looked to go after a man he admits scared him. I thought he'd fought Benn after Watson, but I would need to check.

He fought benn before and after the watson fight - he beat benn convincingly in the 1st fight by stoppage and drew the rematch. I think he only ko'd a handfull from about 25 opponents after watson but had ko'd the vast majority of his opponents before that. Obviously there was an increase in quality as his career went along but he used to really look for the ko he lost that brutal instinct.

Steve Collins as good as he was would never have beaten the Eubank of old im certain of that.

[n1ebf]

Eubank boxed Benn twice, winning one by knockout (1990) and drew the other (1993) he boxed Watson twice in 1991, a majority decision win and then the knockout in a fight he was clearly losing.

yes, thank you Dirt Sugar! I have read both their books and they are my two favourite fighters - (so I guess I oughtta have known it )......but I was just thinking in terms of the chronology of my life. I seemed to remember it the wrong way around. For sure, Eubank did not lack the instinct to finish it versus Benn, when the chance came he was clinical!

[n1ebf]

still seemed to dish out plenty of leather - I'm thinking especially of the Thompson fights. I can't really comment objectively as I never saw Eubank before Watson. He looked brilliant in the Benn I fight. I thought the way he started that fight was brilliant. He came out and looked to go after a man he admits scared him. I thought he'd fought Benn after Watson, but I would need to check.

He fought benn before and after the watson fight - he beat benn convincingly in the 1st fight by stoppage and drew the rematch. I think he only ko'd a handfull from about 25 opponents after watson but had ko'd the vast majority of his opponents before that. Obviously there was an increase in quality as his career went along but he used to really look for the ko he lost that brutal instinct.

Steve Collins as good as he was would never have beaten the Eubank of old im certain of that.

yeah I know the 2nd Benn fight was much later than the Watson fights. The confusion was over Benn I and the Watson fights.
I couldn't honestly say mate - as you say - one would expect a % of KOs to decrease....but Collins was a bit of a handful. I honestly couldn't say mate. I think Chris may have said as much himself in his book - but as with any book, hard to remember over time.

[dekker1972]

Jones is overrated.

[Grilling Machine]

The truth is Eubank and benn were hugely overated cos they were entertaining and sold tickets. They weren't even the best in Britain and would vary rarely frequent the top five IMO. Nunn, jones, toney, mccallum, graham, kalumbay, Watson and many others were all above them.

Eubank beat Watson. You might say he shouldn't have, but he did. I loved Herol, but he didn't quite reach the top against the guys he did fight. I'd discount Kalambay for the same reasons. Nunn was a massive talent, but - from the fights I've seen of his - you never knew who was gonna turn up.

That leaves McCallum, who I agree with. I think Mike was good enough to beat all four of these guys on his best night. He was possibly the greatest middleweight since Hagler, for me.

I think Roy Jones at his peak would have beaten every fighter who ever fought at the super-middleweight.

Langford took Jack Johnson 15 rounds. Jones could've easily outpointed him, but avoided him for the entire fight? What if Ray Robinson had had access to PEDs? I'd still confidently pick Robinson as he was. Or how about the young Patterson at LH? I think Jones-Foster would've been fun while it lasted.

[stevieb_8006]

The truth is Eubank and benn were hugely overated cos they were entertaining and sold tickets. They weren't even the best in Britain and would vary rarely frequent the top five IMO. Nunn, jones, toney, mccallum, graham, kalumbay, Watson and many others were all above them.

Eubank beat Watson. You might say he shouldn't have, but he did. I loved Herol, but he didn't quite reach the top against the guys he did fight. I'd discount Kalambay for the same reasons. Nunn was a massive talent, but - from the fights I've seen of his - you never knew who was gonna turn up.

That leaves McCallum, who I agree with. I think Mike was good enough to beat all four of these guys on his best night. He was possibly the greatest middleweight since Hagler, for me.

good analysis tbf. I think eubank could be a bit lazy at times. plus got a lot of gifts people overlook

[Ezzard]

Toney's all wrong for Benn. And James would beat Eubank in a dull fight. Benn would have a great chance to detonate Jones. Chris would probably lose a narrow snorefest to Roy.

Jones is by far the most overrated of the four.

[SamWise72]

Eubank beat Watson. You might say he shouldn't have, but he did. I loved Herol, but he didn't quite reach the top against the guys he did fight.

That leaves McCallum, who I agree with. I think Mike was good enough to beat all four of these guys on his best night. He was possibly the greatest middleweight since Hagler, for me.

Interesting. Herol would have beaten McCallum if not for a questionable point deduction, and for me, he really won that fight anyway. Julian Jackson showed that Herol could be stopped, but that bloke could knock down a car park. Benn and Eubank would have needed to find something similar to beat Herol, and both have it in them, but it would have the be the punch of their respective careers; 9 out of 10, Herol wins. Herol vs Toney would have been a chess match; Toney would have to be at his best, if he's a bit lazy, Herol wins. Jones I think had too much for Herol, but I'd love to see the fight, because he would pose Jones a puzzle he never was posed, and I'd love to see how it went.

[Bricks]

How would Benn and Eubank fared against Toney and Jones Jr had those fights managed to be made around about 1993 and 1994 when Toney and Jones were at large in the Super-middleweight division.

The consensus seems to be Jones was a phenom around this time and I always thought Toney was considered a step above both our guys but looking at his record around this time his record doesn't necessarily indicate he was particularly deserving of such praise.

Thoughts?

Are u trolling? Toney beat Mike McCallum,kayoed nunn.both guys Benn and Eubanks were afraid to fight.and he took out a top level lh champ in Prince Williams. The talent pool was so deep back than (only the 140-147 pool today cones remotely close and Benn and Eubanks were exciting b levellers below your Jones,toneys,McCallum,Norris,jacksons etc

[Syntax Error]

Eubank & Benn were half a step below Jones Jr & Toney in '93/'94.

Eubank & Benn were undoubtedly excellent fighters, but, especially in the case of Eubank, he greatly benefitted from the existence of the WBO & their championing of UK fighters back then.

Benn was a quality fighter, but like someone has alluded to earlier, he got the gift of all gifts against Malinga & I'm shocked there wasn't more of a hue & cry about that.

Jones Jr would have taken them all without too much fuss including Toney (which he did) & Toney himself would have beaten Benn & Eubank quite easily too.

[polecateddy]

Eubank & Benn were half a step below Jones Jr & Toney in '93/'94.

Eubank & Benn were undoubtedly excellent fighters, but, especially in the case of Eubank, he greatly benefitted from the existence of the WBO & their championing of UK fighters back then.

Benn was a quality fighter, but like someone has alluded to earlier, he got the gift of all gifts against Malinga & I'm shocked there wasn't more of a hue & cry about that.

Jones Jr would have taken them all with too much fuss & Toney would (& he did) have been beaten by Jones Jr.

Malinga is one of the keys to assessing how this would have gone. The South African was a very consistent performer and said himself he was completely outclassed by Jones.

[Bricks]

It's so sad people who weren't around at the time have fallen prey to sky's revisionist history that Collins-Jones was the Pac-money of its day, and that Eubanks and Benn were ever on that level. Financially toney wanted to comer over here and decimate Benn and Eubanks.but a McCallum had shown what would happen he beat Collins Graham in close ones on off nights and destroyed Watson.

I hand it to Benn tho he fought in a very very strong era and by 95 he was an A lister.the Jones superfights really should have happened than or a McCallum war but instead he quickly had a couple of wins over Marseille nd gimenez than lost to making a in a fight the scorecards if tallied correctly had him winning.

[TheGman]

Jones is overrated.

Haha this is the worst comment iv ever seen. You clearly know fornicate all about boxing

[TheGman]

The best fight here for the brits would of been eubank vs toney,benn could bang but had a chin like a bag of crisp. Roy jones would of schooled eubank and benn,toney would of chinned benn by round 8. Eubank might of beat toney on points only because toney was tight at the weight.

[polecateddy]

The best fight here for the brits would of been eubank vs toney,benn could bang but had a chin like a bag of crisp. Roy jones would of schooled eubank and benn,toney would of chinned benn by round 8. Eubank might of beat toney on points only because toney was tight at the weight.

That's horse poo. We're you even watching boxing in that era? Certainly if you look at Toney v Prince Charles Williams, it actually set a punch record that's still to be beaten. Toney would have schooled Eubank, who didn't have a high work-rate or skills to defeat an all-time great. However it was solid and probably would have gone the distance.

[TheGman]

The best fight here for the brits would of been eubank vs toney,benn could bang but had a chin like a bag of crisp. Roy jones would of schooled eubank and benn,toney would of chinned benn by round 8. Eubank might of beat toney on points only because toney was tight at the weight.

That's horse poo. We're you even watching boxing in that era? Certainly if you look at Toney v Prince Charles Williams, it actually set a punch record that's still to be beaten. Toney would have schooled Eubank, who didn't have a high work-rate or skills to defeat an all-time great. However it was solid and probably would have gone the distance.

Yes i was watching boxing in that era and yes i watched toney vs charles williams i also watched toney vs nunn jones vs toney were toney done nothing all fight. So u think benn would of done better with toney and jones then right? My opinion is eubank would of done better with toney rather than jones and he would of give a more match winning performance rather than benn vs either but then again u know best so can u give my opinion to this forum please cause u know my opinion better than me,thanks . Anyone want to know my opinion about any boxing ask polecateddy cause he knows my opinions on all.

[danconnollyeire]

Jones is overrated.

Haha this is the worst comment iv ever seen. You clearly know eff all about boxing

It's hilarious. Everyone is overrated in boxing these days. You can't achieve anything without being overrated. Ali, Robinson, Leonard all overrated in too many people's eyes. I think he should just accept Jones Jr was an unreal fight, unorthodox, absolute class and move on

[jessi]

Roy jones was the best by far

A peak Roy jones jnr was probably the best boxer I've ever witnessed !

[Bricks]

Toney's big weakness was work rate. Eubank was hardly a work horse. There would be lots of gaps, but Toney would do by far the better work when they did go at it.

Watch toney at his mw peak (ebay v Nunn,barkley,McCallum) rather than the toney of later years. He had an incredible world are.watch the Barkley opening round

[Boxerbeetle]

Jones is overrated.

Haha this is the worst comment iv ever seen. You clearly know eff all about boxing

Yep, there's a huge amount of revisionism going on in this thread...I actually don't remember anyone during the period in question arguing that Benn & Eubank were in the same class as Jones Jr & Toney, it was very clear that the Americans were on another level. Benn & Eubank have since said the same.

[palooka]

Jones is overrated.

Haha this is the worst comment iv ever seen. You clearly know eff all about boxing

Yep, there's a huge amount of revisionism going on in this thread...I actually don't remember anyone during the period in question arguing that Benn & Eubank were in the same class as Jones Jr & Toney, it was very clear that the Americans were on another level. Benn & Eubank have since said the same.

Jones and Toney were a league and a half above; I remember watching them both box and they made very good fighters look atrocious. Jones has been shot to pieces for 10 years at least but in his day he was unbelievable, the same with Toney - they were gifted fighters and we were lucky to have seen them box in their primes.

[polecateddy]

Jones is overrated.

Haha this is the worst comment iv ever seen. You clearly know eff all about boxing

Yep, there's a huge amount of revisionism going on in this thread...I actually don't remember anyone during the period in question arguing that Benn & Eubank were in the same class as Jones Jr & Toney, it was very clear that the Americans were on another level. Benn & Eubank have since said the same.

I remember a satellite interview with Benn and Eubank in the UK, and Toney trash talking from the US, about how he wanted to beat them up. I think it was around the time Mickey Rourke was sharing his gym, (and getting a lot of beatings). I think for a brief moment it looked some sort of big fight might come off, but I suspect promotors Warren and Hearn were too smart to let it happen. And probably in all honesty neither Benn or Eubank were overly keen to go in with such a master boxer as Toney.

[Boxerbeetle]

I remember a satellite interview with Benn and Eubank in the UK, and Toney trash talking from the US, about how he wanted to beat them up. I think it was around the time Mickey Rourke was sharing his gym, (and getting a lot of beatings). I think for a brief moment it looked some sort of big fight might come off, but I suspect promotors Warren and Hearn were too smart to let it happen. And probably in all honesty neither Benn or Eubank were overly keen to go in with such a master boxer as Toney.

I remember that interview. Wasn't it on the Jonathan Ross show or something? I definitely remember Eubank not looking too keen at the prospect of facing Toney!

[jameswilson]

Yep, there's a huge amount of revisionism going on in this thread...I actually don't remember anyone during the period in question arguing that Benn & Eubank were in the same class as Jones Jr & Toney, it was very clear that the Americans were on another level. Benn & Eubank have since said the same.

I remember a satellite interview with Benn and Eubank in the UK, and Toney trash talking from the US, about how he wanted to beat them up. I think it was around the time Mickey Rourke was sharing his gym, (and getting a lot of beatings). I think for a brief moment it looked some sort of big fight might come off, but I suspect promotors Warren and Hearn were too smart to let it happen. And probably in all honesty neither Benn or Eubank were overly keen to go in with such a master boxer as Toney.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW3zWZ12ZZY

As I remember there was an agreement that Don King would end the second Benn v Eubank fight with the winner and the loser, but when it ended a draw Barry Hearn played hard ball on the fact that there wasn't a winner or a loser in the fight so he remained as Chris Eubank's promoter. Whether what I'v heard is Chinese whispers or not I don't know.