Cotto Martinez - who wins?

[Finn]

For me, that has dimished the appeal of Froch vs Chavez.

Martinez has looked there for the taking for a while, only time he's impressed recently was for 11 rounds against Chavez. Now, was it Chavez who made Martinez look good.

I think it was the murray fight that finished Martinez off he wasnt looking very good and then had a long time off with an injury / injuries and also he lost that fight regardless of the scoring, it was a robbery, knockdowns werent counted he was out worked out boxed and even over powered.

I personally have thought ever since the barker fight that Martinez was being over rated by some estimates, he had some very goods wins against williams, pavlik and cintron however none of those fighters have ever been extra ordinary. World class operators, world champions but not dominant forces. What is Martinez's defining win?

Before the barker fight i was on the martinez band wagon but after watching him get outboxed for long portions of the fight by someone who had only fought at European level doubts set in my mind. However as people have stated its easy to be wise after the fact.

How shot he was after the williams fight we'll never be sure but i suspect he was on the slide in the Chavez fight rather than shot, and then what was left of him was taken in the ring against Murray.

[straali]

That wasn't a contest, it was akin to bear-baiting. There is probably a good reason why fighters aren't supposed to enter a ring wearing knee braces....it suggests their knees aren't capable of supporting them adequately. The local boxing commission law was brushed away so that the "show could go on" and it resulted in a hideous spectacle. Martinez was moving like a geriatric in that ring. Although Cotto moved well and looked decent I reckon a lot of far inferior fighters to him would also have looked good against the impaired version of Sergio.

[youngrell]

Happy to put my hands up and say I was completely wrong on this one. Well done Cotto

[stujones]

For me, that has dimished the appeal of Froch vs Chavez.

Martinez has looked there for the taking for a while, only time he's impressed recently was for 11 rounds against Chavez. Now, was it Chavez who made Martinez look good.

I think it was the murray fight that finished Martinez off he wasnt looking very good and then had a long time off with an injury / injuries and also he lost that fight regardless of the scoring, it was a robbery, knockdowns werent counted he was out worked out boxed and even over powered.

I personally have thought ever since the barker fight that Martinez was being over rated by some estimates, he had some very goods wins against williams, pavlik and cintron however none of those fighters have ever been extra ordinary. World class operators, world champions but not dominant forces. What is Martinez's defining win?

Before the barker fight i was on the martinez band wagon but after watching him get outboxed for long portions of the fight by someone who had only fought at European level doubts set in my mind. However as people have stated its easy to be wise after the fact.

How shot he was after the williams fight we'll never be sure but i suspect he was on the slide in the Chavez fight rather than shot, and then what was left of him was taken in the ring against Murray.

You could be right. I also was very much on the Martinez bandwagon when he going through that purple patch. Your right on his opponents. What I liked about Martinez though was the manner he destroyed them. Yes, they were not in the Floyd Mayweather bracket, but they were also a lot better than the likes of Delvin Rodriquez and Martinez outclassed then in similar ways to Cotto outclassing Rodriquez.

Plus for me he has the perfect build for a Middleweight, just very athletic.

However, since Barker he's looked average in all his fights except 11 rounds vs Chavez. Did we over rate him? Was he slowing down? I don't know - but look at GGG.... most have been preaching he is the bee knees after the Macklin fight. Was it any more dominant than Martinez vs Pavlik or Martinez vs Williams 2, is Macklin any better than these? I think Martinez justified his praise (I really don't think you should watch Mayweather vs Gatti and say - hang on, Gatti might be world class but he is no ATG so lets not praise it too much)... the fact is that no-one has done what he has did to Paul Williams. Pavlik has been in with good fighters and only 1 previously was as dominant (and he is a freak). What I don't think was that the Barker and Macklin performances were poor due to a lack of Motivation and Chavez once again showed the Martinez who beat Pavlik and Williams. What I do think is Chavez got outboxed comprehensively against the same Martinez who struggled against Barker, Macklin and Murray... what does that suggest about Chavez.

Don't forget, Chavez is someone who many people thought lost vs Vera (first time) and was losing on points, in Mexico, against Andy Lee at the time of the stoppage.

[Finn]

For me, that has dimished the appeal of Froch vs Chavez.

Martinez has looked there for the taking for a while, only time he's impressed recently was for 11 rounds against Chavez. Now, was it Chavez who made Martinez look good.

I think it was the murray fight that finished Martinez off he wasnt looking very good and then had a long time off with an injury / injuries and also he lost that fight regardless of the scoring, it was a robbery, knockdowns werent counted he was out worked out boxed and even over powered.

I personally have thought ever since the barker fight that Martinez was being over rated by some estimates, he had some very goods wins against williams, pavlik and cintron however none of those fighters have ever been extra ordinary. World class operators, world champions but not dominant forces. What is Martinez's defining win?

Before the barker fight i was on the martinez band wagon but after watching him get outboxed for long portions of the fight by someone who had only fought at European level doubts set in my mind. However as people have stated its easy to be wise after the fact.

How shot he was after the williams fight we'll never be sure but i suspect he was on the slide in the Chavez fight rather than shot, and then what was left of him was taken in the ring against Murray.

You could be right. I also was very much on the Martinez bandwagon when he going through that purple patch. Your right on his opponents. What I liked about Martinez though was the manner he destroyed them. Yes, they were not in the Floyd Mayweather bracket, but they were also a lot better than the likes of Delvin Rodriquez and Martinez outclassed then in similar ways to Cotto outclassing Rodriquez.

Plus for me he has the perfect build for a Middleweight, just very athletic.

However, since Barker he's looked average in all his fights except 11 rounds vs Chavez. Did we over rate him? Was he slowing down? I don't know - but look at GGG.... most have been preaching he is the bee knees after the Macklin fight. Was it any more dominant than Martinez vs Pavlik or Martinez vs Williams 2, is Macklin any better than these? I think Martinez justified his praise (I really don't think you should watch Mayweather vs Gatti and say - hang on, Gatti might be world class but he is no ATG so lets not praise it too much)... the fact is that no-one has done what he has did to Paul Williams. Pavlik has been in with good fighters and only 1 previously was as dominant (and he is a freak). What I don't think was that the Barker and Macklin performances were poor due to a lack of Motivation and Chavez once again showed the Martinez who beat Pavlik and Williams. What I do think is Chavez got outboxed comprehensively against the same Martinez who struggled against Barker, Macklin and Murray... what does that suggest about Chavez.

Don't forget, Chavez is someone who many people thought lost vs Vera (first time) and was losing on points, in Mexico, against Andy Lee at the time of the stoppage.

I think you could well be right.