Ratings - please read before commenting - Archived

mogwaiPR · Post by **mogwaiPR** » 08 Jun 2014, 01:22

It is a shame to put Sergio Maravilla #9 pound for pound in front of GGG.... At least have the decency to correct your scoring algorithm. Miguel Cotto needs to be up there.

JCS · Post by **JCS** » 12 Jun 2014, 10:18

mogwaiPR wrote:It is a shame to put Sergio Maravilla #9 pound for pound in front of GGG.... At least have the decency to correct your scoring algorithm. Miguel Cotto needs to be up there.

SportsRatings · Post by **SportsRatings** » 12 Jun 2014, 22:24

keithmoonhangover wrote:Is there a way of finding out what the top ten heavyweights looked like the day after Buster Douglas beat Mike Tyson?

I make ratings too (HW only) and they are somewhat similar to BoxRec's. Here is my top ten through February, 1990:

Code: Select all

num  Fighter             record    rating
  1. BUSTER DOUGLAS    (12- 3- 0)   62.21 KO  10 #1 MIKE TYSON       
  2. MIKE TYSON        (22- 1- 0)   59.78 L KO  10 #11 BUSTER DOUGLAS   
  3. MICHAEL SPINKS    ( 9- 1- 0)   44.41 last win -32 months. 
  4. EVANDER HOLYFIELD ( 9- 0- 0)   34.87 
  5. TIM WITHERSPOON   (17- 3- 0)   27.42 
  6. FRANCESCO DAMIANI (14- 0- 0)   25.80 
  7. PIERRE COETZER    (19- 2- 0)   23.16 
  8. HORACE NOTICE     ( 8- 0- 0)   21.79 last win -23 months. 
  9. GARY MASON        (14- 0- 0)   20.82 
 10. RAZOR RUDDOCK     ( 9- 1- 0)   19.75 
 11. GEORGE FOREMAN    (35- 2- 0)   16.75 
 12. MICHAEL DOKES     (25- 2- 2)   16.53

In BoxRec most of the same fighters would probably be up there. Spinks and Notice would be removed for inactivity so I included the top 12.

JCS · Post by **JCS** » 13 Jun 2014, 10:15

SportsRatings wrote:
keithmoonhangover wrote:Is there a way of finding out what the top ten heavyweights looked like the day after Buster Douglas beat Mike Tyson?
I make ratings too (HW only) and they are somewhat similar to BoxRec's. Here is my top ten through February, 1990:
Code: Select all
num  Fighter             record    rating
  1. BUSTER DOUGLAS    (12- 3- 0)   62.21 KO  10 #1 MIKE TYSON       
  2. MIKE TYSON        (22- 1- 0)   59.78 L KO  10 #11 BUSTER DOUGLAS   
  3. MICHAEL SPINKS    ( 9- 1- 0)   44.41 last win -32 months. 
  4. EVANDER HOLYFIELD ( 9- 0- 0)   34.87 
  5. TIM WITHERSPOON   (17- 3- 0)   27.42 
  6. FRANCESCO DAMIANI (14- 0- 0)   25.80 
  7. PIERRE COETZER    (19- 2- 0)   23.16 
  8. HORACE NOTICE     ( 8- 0- 0)   21.79 last win -23 months. 
  9. GARY MASON        (14- 0- 0)   20.82 
 10. RAZOR RUDDOCK     ( 9- 1- 0)   19.75 
 11. GEORGE FOREMAN    (35- 2- 0)   16.75 
 12. MICHAEL DOKES     (25- 2- 2)   16.53 
In BoxRec most of the same fighters would probably be up there. Spinks and Notice would be removed for inactivity so I included the top 12.

How long did it take you to parse the BoxRec database?

SportsRatings · Post by **SportsRatings** » 19 Jun 2014, 21:34

JCS wrote:
SportsRatings wrote:
keithmoonhangover wrote:Is there a way of finding out what the top ten heavyweights looked like the day after Buster Douglas beat Mike Tyson?
I make ratings too (HW only) and they are somewhat similar to BoxRec's. Here is my top ten through February, 1990:
Code: Select all
num  Fighter             record    rating
  1. BUSTER DOUGLAS    (12- 3- 0)   62.21 KO  10 #1 MIKE TYSON       
  2. MIKE TYSON        (22- 1- 0)   59.78 L KO  10 #11 BUSTER DOUGLAS   
  3. MICHAEL SPINKS    ( 9- 1- 0)   44.41 last win -32 months. 
  4. EVANDER HOLYFIELD ( 9- 0- 0)   34.87 
  5. TIM WITHERSPOON   (17- 3- 0)   27.42 
  6. FRANCESCO DAMIANI (14- 0- 0)   25.80 
  7. PIERRE COETZER    (19- 2- 0)   23.16 
  8. HORACE NOTICE     ( 8- 0- 0)   21.79 last win -23 months. 
  9. GARY MASON        (14- 0- 0)   20.82 
 10. RAZOR RUDDOCK     ( 9- 1- 0)   19.75 
 11. GEORGE FOREMAN    (35- 2- 0)   16.75 
 12. MICHAEL DOKES     (25- 2- 2)   16.53 
In BoxRec most of the same fighters would probably be up there. Spinks and Notice would be removed for inactivity so I included the top 12.
How long did it take you to parse the BoxRec database?

lol, my database is not nearly as comprehensive as BoxRec's obviously. Since I track HWs only that eliminates the need for 90+% of the size, and I only list fights that are somewhat significant. Hence the records above, which don't match the fighters' actual records at the time, just their significant fights as defined by my system. I have, however, used BoxRec since around 2005 to keep my fight list up to date. Any "parsing" I do is done the old fashioned way -- look at the fighter's page, see if any fights have happened since the last time i checked :)

JCS · Post by **JCS** » 21 Aug 2014, 18:30

Martin,

Would it possible to run a query... fighters with most wins who have

- No losses
- No draws
- No wins by split or majority decision.

computerrank · Post by **computerrank** » 25 Aug 2014, 08:22

JCS wrote:Martin,

Would it possible to run a query... fighters with most wins who have

- No losses
- No draws
- No wins by split or majority decision.

Code: Select all

+--------+------------------+---------------+------+-------------+---------------------+
| bid    | first_name       | last_name     | wins | nationality | division            |
+--------+------------------+---------------+------+-------------+---------------------+
|   8222 | Samson           | Dutch Boy Gym |   43 | TH          | Super Flyweight     |
| 536325 | William Fernando | Souza Bezerra |   38 | BR          | Cruiserweight       |
| 383177 | Wanheng          | Menayothin    |   35 | TH          | Minimumweight       |
| 364679 | Mikey            | Garcia        |   34 | US          | Super Featherweight |
| 273110 | Pawel            | Kolodziej     |   33 | PL          | Cruiserweight       |
| 468841 | Deontay          | Wilder        |   32 | US          | Heavyweight         |
|  46138 | Alexander        | Bakhtin       |   31 | RU          | Bantamweight        |
| 316441 | Peter            | Quillin       |   31 | US          | Middleweight        |
| 257554 | Nenad            | Borovcanin    |   30 | RS          | Cruiserweight       |
| 356831 | Gennady          | Golovkin      |   30 | KZ          | Middleweight        |
+--------+------------------+---------------+------+-------------+---------------------+

JCS · Post by **JCS** » 25 Aug 2014, 17:52

computerrank wrote:

JCS wrote:Martin,

Would it possible to run a query... fighters with most wins who have

- No losses
- No draws
- No wins by split or majority decision.

Code: Select all

+--------+------------------+---------------+------+-------------+---------------------+
| bid    | first_name       | last_name     | wins | nationality | division            |
+--------+------------------+---------------+------+-------------+---------------------+
|   8222 | Samson           | Dutch Boy Gym |   43 | TH          | Super Flyweight     |
| 536325 | William Fernando | Souza Bezerra |   38 | BR          | Cruiserweight       |
| 383177 | Wanheng          | Menayothin    |   35 | TH          | Minimumweight       |
| 364679 | Mikey            | Garcia        |   34 | US          | Super Featherweight |
| 273110 | Pawel            | Kolodziej     |   33 | PL          | Cruiserweight       |
| 468841 | Deontay          | Wilder        |   32 | US          | Heavyweight         |
|  46138 | Alexander        | Bakhtin       |   31 | RU          | Bantamweight        |
| 316441 | Peter            | Quillin       |   31 | US          | Middleweight        |
| 257554 | Nenad            | Borovcanin    |   30 | RS          | Cruiserweight       |
| 356831 | Gennady          | Golovkin      |   30 | KZ          | Middleweight        |
+--------+------------------+---------------+------+-------------+---------------------+

Thanks! Further confirms the legend of Samson! Though, I suppose we don't know the details of the "PTS" outcomes..

jujigatame · Post by **jujigatame** » 27 Aug 2014, 13:50

Something seems wrong with Sprott's rating and maybe the ratings of people who've done single-night tournaments in general. Look at his before/after ratings for his last 3 fights, which all happened on 1 night:

Martin Rogan (quarterfinal) 84 -> 102
Anthony Nansen (semifinal) 84 -> 84
Kali Meehan (final) 139 -> 84

It looks like these have been calculated out of order or something. It's doubly mysterious when the ratings list his current point total at 102 as well.

JCS · Post by **JCS** » 27 Aug 2014, 14:04

jujigatame wrote:Something seems wrong with Sprott's rating and maybe the ratings of people who've done single-night tournaments in general. Look at his before/after ratings for his last 3 fights, which all happened on 1 night:

Martin Rogan (quarterfinal) 84 -> 102
Anthony Nansen (semifinal) 84 -> 84
Kali Meehan (final) 139 -> 84

It looks like these have been calculated out of order or something. It's doubly mysterious when the ratings list his current point total at 102 as well.

I've brought this up several times before... It's almost like there's no "Show order" column in the database being used as a secondary sort.

cold187 · Post by **cold187** » 11 Sep 2014, 10:26

how did marco huck lose points despite a clear UD

ImranSarwar · Post by **ImranSarwar** » 14 Oct 2014, 16:25

Barrera wrote:Damn, reading from that link has given me a much better understanding of how the database thing works, and just how massive and complex the whole thing is. Maybe there wasn't any crazy people sitting behind a computer on the other side of the world from me purposely placing Carlos Maussa 6th in the world afterall, just the huge upset against a top 5 guy rocketed him up the rankings.

Also, I look forward to a time when the older boxers records are a lot better documented, as I must admit there has been times when I've been looking at peoples records from over 50-75 years ago and on noticing that most of their fights are against guys with less than 20 pro fights I've been like "What the hell!?!", but after reading the part of that link about Mike Tyson and Young Stribling, that makes it alot clearer why it is currently like that.

Keep up the good work, it's very much appreciated.

It', is certainly true statement calling BoxRec "VAST". But...... the FORMULA I have read it to a degree. I think I would need a TUTOR to take it past the PLAIN ENGLISH on William (Young) Stribling ["King of the Canebreaks"/one of the books I've read. Whole career "stopped" once only & in final minute of Title fight vs Max Schmelling. "Young" vs Tyson, *comeon, every-one know Young would WIN ("kidding"!)].
Quite a historical figure there/ you can tell the TRUE/deep fan/ they will KNOW HIS NAME! But, getting into the Formula, I can't do it seems, >HOPELESS<.
Still, when one examines the ratings it's "nonsense" rating Patterson as high as he is. Then, Billy Backus/ HOW IS IT IN "ALL" he outranks Marlon Starling? DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!
Another thing, how is it a modern day boxer can see his "points" + 1 when the records never "alter revealed"? John Wilkinson 1-12 pro welterweight 1988 - 92 has been +/ then, after a time they -/ that/again [boxer is 0-0 /147lb 1-0 154 lb 0-8 160 lb 0-3 168 lb (ea. boxer climb to Top 4 WBC WBA IBF WBO) & 0-1 175/ Matt Mullaney Referee that "match"/by-the-way vs SUERO & it IS NOT in his RECORD]

ImranSarwar · Post by **ImranSarwar** » 14 Oct 2014, 16:29

cold187 wrote:how did marco huck lose points despite a clear UD

Good question. You will see that often when one combs down on RECORDS.

ImranSarwar · Post by **ImranSarwar** » 14 Oct 2014, 16:31

jujigatame wrote:Something seems wrong with Sprott's rating and maybe the ratings of people who've done single-night tournaments in general. Look at his before/after ratings for his last 3 fights, which all happened on 1 night:

Martin Rogan (quarterfinal) 84 -> 102
Anthony Nansen (semifinal) 84 -> 84
Kali Meehan (final) 139 -> 84

It looks like these have been calculated out of order or something. It's doubly mysterious when the ratings list his current point total at 102 as well.

>SPOT ON SELECTION<

ImranSarwar · Post by **ImranSarwar** » 16 Oct 2014, 21:27

Ric wrote:Dempsey and Johnson fell down the rankings Big Time!
http://www.boxrec.com/ratings.php?natio ... &index=100

Charles '3' HA! Patterson '6' HAAAAA! "WHAT A JOKE!" [WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO NOW? HAVE ME "BANNED FOR LIFE"? **Communist Nation......]

jujigatame · Post by **jujigatame** » 20 Oct 2014, 16:00

Also, when you look at some undefeated prospects' records, I think it becomes apparent that the correction for level of competition needs to be slightly modified.

For instance, why did Jordan Shimmell go from 93->111 points for KOing Damon McCreary, who only had 2 points? Surely a guy with 2 points should be considered an abject scrub and a win over such a fighter should be worth nothing to an established fighter coming into the fight with 93 points.

JCS · Post by **JCS** » 20 Oct 2014, 18:49

jujigatame wrote:Also, when you look at some undefeated prospects' records, I think it becomes apparent that the correction for level of competition needs to be slightly modified.

For instance, why did Jordan Shimmell go from 93->111 points for KOing Damon McCreary, who only had 2 points? Surely a guy with 2 points should be considered an abject scrub and a win over such a fighter should be worth nothing to an established fighter coming into the fight with 93 points.

I believe there is a tier system of sorts behind the scenes that limits a boxer until he beats someone in a "higher tier"...

The problem is, McCreary probably got in that higher tier way back in 2001... and hasn't done anything relevant since.

jujigatame · Post by **jujigatame** » 22 Oct 2014, 10:26

That's kind of odd. I feel like the BoxRec system could do with some simplification. If you're an established 13-0 prospect there's no reason a fight against a guy with 2 rating points should do anything for you whatsoever. What McCreary did in 2001 should have little to no impact on what a win over him is worth in 2014.

JCS · Post by **JCS** » 23 Oct 2014, 17:56

jujigatame wrote:That's kind of odd. I feel like the BoxRec system could do with some simplification. If you're an established 13-0 prospect there's no reason a fight against a guy with 2 rating points should do anything for you whatsoever. What McCreary did in 2001 should have little to no impact on what a win over him is worth in 2014.

Yeah.. McCreary is certainly an edge case....

marcianofan · Post by **marcianofan** » 28 Oct 2014, 00:49

Would it be possible to figure out exactly where Joey Vegas was ranked at light heavyweight on June 4, 2014, right before his fight with Dmitry Sukhotsky? Thanks, if so!

computerrank · Post by **computerrank** » 04 Nov 2014, 17:21

marcianofan wrote:Would it be possible to figure out exactly where Joey Vegas was ranked at light heavyweight on June 4, 2014, right before his fight with Dmitry Sukhotsky? Thanks, if so!

#74

Code: Select all

 rk|division            |firstname           |lastname            |    r

---|--------------------|--------------------|--------------------|-----

  1|light heavyweight   |Adonis              |Stevenson           |  911

  2|light heavyweight   |Bernard             |Hopkins             |  790

  3|light heavyweight   |Sergey              |Kovalev             |  585

  4|light heavyweight   |Jean                |Pascal              |  561

  5|light heavyweight   |Julio Cesar         |Chavez Jr           |  523

  6|light heavyweight   |Juergen             |Braehmer            |  434

  7|light heavyweight   |Edwin               |Rodriguez           |  392

  8|light heavyweight   |Chad                |Dawson              |  385

  9|light heavyweight   |Isaac               |Chilemba            |  340

 10|light heavyweight   |Lucian              |Bute                |  327

 11|light heavyweight   |Jose                |Uzcategui           |  319

 12|light heavyweight   |Blake               |Caparello           |  315

 13|light heavyweight   |Thomas              |Williams Jr         |  298

 14|light heavyweight   |Eleider             |Alvarez             |  292

 15|light heavyweight   |Andrzej             |Fonfara             |  291

 16|light heavyweight   |Tavoris             |Cloud               |  285

 17|light heavyweight   |Tony                |Bellew              |  283

 18|light heavyweight   |Jarrod              |Fletcher            |  277

 19|light heavyweight   |Nadjib              |Mohammedi           |  272

 20|light heavyweight   |Dmitry              |Sukhotsky           |  267

 21|light heavyweight   |Robert              |Berridge            |  247

 22|light heavyweight   |Ovill               |McKenzie            |  244

 23|light heavyweight   |Beibut              |Shumenov            |  241

 24|light heavyweight   |Anthony             |Dirrell             |  227

 25|light heavyweight   |Ryno                |Liebenberg          |  216

 26|light heavyweight   |Cedric              |Agnew               |  211

 27|light heavyweight   |Zsolt               |Erdei               |  205

 28|light heavyweight   |Nathan              |Cleverly            |  204

 29|light heavyweight   |Brian               |Vera                |  202

 30|light heavyweight   |Enzo                |Maccarinelli        |  196

 31|light heavyweight   |Roberto Feliciano   |Bolonti             |  193

 32|light heavyweight   |Ryota               |Murata              |  192

 33|light heavyweight   |Callum              |Smith               |  191

 34|light heavyweight   |Youri               |Kayembre Kalenga    |  191

 35|light heavyweight   |Maxim               |Vlasov              |  182

 36|light heavyweight   |Hadillah            |Mohoumadi           |  181

 37|light heavyweight   |Anatoliy            |Dudchenko           |  162

 38|light heavyweight   |Bob                 |Ajisafe             |  162

 39|light heavyweight   |Jackson             |Junior              |  150

 40|light heavyweight   |Allan               |Green               |  145

 41|light heavyweight   |Travis              |Dickinson           |  140

 42|light heavyweight   |Karo                |Murat               |  137

 43|light heavyweight   |Ismayl              |Sillah              |  135

 44|light heavyweight   |Cornelius           |White               |  131

 45|light heavyweight   |Denis               |Grachev             |  129

 46|light heavyweight   |Jonathan            |Gonzalez            |  127

 47|light heavyweight   |Sean                |Monaghan            |  127

 48|light heavyweight   |Rocky               |Fielding            |  126

 49|light heavyweight   |Alejandro           |Berrio              |  120

 50|light heavyweight   |Erik                |Skoglund            |  119

 51|light heavyweight   |Dyah                |Davis               |  113

 52|light heavyweight   |Edison              |Miranda             |  113

 53|light heavyweight   |Gabriel             |Campillo            |  113

 54|light heavyweight   |Robin               |Krasniqi            |  111

 55|light heavyweight   |Radivoje            |Kalajdzic           |  110

 56|light heavyweight   |Harry               |Simon               |  108

 57|light heavyweight   |Lionell             |Thompson            |  105

 58|light heavyweight   |Geard               |Ajetovic            |  105

 59|light heavyweight   |Paul                |Smith               |  103

 60|light heavyweight   |Marcus              |Oliveira            |  102

 61|light heavyweight   |Michael             |Seals               |  102

 62|light heavyweight   |Vyacheslav          |Uzelkov             |  101

 63|light heavyweight   |Igor                |Mikhalkin           |  100

 64|light heavyweight   |Kevin               |Thomas Cojean       |   97

 65|light heavyweight   |Don                 |George              |   95

 66|light heavyweight   |Yusaf               |Mack                |   95

 67|light heavyweight   |Jake                |Carr                |   93

 68|light heavyweight   |Pablo Oscar Natalio |Farias              |   92

 69|light heavyweight   |Robert              |Woge                |   92

 70|light heavyweight   |Yunieski            |Gonzalez            |   91

 71|light heavyweight   |Tony                |Averlant            |   91

 72|light heavyweight   |Jesse               |Hart                |   89

 73|light heavyweight   |Vincent             |Feigenbutz          |   89

 74|light heavyweight   |Joey                |Vegas               |   88

 75|light heavyweight   |Eduard              |Gutknecht           |   88

 76|light heavyweight   |Pawel               |Glazewski           |   85

 77|light heavyweight   |Timy                |Shala               |   85

 78|light heavyweight   |Oleksandr           |Cherviak            |   84

 79|light heavyweight   |Vyacheslav          |Shabranskyy         |   84

 80|light heavyweight   |Dean                |Francis             |   84

 81|light heavyweight   |Stefano             |Abatangelo          |   82

 82|light heavyweight   |Sullivan            |Barrera             |   82

 83|light heavyweight   |Doudou              |Ngumbu              |   81

 84|light heavyweight   |Rohan               |Murdock             |   78

 85|light heavyweight   |Johnny              |Muller              |   77

 86|light heavyweight   |Patrick             |Bois                |   76

 87|light heavyweight   |Aaron               |Pryor Jr            |   74

 88|light heavyweight   |Willbeforce         |Shihepo             |   74

 89|light heavyweight   |Farah               |Ennis               |   73

 90|light heavyweight   |Azea                |Augustama           |   72

 91|light heavyweight   |Fulgencio           |Zuniga              |   72

 92|light heavyweight   |Francis             |Cheka               |   72

 93|light heavyweight   |Ruben Eduardo       |Acosta              |   72

 94|light heavyweight   |Daniel              |MacKinnon           |   71

 95|light heavyweight   |Yuzo                |Kiyota              |   71

 96|light heavyweight   |Bernard             |Donfack             |   71

 97|light heavyweight   |Hakim               |Zoulikha            |   70

 98|light heavyweight   |Isidro              |Ranoni Prieto       |   70

 99|light heavyweight   |Lennox              |Allen               |   70

100|light heavyweight   |Hugo                |Kasperski           |   69

JCS · Post by **JCS** » 18 Nov 2014, 22:56

Martin... do you know where Wladimir would rank in All-Time HW were he to retire today?

Does he have a shot at getting much higher given the current landscape of the division... assuming he has 2-3 more years like his last 5?

computerrank · Post by **computerrank** » 22 Nov 2014, 17:08

JCS wrote:Martin... do you know where Wladimir would rank in All-Time HW were he to retire today?

Does he have a shot at getting much higher given the current landscape of the division... assuming he has 2-3 more years like his last 5?

He would be #13 with 1098 points.

During 2 to 3 additional years he could achieve 270 to 400 additional points - ending at 1370 to 1500 points - at #7 to #5.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 27 Nov 2014, 10:29

Martin: any chance you could tell me the last time that 4 british titles were contested in one show?

computerrank · Post by **computerrank** » 28 Nov 2014, 09:07

@matt___s wrote:Martin: any chance you could tell me the last time that 4 british titles were contested in one show?

Never before ...

Code: Select all

| title | date       |    show |  t_bouts |
| UK    | 1975-09-30 |   55098 |        3 |
| UK    | 2003-11-22 |  348616 |        3 |
| UK    | 2012-10-13 |  649069 |        3 |
| UK    | 1929-05-16 |   20476 |        3 |
| UK    | 2014-11-29 |  699689 |        4 |

Ratings - please read before commenting - Archived

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