British Elite Fighters

[stevedoc]

another way of looking at this to say which british fighter would have a good chance against the top 3/5 ever at that weight ....
so take say nigel benn would he be able to hold his own vs say hagler or roy jones i doubt it . so using that ........

1) lennox lewis .. i was against him as the no1 because he got chinned twice BUT he would have the best chance of beating the greats like Ali ,louis ,marciano and so on
next is harder it's between calzaghe and naz........ i can't see joe beating roy jones but everyone else he seems ok , Naz done things wrong but he had real power and on his night he could ko any feather weight....not saying he'd beat armstrong or pep but he would have a better chance than aboxer rather than a puncher.

after that not sure

[mickey1975]

So now it's an ATG thread? I'm out.

[Ian1973]

another way of looking at this to say which british fighter would have a good chance against the top 3/5 ever at that weight ....
so take say nigel benn would he be able to hold his own vs say hagler or roy jones i doubt it . so using that ........

1) lennox lewis .. i was against him as the no1 because he got chinned twice BUT he would have the best chance of beating the greats like Ali ,louis ,marciano and so on
next is harder it's between calzaghe and naz........ i can't see joe beating roy jones but everyone else he seems ok , Naz done things wrong but he had real power and on his night he could ko any feather weight....not saying he'd beat armstrong or pep but he would have a better chance than aboxer rather than a puncher.

after that not sure

Calzaghe DID beat Roy Jones jnr. OK Roy was past his best but Calzaghe had had years of hand problems which actually caused him to lose a lot of his power and alter the way he fought. No-one ever mentions that. Imagine the fighter he would've become had he not had those problems.

[Final round]

Wtf? So a division has less worth because it doesn't have decades upon decades of depth and history. Surely it has more to do with the fighters competing within it at any given time frame?

I don't really disagee and that's my point. The new divisions rarely have the best fighters -unless it's a whistle stop- and even when they might do (e.g. Ward) there are few decent tests.

I dunno there's been some GREAT fights, opponents and champions in the *ahem newfangled divisions though there are plenty of whistle stops for sure.
I'd still like to see that Super Heavy Weight Divison created

[stevedoc]

another way of looking at this to say which british fighter would have a good chance against the top 3/5 ever at that weight ....
so take say nigel benn would he be able to hold his own vs say hagler or roy jones i doubt it . so using that ........

1) lennox lewis .. i was against him as the no1 because he got chinned twice BUT he would have the best chance of beating the greats like Ali ,louis ,marciano and so on
next is harder it's between calzaghe and naz........ i can't see joe beating roy jones but everyone else he seems ok , Naz done things wrong but he had real power and on his night he could ko any feather weight....not saying he'd beat armstrong or pep but he would have a better chance than aboxer rather than a puncher.

after that not sure

Calzaghe DID beat Roy Jones jnr. OK Roy was past his best but Calzaghe had had years of hand problems which actually caused him to lose a lot of his power and alter the way he fought. No-one ever mentions that. Imagine the fighter he would've become had he not had those problems.

i think joe ko'd 21 of his first 22 fights i know he could dig, but the jones he fought was no more the fighter tyson was when lewis done him . i wish joe's hands held up and i think then yoou have a tighter match but with joe being unable to throw power shots i see it as a hard task for calzaghe to out box a prime 168 jones

[crusader]

Jones was shot to pieces when he fought Joe. I don't think Joe was at his best either, but I doubt he was nearly as faded as Jones.

That win adds nothing to Joe's legacy imo and it says little about how they'd fair against each other in their primes.

[daviddee]

Elite fighters in my eyes is every fighter who steps in the ring with the intensions in winning! We all know boxing is a bit of a joke and very corrupt at times but I don't see how we couldn't class Calzaghe, Hatton, Naz, Burns, Harrisson as Elite fighters!!! These guys give 100% and they were world champions! 12 rounds ain't easy ;)

I agree Audley Harrison is deffo elite :)

[SamWise72]

I would swap Lennox with Joe and be the exact same. 2 reasons for having Lennox just at world class

1) He lost to average fighters and really was losing badly to Vitali before the cut to Vitali saved him that was a head clash and Vitali was ahead on the cards.

2) Lennox was Canadian. He won Olympic Gold for Canada. Shouldn't of ever been able to represent Britain in my opinion.

As for have Joe as an elite fighter

1) He beat everyone put in front of him at both Super Middle and Light Heavy he was regarded as genuinely the worlds best at both weights which make him elite in my eyes. No other of the British boxers mentioned have done that.

2) He beat Roy Jones Jnr no matter which one he beat him

3) He beat Bernard Hopkins who is still at the top of the tree

He fought his entire career in Wales, against fighters you've never heard of. He lost to Bhop, who was 120 years old, and beat the ghost of Roy Jones.

[gilgamesh]

another way of looking at this to say which british fighter would have a good chance against the top 3/5 ever at that weight ....
so take say nigel benn would he be able to hold his own vs say hagler or roy jones i doubt it . so using that ........

1) lennox lewis .. i was against him as the no1 because he got chinned twice BUT he would have the best chance of beating the greats like Ali ,louis ,marciano and so on
next is harder it's between calzaghe and naz........ i can't see joe beating roy jones but everyone else he seems ok , Naz done things wrong but he had real power and on his night he could ko any feather weight....not saying he'd beat armstrong or pep but he would have a better chance than aboxer rather than a puncher.

after that not sure

Calzaghe DID beat Roy Jones jnr. OK Roy was past his best but Calzaghe had had years of hand problems which actually caused him to lose a lot of his power and alter the way he fought. No-one ever mentions that. Imagine the fighter he would've become had he not had those problems.

Ironically it may have helped him that he had those hand injuries. Because it caused him to throw more punches, and probably land more, and also because he wasn't throwing them with a whole lot of force a great deal of the time he threw them faster and left less time for his opponent to counter him. If he had sat down on his punches more, he would've hurt guys more but there's a good chance he would've been countered more as well.

To the topic at hand. I saw a few guys debating that Calzaghe wasn't an elite fighter. He most certainly was elite.

[jessi]

I have not read every response yet but you say froch needs to beat ward to be elite ? That's not fair, ward might go on to be an all time great !! P4P fighters are elite, they can't all win every fight, IMO there's a world class fighter ( someone who can hold his own or possibly win against a top ten fighter )
World champions ( who can win a world title and defend it )

Elite fighters ( who are world champions, defend the belt a few times, if they lose to another fighter they don't take long to win it back )

P4P fighters ( elite fighters who make the top 10 fighters in the world regardless of weight )

ATG ( normally P4P fighters, long reigning champions, multi weight champions ! )

[mickey1975]

I would swap Lennox with Joe and be the exact same. 2 reasons for having Lennox just at world class

1) He lost to average fighters and really was losing badly to Vitali before the cut to Vitali saved him that was a head clash and Vitali was ahead on the cards.

2) Lennox was Canadian. He won Olympic Gold for Canada. Shouldn't of ever been able to represent Britain in my opinion.

As for have Joe as an elite fighter

1) He beat everyone put in front of him at both Super Middle and Light Heavy he was regarded as genuinely the worlds best at both weights which make him elite in my eyes. No other of the British boxers mentioned have done that.

2) He beat Roy Jones Jnr no matter which one he beat him

3) He beat Bernard Hopkins who is still at the top of the tree

He fought his entire career in Wales, against fighters you've never heard of. He lost to Bhop, who was 120 years old, and beat the ghost of Roy Jones.

Except the fights he had all over England, Germany and Denmark and the fact he beat Hopkins?

[black panther]

As much as I love him and I don't think Stevo was ever number #1 featherweight in the world. I would have loved to have seen him fight the other champions mind.

Excuse my badly written post mate!

I didn't mean Stevo was no.1 in his division; I meant Nas at one point in time was the clear no.1 in his division (probably beating a few other title holders).

[stevedoc]

I would swap Lennox with Joe and be the exact same. 2 reasons for having Lennox just at world class

1) He lost to average fighters and really was losing badly to Vitali before the cut to Vitali saved him that was a head clash and Vitali was ahead on the cards.

2) Lennox was Canadian. He won Olympic Gold for Canada. Shouldn't of ever been able to represent Britain in my opinion.

As for have Joe as an elite fighter

1) He beat everyone put in front of him at both Super Middle and Light Heavy he was regarded as genuinely the worlds best at both weights which make him elite in my eyes. No other of the British boxers mentioned have done that.

2) He beat Roy Jones Jnr no matter which one he beat him

3) He beat Bernard Hopkins who is still at the top of the tree

He fought his entire career in Wales, against fighters you've never heard of. He lost to Bhop, who was 120 years old, and beat the ghost of Roy Jones.

it's strange that of the fighters that you've never heard of 10 held world titles ...maybe you need to learn more about fighters before you make such comments ...

[Tuan_Jim]

Except the fights he had all over England, Germany and Denmark and the fact he beat Hopkins?

There's no logic in calling JC elite due to his wins over a clubfighter in Denmark and a journeyman he had previously KOd in 1 in Germany. Hardly mopping up the division. And what body of work did he leave at light heavy? Coming off the floor for a razor-thin win over a middleaged man?

People mocked JC's bum of the month club for years. He was popularly known as "sick note" for his getting injured everytime someone with a pulse was lined up. He beats a mediocrity like Lacy and the success-starved sporting patriots not only rewrite his history but also chant 46-0! 46-0! 46-0! as if numbers alone mean anything. Those 46 wins primarily comprise the journeyman he was widely derided for fighting time after time.

The clutching at straws to try and justify Joe Calzaghe's career choices is one of the more bizarre behaviours you encounter on the Brit forum. En mi opinion.

[stevedoc]

Except the fights he had all over England, Germany and Denmark and the fact he beat Hopkins?

There's no logic in calling JC elite due to his wins over a clubfighter in Denmark and a journeyman he had previously KOd in 1 in Germany. Hardly mopping up the division. And what body of work did he leave at light heavy? Coming off the floor for a razor-thin win over a middleaged man?

People mocked JC's bum of the month club for years. He was popularly known as "sick note" for his getting injured everytime someone with a pulse was lined up. He beats a mediocrity like Lacy and the success-starved sporting patriots not only rewrite his history but also chant 46-0! 46-0! 46-0! as if numbers alone mean anything. Those 46 wins primarily comprise the journeyman he was widely derided for fighting time after time.

The clutching at straws to try and justify Joe Calzaghe's career choices is one of the more bizarre behaviours you encounter on the Brit forum. En mi opinion.

what do you think of hopkins at middle weight ,he got beat twice by the first decent middle wight he fought ,well that's not true he had already been beaten by the first decent fighter in jones ... compared to hopkins calzaghe fought much better fighters rather than blown up welter weights that hopkins like to fight ...and you do know that joe only had two fights at 175 simply because that's were hopkins and jones were he was never a light heavy weight he just went there to bash up a couple of fighters before he retired

[whiskey]

what do you think of hopkins at middle weight ,he got beat twice by the first decent middle wight he fought ,well that's not true he had already been beaten by the first decent fighter in jones ... compared to hopkins calzaghe fought much better fighters rather than blown up welter weights that hopkins like to fight ...and you do know that joe only had two fights at 175 simply because that's were hopkins and jones were he was never a light heavy weight he just went there to bash up a couple of fighters before he retired

[stevedoc]

:

what do you think of hopkins at middle weight ,he got beat twice by the first decent middle wight he fought ,well that's not true he had already been beaten by the first decent fighter in jones ... compared to hopkins calzaghe fought much better fighters rather than blown up welter weights that hopkins like to fight ...and you do know that joe only had two fights at 175 simply because that's were hopkins and jones were he was never a light heavy weight he just went there to bash up a couple of fighters before he retired

..

[mickey1975]

Except the fights he had all over England, Germany and Denmark and the fact he beat Hopkins?

There's no logic in calling JC elite due to his wins over a clubfighter in Denmark and a journeyman he had previously KOd in 1 in Germany. Hardly mopping up the division. And what body of work did he leave at light heavy? Coming off the floor for a razor-thin win over a middleaged man?

People mocked JC's bum of the month club for years. He was popularly known as "sick note" for his getting injured everytime someone with a pulse was lined up. He beats a mediocrity like Lacy and the success-starved sporting patriots not only rewrite his history but also chant 46-0! 46-0! 46-0! as if numbers alone mean anything. Those 46 wins primarily comprise the journeyman he was widely derided for fighting time after time.

The clutching at straws to try and justify Joe Calzaghe's career choices is one of the more bizarre behaviours you encounter on the Brit forum. En mi opinion.

I'm hardly clutching at straws when you say he spent his entire career in Wales when he clearly never. Even early on in his career, he boxed away loads of times. I'd be surprised if he boxed more than half of his career in Wales. I'm pointing out a fact, nothing to do with his boxing ability, you are completely wrong.

[Final round]

18/46 fights took place in Wales.

[nitro5912]

Isn't Hopkins still a world champion now?

So if yrs after joe beat the old man version of Hopkins how the light heavies he is beating now must feel embarrassed losing to a dinosaur version.

The jones fight was with a past it jones but I think every fight bhop has now at world level and wins adds credence to joes win over him. In my opinion

[mickey1975]

18/46 fights took place in Wales.

How many of RJJ's fights took place outside the States?

[whiskey]

He's fought twice in Russia and once in Poland in just his last couple of fights.

[mickey1975]

He's fought twice in Russia and once in Poland in just his last couple of fights.

Three times in his last couple is very impressive, even for Roy. Mixed results though, obviously doesn't travel well, easy fight for Joe in Wales in early 00's.

[whiskey]

obviously doesn't travel well, easy fight for Joe in Wales in early 00's.

Oh definitely.

I think Joe would knock out a prime Roy Jones Jr in the first round.

Obviously before his "terrible hands".

[mickey1975]

obviously doesn't travel well, easy fight for Joe in Wales in early 00's.

Oh definitely.

I think Joe would knock out a prime Roy Jones Jr in the first round.

Obviously before his "terrible hands".

Obviously! Otherwise he'd have just have had to out score him like he did everyone else.