British Elite Fighters

[Ezzard]

Honeyghan.

Curry had cleaned the division out but Honeyghan crushed him. Won a hard fought but well-earned decision over the underrated Blocker… Then he went off the boil. But for a while he was certainly the best man in the division.

I’d have to say yes to Lennox. And whilst there is some truth to the anti-Calzaghe arguments I’d have to say yes to him too. Longevity counts.

I’m not sure that losing to Ward should bar Froch entry into this club. Hearns lost to Leonard. Archie Moore lost to Ezzard Charles three times. Too simplistic.

[stevedoc]

Honeyghan.

Curry had cleaned the division out but Honeyghan crushed him. Won a hard fought but well-earned decision over the underrated Blocker… Then he went off the boil. But for a while he was certainly the best man in the division.

I’d have to say yes to Lennox. And whilst there is some truth to the anti-Calzaghe arguments I’d have to say yes to him too. Longevity counts.

I’m not sure that losing to Ward should bar Froch entry into this club. Hearns lost to Leonard. Archie Moore lost to Ezzard Charles three times. Too simplistic.

if froch is there then surely naz hamed should be to ,he only lost to barrera who rates higher than ward for me .

[DMA1987]

Honeyghan.

Curry had cleaned the division out but Honeyghan crushed him. Won a hard fought but well-earned decision over the underrated Blocker… Then he went off the boil. But for a while he was certainly the best man in the division.

I’d have to say yes to Lennox. And whilst there is some truth to the anti-Calzaghe arguments I’d have to say yes to him too. Longevity counts.

I’m not sure that losing to Ward should bar Froch entry into this club. Hearns lost to Leonard. Archie Moore lost to Ezzard Charles three times. Too simplistic.

I'm still a little confused as to whether we are talking about Elite british fighters, or potential HOF entries.

Froch won't ever get into the Hall, but he is an elite British fighter. I don't think he should be mentioned alongside Tommy Hearns or Archie Moore though, two much better fighters.

Naz was definitely an elite British fighter too. Don't see the debate on that one.

[Tuan_Jim]

How many of RJJ's fights took place outside the States?

More wilful blindness.

When Roy Jones was in his prime world class boxing was America. You know it, I know it, we all know it. Hopkins, Toney, Hill, Johnson, Griffin. Where exactly was he expected to box these Americans? In Mongolia? Now he's an old man taking his big name wherever the money is. To use his current form as evidence that he doesn't travel well-rather than the fact he is a totally shot 40+ year old man-is the confused reasoning of a simpleton.

Wales was never the home of world class boxing. It was only ever the home of Joe Calzaghe, stood proudly atop his ghastly WBO dung heap.

[stevedoc]

How many of RJJ's fights took place outside the States?

More wilful blindness.

When Roy Jones was in his prime world class boxing was America. You know it, I know it, we all know it. Hopkins, Toney, Hill, Johnson, Griffin. Where exactly was he expected to box these Americans? In Mongolia? Now he's an old man taking his big name wherever the money is. To use his current form as evidence that he doesn't travel well-rather than the fact he is a totally shot 40+ year old man-is the confused reasoning of a simpleton.

Wales was never the home of world class boxing. It was only ever the home of Joe Calzaghe, stood proudly atop his ghastly WBO dung heap.

there's a reason it's called a world title not a american title ....what's that green day song....

[mickey1975]

How many of RJJ's fights took place outside the States?

More wilful blindness.

When Roy Jones was in his prime world class boxing was America. You know it, I know it, we all know it. Hopkins, Toney, Hill, Johnson, Griffin. Where exactly was he expected to box these Americans? In Mongolia? Now he's an old man taking his big name wherever the money is. To use his current form as evidence that he doesn't travel well-rather than the fact he is a totally shot 40+ year old man-is the confused reasoning of a simpleton.

Wales was never the home of world class boxing. It was only ever the home of Joe Calzaghe, stood proudly atop his ghastly WBO dung heap.

Hopkins challenged for the second time in Ecuador. More wilful blindness that can't handle the fact that no matter how many holes you pick in Calzaghes record, he will always be undefeated. The Americans hated it, that's why they sent over Lacy to beat him up on neutral territory... Same as they sent for McLellan over to beat Nigel. There's a reason the 12stoners daren't come over...

[Tuan_Jim]

Hopkins challenged for the second time in Ecuador. More wilful blindness that can't handle the fact that no matter how many holes you pick in Calzaghes record, he will always be undefeated. The Americans hated it, that's why they sent over Lacy to beat him up on neutral territory... Same as they sent for McLellan over to beat Nigel. There's a reason the 12stoners daren't come over...

Jesus. You really do sound like a frothing at the mouth nationalist. Every fight you list took place in said location for purely financial reasons, rather than the country being the centre of world class boxing - which is the point of the whole argument. And somehow I doubt that Andre Ward breaks out in hives at the thought of coming over here.

Take off the England shirt and go read some books.

[stevedoc]

Hopkins challenged for the second time in Ecuador. More wilful blindness that can't handle the fact that no matter how many holes you pick in Calzaghes record, he will always be undefeated. The Americans hated it, that's why they sent over Lacy to beat him up on neutral territory... Same as they sent for McLellan over to beat Nigel. There's a reason the 12stoners daren't come over...

Jesus. You really do sound like a frothing at the mouth nationalist. Every fight you list took place in said location for purely financial reasons, rather than the country being the centre of world class boxing - which is the point of the whole argument. And somehow I doubt that Andre Ward breaks out in hives at the thought of coming over here.

Take off the England shirt and go read some books.

get a passport and see some of the world instead of living in your own cocoon ,there's life outside of america ...you've probaly never been outside your own state .....how sad

[mickey1975]

Hopkins challenged for the second time in Ecuador. More wilful blindness that can't handle the fact that no matter how many holes you pick in Calzaghes record, he will always be undefeated. The Americans hated it, that's why they sent over Lacy to beat him up on neutral territory... Same as they sent for McLellan over to beat Nigel. There's a reason the 12stoners daren't come over...

Jesus. You really do sound like a frothing at the mouth nationalist. Every fight you list took place in said location for purely financial reasons, rather than the country being the centre of world class boxing - which is the point of the whole argument. And somehow I doubt that Andre Ward breaks out in hives at the thought of coming over here.

Take off the England shirt and go read some books.

Joe is a Welshman with Italian blood? Go read a book...

[Grant]

Do we count Ken Buchanan?
I can remember him in against a pretty good era of fighters

[Tuan_Jim]

get a passport and see some of the world instead of living in your own cocoon ,there's life outside of america ...you've probaly never been outside your own state .....how sad

I'm an English man living in Blighty.

[SamWise72]

An ambitious fighter would have fought the best, wherever the fights had to happen. Joe was not an ambitious fighter. He wanted to keep his title and retire rich, and fair play to him, but he didn't pursue the best fights out there, and he sat on that B grade title til the moment he was prepared to take on a real top player. Fair play to him, he won, and I think he would have won against most or all prior to that too, but he didn't fight them. Ottke was playing the same game. A fighter's rep can't really be based on what he could have done, but rather on what he actually did, and what Joe did was take the WBO title home, and make a lot of safe defences and home derbys.

[stevedoc]

get a passport and see some of the world instead of living in your own cocoon ,there's life outside of america ...you've probaly never been outside your own state .....how sad

I'm an English man living in Blighty.

i don't believe it

[mickey1975]

An ambitious fighter would have fought the best, wherever the fights had to happen. Joe was not an ambitious fighter. He wanted to keep his title and retire rich, and fair play to him, but he didn't pursue the best fights out there, and he sat on that B grade title til the moment he was prepared to take on a real top player. Fair play to him, he won, and I think he would have won against most or all prior to that too, but he didn't fight them. Ottke was playing the same game. A fighter's rep can't really be based on what he could have done, but rather on what he actually did, and what Joe did was take the WBO title home, and make a lot of safe defences and home derbys.

Why didn't Roy travel? Because he got robbed in Seoul? That's as poor an excuse as Joe's fear of flying. Bad decisions happen constantly in the amateur game, get over it.

[Final round]

Loaded Gloves

[whiskey]

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/i-am-th ... 52495.html

[Bard of Boxrec]

what do you think of hopkins at middle weight ,he got beat twice by the first decent middle wight he fought ,well that's not true he had already been beaten by the first decent fighter in jones ... compared to hopkins calzaghe fought much better fighters rather than blown up welter weights that hopkins like to fight ...and you do know that joe only had two fights at 175 simply because that's were hopkins and jones were he was never a light heavy weight he just went there to bash up a couple of fighters before he retired

You know, I actually agree with stevedoc here. Bernard's middleweight wins were hardly against a murderer's row. Glen Johnson was a good one. Then you've got blown-up welterweight Felix Trinidad who was subsequently beat by Winky Wright and was never good enough to beat a solid, slick boxer. Then guys like Robert Allen and Antwun Echols, who were of a comparable level to some of Joe's foes. Then the likes of Carl Daniels and Morrade Hakkar.

[Tuan_Jim]

Hopkins reign at middleweight was indeed against a mostly faceless mob. But exactly what Hopkins & his middleweight victims have to do with British fighters and deciding which ones were elite eludes me. Probably my fault.

As far as JC goes, Froch will be remembered far more fondly.

[mickey1975]

Hopkins reign at middleweight was indeed against a mostly faceless mob. But exactly what Hopkins & his middleweight victims have to do with British fighters and deciding which ones were elite eludes me. Probably my fault.

As far as JC goes, Froch will be remembered far more fondly.

In your opinion.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Hopkins reign at middleweight was indeed against a mostly faceless mob. But exactly what Hopkins & his middleweight victims have to do with British fighters and deciding which ones were elite eludes me. Probably my fault.

As far as JC goes, Froch will be remembered far more fondly.

Yeah your guess is as good as mine what his point was. But I agree with the sentiment of Hopkins having a weak MW reign :)

Anyway, it's all just semantics. Could Calzaghe be considered 'elite'? Well, maybe, if you widen the definition of the category slightly. Was he a level or so below Jones? Definitely, not too many sane people out there would pick Calzaghe in that one. But noone in the last 20 years could have beaten a prime Jones.

[stevedoc]

Hopkins reign at middleweight was indeed against a mostly faceless mob. But exactly what Hopkins & his middleweight victims have to do with British fighters and deciding which ones were elite eludes me. Probably my fault.

As far as JC goes, Froch will be remembered far more fondly.

bruno will remembered more fondly than lennox lewis ..................doesn't really mean a lot

[misterpunch]

of course buchanan deserves elite status - duran rated him as one of his toughest opponents and the guy was sheer class, had the heart of a lion too.

ken was great