top 5 brit supermiddle champs

[SamWise72]

I would rank Eubank above Froch on ability, though not on results. He was lazy, and after Watson he was also unwilling to really go after people (understandably), but he hit harder than Froch, had at least an equal chin, and could do some extraordinary things.

[mickey1975]

Can we just rank them on their careers, please? Ability doesn't mean anything if your displaying it in kebab shops and Prizefighters.

[Boxerbeetle]

Can we just rank them on their careers, please? Ability doesn't mean anything if your displaying it in kebab shops and Prizefighters.

Yep agree with this. Even if Francis could somehow have turned out to be the best British boxer ever, we'll never know as his career was effectively ended by injury so early on, so it's impossible to really rate him properly & ridiculous to rank him in the top 5 British super-middles.

[polecateddy]

Can we just rank them on their careers, please? Ability doesn't mean anything if your displaying it in kebab shops and Prizefighters.

Yep agree with this. Even if Francis could somehow have turned out to be the best British boxer ever, we'll never know as his career was effectively ended by injury so early on, so it's impossible to really rate him properly & ridiculous to rank him in the top 5 British super-middles.

Well I think it's possible to look at his early form and put him on par with Woodhall, Catley and Reid, as frankly none of them were that mind blowingly good. His form against David Starie and Frederic Seillier was superior to a number of his contempories.

[mickey1975]

So Reids wins over Nardiello and Wharton, plus his debatable losses to Ottke and Calzaghe aren't superior to ANYTHING Francis has done? I suggest you YouTube Calzaghe-Francis...

[polecateddy]

So Reids wins over Nardiello and Wharton, plus his debatable losses to Ottke and Calzaghe aren't superior to ANYTHING Francis has done? I suggest you YouTube Calzaghe-Francis...

Yes those were Reid's two best performances, although I would suggest David Starie would also have beaten both of them, never mind Francis. Those were also against a flakey Italian and a fighter most international class fighters could give a boxing lesson too. Nardiello floored Warton and would have beaten him if he wasn't so lacking in heart.

[mickey1975]

So Reids wins over Nardiello and Wharton, plus his debatable losses to Ottke and Calzaghe aren't superior to ANYTHING Francis has done? I suggest you YouTube Calzaghe-Francis...

Yes those were Reid's two best performances, although I would suggest David Starie would also have beaten both of them, never mind Francis. Those were also against a flakey Italian and a fighter most international class fighters could give a boxing lesson too. Nardiello floored Warton and would have beaten him if he wasn't so lacking in heart.

Nardiello and Wharton had much better careers than either! Henry knocked Galvano out, and stopped Nardiello, I have little doubt he'd have took Francis head off.

[nitro5912]

I think calzaghe gets the top spot then froch. Then it's anyone's guess out of a talented bunch.

We were talking about this down the gym the other night. Britain always produces top middle/super middleweight fighters. Surely it has to be outmost dominate division ever

[manno]

On ability;

Joe Calzaghe
Carl Froch
Dean Francis (former Euro champ not world)
Richie Woodhall
Chris Eubank

The margins are tight after Froch, with Collins probably being a little overrated at supermiddle generally as Benn/Eubank were past their best. Honourable mentions for Glen Catley and Robin Reid. Benn is hard to place, but should be 6th I suppose.

I was fortunate enoug to see Dean Francis in his prime and he had a lot of potential, but to put him above the likes of Eubank, Benn and Collins on ability is crazy.

He'd be lucky to get in the top ten.

Wouldnt suprise me to have seen the shopworn,old version of Herol Graham who went life and death with Brewer beat Francis. Too many intangibles and what ifs? For Dean to be even considered in this list IMO. Wharton,Catley and Graham all in front of him after the top five.

[mickey1975]

And Reid, Magee, Groves and DeGale! Top 15, maybe.

[polecateddy]

I agree Graham is a wild card. Things didn't go right ultimately with Brewer, but I enjoyed his comeback. Beating Chris Johnson was unexpected and a brilliant performance.

[Taansend]

I'm generally not into ranking past fighters/P4P stuff (unless I am drunk & opinionated) so I'll just give my opinion on each of the (fairly) obvious top five.

(On a completely uninteresting side note ALL FIVE have surnames that begin within the 1st six letters of the alphabet Coincidence or Alien intervention?)

Nigel Benn - Watched him win the ABA title wearing West Ham shorts . Followed his whole career & went to about 15 of his bouts. Huge heart, great speed & that punch. Appears to have the best win of any British Super-Middle. I still watch a great montage of his fights on Youtube on a regular basis.

Joe Calzaghe - Remember him well for being the first British fighter since WWII to win three ABA titles in three different weights in three consecutive years (I think). This is back when it meant something & the ABAs were often shown on national tv. Knew he was special from the off but his career was dampened by his Ottke style matchmaking during the middle years. Fought some quality fighters towards the end & his wins against Kessler & Hopkins look better with time.

Steve Collins - I saw him on a Benn undercard when he was a boxer before he turned brawler. Very dull fight in which he jabbed his way through. Loved how he turned it around and - although they were slightly shopworn - still got great wins against Benn & Eubank. I'm still shocked that he called it a day when he did but fair play to the lad.

Chris Eubank - In my humble opinion he could have been one of the top three British Boxers of all time had it not been for the Watson tragedy. I realise this is slightly controversial but I went to many of his early bouts & he had incredible timing, a decent punch & a world class chin. 'Posed' a little too much but still found a way to win. Had a great KO record before the Watson rematch but a terrible one afterwards. I know his opposition improved but if you were around then & following him you knew he was trying to win without really trying to hurt his opponent.

Car Froch - I said before the Groves rematch (I thought Groves was cheated in the first bout but not Carl's fault) that if Froch was a Greek Warrior a part of our body would be named after him. Possibly even the heart (Call a facking ambulance - he's had a Froch attack). Amazing warrior & a smarter boxer than given credit for. When he turned pro I remember thinking of him as more of a stylist.

Toss in Henry Wharton, Richie Woodhall & Robin Reid & imagine the Super 8 Tourny we'd have

[polecateddy]

I think it's fair Glen Catley is above Woodhall, as he was ripped off by the judges when they fought and he has better victories to his name. Conversely who isn't to say Woodhall couldn't have outboxed Froch. It's certainly possible. Also, perhaps Graham could have had a field day with the plodding Warton. I personally on ability it's not as clear cut as just picking the obvious Calzaghe, Froch, Collins, Benn and Eubank.

[mickey1975]

I think it's fair Glen Catley is above Woodhall, as he was ripped off by the judges when they fought and he has better victories to his name. Conversely who isn't to say Woodhall couldn't have outboxed Froch. It's certainly possible. Also, perhaps Graham could have had a field day with the plodding Warton. I personally on ability it's not as clear cut as just picking the obvious Calzaghe, Froch, Collins, Benn and Eubank.

But only you are going on ability(which you're wrong about as well). The question is the top 5 12st champs, and they pick themselves.

[manno]

I think it's fair Glen Catley is above Woodhall, as he was ripped off by the judges when they fought and he has better victories to his name. Conversely who isn't to say Woodhall couldn't have outboxed Froch. It's certainly possible. Also, perhaps Graham could have had a field day with the plodding Warton. I personally on ability it's not as clear cut as just picking the obvious Calzaghe, Froch, Collins, Benn and Eubank.

But only you are going on ability(which you're wrong about as well). The question is the top 5 12st champs, and they pick themselves.

I think Wharton would've have caught up with The super middle version of Herol at some point in the fight, as you say plodding or a bit one paced but when he had a man going was a sight to behold, straight thru the gears till his man was nailed to the floor. Love Herol to bits but Henry would ve tanned his right hand side up and down till he buckled

[manno]

I think it's fair Glen Catley is above Woodhall, as he was ripped off by the judges when they fought and he has better victories to his name. Conversely who isn't to say Woodhall couldn't have outboxed Froch. It's certainly possible. Also, perhaps Graham could have had a field day with the plodding Warton. I personally on ability it's not as clear cut as just picking the obvious Calzaghe, Froch, Collins, Benn and Eubank.

But only you are going on ability(which you're wrong about as well). The question is the top 5 12st champs, and they pick themselves.

I think Wharton would've have caught up with The super middle version of Herol at some point in the fight, as you say plodding or a bit one paced but when he had a man going was a sight to behold, straight thru the gears till his man was nailed to the floor. Love Herol to bits but Henry would ve tanned his right hand side up and down till he buckled

[polecateddy]

Warton's power was a bit overrated. He was left hook happy and only had a stoppage ratio around 50%. Bar Nardiello everyone decent he fought ended up looking great against him. The only other decent win on his record was stopping Rick Thornberry, who later went the distance with an injured Calzaghe and a powderpuff punching Ottke. Surely his predictable style would have made a Graham look brilliant too. I personally don't think Warton's management would have let him anywhere near Graham unless it was for a major title.

[zidane]

Eubank got the better of Benn. Collins got the better of both of em. Froch has fought the most world class opponents but lost a couple. Calzaghe beat everyone put in front of him. So I would go 1.Calzaghe 2 Froch 3 Collins 4 Eubank 5 Benn. Having said that, Benn was my favourite and the most exciting and at his best he could have KO'd any one of them.

[mickey1975]

Warton's power was a bit overrated. He was left hook happy and only had a stoppage ratio around 50%. Bar Nardiello everyone decent he fought ended up looking great against him. The only other decent win on his record was stopping Rick Thornberry, who later went the distance with an injured Calzaghe and a powderpuff punching Ottke. Surely his predictable style would have made a Graham look brilliant too. I personally don't think Warton's management would have let him anywhere near Graham unless it was for a major title.

20 inside the distance out of 27 wins? 7 in the first round. He dropped Gent 3 or 4 times in his draw. Overrated power...

[expe]

Warton's power was a bit overrated. He was left hook happy and only had a stoppage ratio around 50%. Bar Nardiello everyone decent he fought ended up looking great against him. The only other decent win on his record was stopping Rick Thornberry, who later went the distance with an injured Calzaghe and a powderpuff punching Ottke. Surely his predictable style would have made a Graham look brilliant too. I personally don't think Warton's management would have let him anywhere near Graham unless it was for a major title.

20 inside the distance out of 27 wins? 7 in the first round. He dropped Gent 3 or 4 times in his draw. Overrated power...

Not sure how 20/27 = 50% either

[manno]

Warton's power was a bit overrated. He was left hook happy and only had a stoppage ratio around 50%. Bar Nardiello everyone decent he fought ended up looking great against him. The only other decent win on his record was stopping Rick Thornberry, who later went the distance with an injured Calzaghe and a powderpuff punching Ottke. Surely his predictable style would have made a Graham look brilliant too. I personally don't think Warton's management would have let him anywhere near Graham unless it was for a major title.

20 inside the distance out of 27 wins? 7 in the first round. He dropped Gent 3 or 4 times in his draw. Overrated power...

Like I said am well aware of herols strengths but they had seriously diminished by the time he was beating, ford, Joseph,Paz,Johnson n the thriller with brewer. While still a good fighter not the fighter he was. Frank grant walked him downn at middle( personal problems were blamed). Trained with him plenty during this time and never seen him hit in his whole 1st career than during sparring. He still carries a scar on his nose from sparrin with Henry maske just b4 his comeback. Only known Wharton stopped once and that was world class opposition as an amateur. Herol wouldn't have perturbed him neither the gas to stay away for twelve I'm afraid

[lefty]

I think it's fair Glen Catley is above Woodhall, as he was ripped off by the judges when they fought and he has better victories to his name. Conversely who isn't to say Woodhall couldn't have outboxed Froch. It's certainly possible. Also, perhaps Graham could have had a field day with the plodding Warton. I personally on ability it's not as clear cut as just picking the obvious Calzaghe, Froch, Collins, Benn and Eubank.

Not in a million years.

[Kaaspeer]

1: Joe Calzaghe
2: Carl Froch
3: Chris Eubank
The rest is arguable, but the top 3 can't be argued against.

[Finn]

Calzaghe
Eubank
Benn
Froch
Collins

[danamba7]

Bit late on this one. Really struggling to split the middle 3. Calzaghe 1 and Collins 5 for me but the other 3 are really close. Collins' wins make it strange to put him 5th but I personally see a prime Eubank and Benn beating him which would negate his best wins. Calzaghe's skills are the best of the 5 as most would agree, however on skills alone I think the likes of Froch and Benn could steam roll him. It's the fact Calzaghe had the toughness to go with it. Didn't take anywhere near as many shots as Froch due to better defensive skills but took them well when he had to.