Did Tyson really Duck Foreman!?

[keithmoonhangover]

About 7 years ago I emailed George as he said on his website that he'd be the one to answer personally, so I asked him about Tyson and how come they didn't fight. He said ' oh boy that's the fight I wanted ' he said when Tyson was champ he tried and tried to get the fight made but Tyson or his team wouldn't make the fight and he also said that when Tyson lost the title he was more interested in going after the champ as he wanted to be the champion of the world.

Great post.

That's goes along with what was said on the video I posted. The title was the most important thing for George and when Tyson lost it, George switched focus.

As for Tyson/King ducking him. Foreman was unranked by the WBA and IBF when Tyson lost to Douglas, so the fight couldn't have happened before the Douglas loss.

[Jan]

About 7 years ago I emailed George as he said on his website that he'd be the one to answer personally, so I asked him about Tyson and how come they didn't fight. He said ' oh boy that's the fight I wanted ' he said when Tyson was champ he tried and tried to get the fight made but Tyson or his team wouldn't make the fight and he also said that when Tyson lost the title he was more interested in going after the champ as he wanted to be the champion of the world.

King would have never let that fight happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmG_gR576EA

at 1:30 Foreman says King offered him to fight Tyson. If this is true that tyson actually dident duck foreman..

[dempseyfire]

Mind you Foreman came back in 1987 and by the time Tyson-Douglas was around, Team Tyson was set to do a three fight deal in which it would have been: Holyfield, Foreman, and (believe it or not) Francesco Damiani. I can't remember the particular order, but that's generally what was going to happen had he of beaten Douglas in Tokyo. Tyson didn't fear the Italian or Holyfield, because nobody thought Holyfield had the stuff to make heavyweight champ, but he was leary of Foreman. The old lessons that D'Amato taught him stuck with him in his mind, one being to 'Never underestimate a man who had once known greatness, for on any given night he can regain that greatness'. Foreman was essentially Tyson himself, but was now older, wiser, etc. Of them all, Foreman quite possibly could have given Tyson the hardest time of them all.

Tyson always was fearful of Evander in the sense that he had no confidence he could beat him. He knew Holyfield had no fear of him and he knew Evander was the better fighter.

Tyson didn't have the confidence to fight someone he knew was unafraid of him. .

This is such mythological crap I think first spouted by Teddy Atlas and it gained a life of its own from there. Tyson fought (and flattened) tons of guys who were not afraid of him . . Ribalta, Tubbs, Tucker, Bruno (the first time), Thomas, Holmes etc. That Tyson was just a bully and could only beat people shaking in their boots a la Michael Spinks is bogus. He became more that way when he was older post prison (esp. post Holyfield) because he knew in his mid 30s he lacked the conditioning and drive of his youth. Even though Botha certainly wasn't afraid of Mike and he got flattened too.

[Bricks]

[quote="SaadOffTheDeck

Whatever helps you sleep at night. Repeating ourselves for another couple pages is a waste of time. You wanted a question answered and I answered it. I'm done now.

[/quote]

Your answer was weasling out baloney and you know it.foreman in 90-91 was far far more money than a Ruddock fight and all the American boxing media perceived it as a sadistic mismatch a walk over a murder waiting to happen.the new York media in particular had disparaged foreman comeback from the get go and weren't moved by the Cooney and Rodriguez annihalations.the world boxing fans and veteran trainers like futch and dundee on the other hand had a different opinion,they wanted to see it,and after douglas they believed it was doable as a matchup.

In hindsight now,knowing how good foreman mk 2 actually was and how fast tyson was slipping in 1990-91,I believe George would have given mike a helluva fight and won by stoppage. And likewise the story that tyson feared foreman cos cus told him never to fight him,is revisionist baloney at best and an old wives tale at worst.

Cue died in 85 and foreman was 8 years retired and 36-37.there would have been no reason for cuts to the k tyson and George might have to consider the prospect of sharing a ring one day

[Bricks]

About 7 years ago I emailed George as he said on his website that he'd be the one to answer personally, so I asked him about Tyson and how come they didn't fight. He said ' oh boy that's the fight I wanted ' he said when Tyson was champ he tried and tried to get the fight made but Tyson or his team wouldn't make the fight and he also said that when Tyson lost the title he was more interested in going after the champ as he wanted to be the champion of the world.

King would have never let that fight happen.

I suppose that's why the Stewart-tyson and foreman-Rodriguez doubleheader was done by king and arum. I mean if king had no interest he wouldn't have been doing business with an enemy like arum.king knew it'd be megabucks he wanted it

[tennessee]

as good as Iron Mike was at head movement, his moving the fight contract back and forth was too much for Big George to sign.

[nexxus6]

Someone needs to explain to me what comeback Foreman did to make them believe he would beat prime or even post prison Tyson? Got beat up by alex stewart, lost to holyfield, lost to Tommy morrison for christsakes! The only beat a good fighter albeit one with a weak chin in Moorer, in a fight he was badly losing. He simply did not have the cardio at that age to put pressure on mike the way holyfield did, and mike had a good chin, he was not getting one punched.

[nexxus6]

Someone needs to explain to me exactly what comeback foreman did to make them think he beats prime (or even 96) tyson? Battered by alex stewart, beaten by holy, beaten by tommy freakin morrison, losing badly to moorer before knocking him out. One good win against a weak chinned opponent. Tyson was not getting one punched by anybody and foreman didn't have the cardio to put pressure on him like holyfield did.

[wvboxer]

Foreman always wanted Tyson because he loved short or crouching fighters. Duck into that uppercut & it was over. I know this sounds crazy but I don't think Tyson wanted to fight Foreman out of respect. He's such a historian. I always thought he didn't want to hurt him. He didn't like Holmes so that was different. He also was aware of Foreman's success against short fighters. I think he didn't fight him out of mostly respect with a small dose of caution. Plus, why bother? Foreman didn't have a belt.

[Caractacus]

Tyson would have been too much in awe of George Foreman.
For one thing Foreman had a direct link to one of Mike Tyson's heroes(Sonny Liston).
Foreman was a sparring partner of Liston's from 1968-1969.

[Jan]

Foreman says on twitter that tyson dident duck anyone!!

[keithmoonhangover]

No way Tyson ducked Foreman. The proof is King offering George a contract.

[Controversial]

Foreman was quite protected in his comeback. He fought a lot of stiffs and basically got himself a title shot by not really fighting anyone decent. Most were coming off a defeat, some former cruiserweights and Cooney was dragged out of retirement to add a bit of credibility to the comeback.

Qawi actually soaked up many big punches from Foreman and he was supposedly used as practice for Foreman's planned fight with Tyson, as he was short too. Considering Qawi was only 5'7" tall, a cruiserweight who hadn't fought at HW before, went into the fight well overweight (over 30lbs heavier than his previous fight) and with only 2-3 weeks notice, Foreman actually struggled and was behind on points after a few rounds if I remember rightly.

On a side note its interesting that Foreman in his first career also actually fought a lot a small guys, many weighing under 200lbs.

Tyson wins.

[keithmoonhangover]

No way Tyson ducked Foreman. The proof is King offering George a contract.

You don't even LISTEN to what is said in your own video.

George Foreman.

" I was more afraid of King and the dotted line ( on the obviously dubious contract ) than I am of Tyson "



If that doesn't tell you something it should.

Either

1. You are a blind Tyson fan boy

or

2. You are naive enough to believe King is an honest guy.

Only retards sign ANYTHING Don King puts in front of them. The only " credit " you can give King is he doesn't discriminate. He rips off legends like Ali, Chavez, and Tyson as well as the two bob journeymen types he uses.

I'm not a Tyson fan. I don't think King is an honest guy.

[BoxBuzz]

The preponderance of the evidence supports Tyson dragging his feet regarding any Foreman fight.
If not Tyson, those around him. Foreman had NO issue taking the fight. It would have been good money,(save Foremans concerns about King) and the info from the Tyson camp was that Foreman was a very good contender to look past.


So out and out duck is hard to say, but enthusiastically seeking alternative options? There's a pretty good case for that.

Foreman was at least open and honest enough to say he wanted no part of Lennox. Or at least he didn't fancy his chances in such a bout.

[Ambling Alp II]

Just because two guys didn't fight doesn't mean that either fighter did any ducking.

[BoxBuzz]

Just because two guys didn't fight doesn't mean that either fighter did any ducking.

Agreed....but there's more info on this than just a fight that never took place.

[Controversial]

Foreman always wanted Tyson because he loved short or crouching fighters. Duck into that uppercut & it was over. I know this sounds crazy but I don't think Tyson wanted to fight Foreman out of respect. He's such a historian. I always thought he didn't want to hurt him. He didn't like Holmes so that was different. He also was aware of Foreman's success against short fighters. I think he didn't fight him out of mostly respect with a small dose of caution. Plus, why bother? Foreman didn't have a belt.

Did you see him versus Qawi?

[Ambling Alp II]

Just because two guys didn't fight doesn't mean that either fighter did any ducking.

Agreed....but there's more info on this than just a fight that never took place.

Do you mean something like this:
1.There is no way a middle aged Foreman would have beaten Tyson.
2. Tyson knew that.
3. So Tyson had no reason to duck him.

[Ambling Alp II]

It doesn't matter if Foreman was not intimidated. He simply lacked the ability to defeat Tyson when he was in his 40s. Look at any of his comeback fights. Even at his best he was too slow, had to fight at a very slow pace, was easy to hit.
Tyson would hit a lot more than he would hit Tyson. He sin't going to be a ble to win a decision. He didn't have the power to put Tyson away.
He struggled with several fighters no where near Tyson's level. He barely beat Alex Stewart, Lou Savarese. Got a gift decison against Alex Schulz. Lost to Tommy Morrison. Do we need to go on?

Doubt Tyson thought he had any chance of losing to Foreman.

A prime Foreman is a totally diofferent story. I would pick him against Tyson.

[Controversial]

He certainly did have the power to put Tyson away in his 40's. The Foreman from 89 - 91 hits Tyson plenty hard and often enough to make him quit fighting like he did in the Douglas fight. If anything Tyson couldn't knock the bigger Foreman over, and that would make the rot set in.

You really think he was perfectly happy to fight the 38 year old, out of the ring almost 2 years Holmes, but he simply couldn't be bothered to fight the 40 - 42 year old Foreman? Yeah right.

Did you see how often he was hit in his comeback, Carlos Hernandez had him reeling from a punch. Some very average journeymen took him several rounds such as Crabtree (6), Trane (5), Young (7) and Williamson (5) and Qawi hit him almost at will. It was only his ability to soak up punches that was in Foreman's favour. Someone as quick and powerful as Tyson would hit Foreman too fast and too often. Foreman was strong but slow and was carefully manoeuvred into a title shot without fighting anyone too dangerous.

[Controversial]

He certainly did have the power to put Tyson away in his 40's. The Foreman from 89 - 91 hits Tyson plenty hard and often enough to make him quit fighting like he did in the Douglas fight. If anything Tyson couldn't knock the bigger Foreman over, and that would make the rot set in.

You really think he was perfectly happy to fight the 38 year old, out of the ring almost 2 years Holmes, but he simply couldn't be bothered to fight the 40 - 42 year old Foreman? Yeah right.

Did you see how often he was hit in his comeback, Carlos Hernandez had him reeling from a punch. Some very average journeymen took him several rounds such as Crabtree (6), Trane (5), Young (7) and Williamson (5) and Qawi hit him almost at will. It was only his ability to soak up punches that was in Foreman's favour. Someone as quick and powerful as Tyson would hit Foreman too fast and too often. Foreman was strong but slow and was carefully manoeuvred into a title shot without fighting anyone too dangerous.

Tyson made a reputation beating junkies, alcoholics, weirdo's and an old Holmes. If Foreman was such a pushover Tyson would gone for him as quickly as he went for the little old ladies on the streets of New York he used to mug.

THAT is the nature of the bully.

they were better than anyone Foreman beat in his comeback by a country mile

[keithmoonhangover]

keithmoonhangover"][No way Tyson ducked Foreman. The proof is King offering George a contract.

I'm not a Tyson fan. I don't think King is an honest guy.

I'm genuinely pleased to hear it, but I am at a loss as to how you can equate King NOT being an honest guy with the bold and underlined part above?

I would say King might just as well offer someone toilet tissue, as a contract. If he decided not to pay they would both be worth the same, sweet F.A.[/quote]

King offered Foreman a contract to Foreman because he wanted the Tyson-Foreman fight. Simple really.

[Ambling Alp II]

Tyson made a reputation beating junkies, alcoholics, weirdo's and an old Holmes. If Foreman was such a pushover Tyson would gone for him as quickly as he went for the little old ladies on the streets of New York he used to mug.

THAT is the nature of the bully.

they were better than anyone Foreman beat in his comeback by a country mile

What the hell are you talking about? They fought and beat some common opponents. The only difference was in the defeats to one of them. George fought a 25 - 0 Holyfield in 91 and lost on points. Tyson fought a 32 - 3 - 0 Holy in 96 and got splattered.

What in the world are you talking about?
They fought two other common opponents. Foreman won a very close decision over Lou Savarese and and a close decison over Alex Stewart. Tyson stopped both Stewart and Savarese in the first round.

Foreman's competition during his comeback was a running joke. He fought a lot of tomato cans.
Meanwhile, Tyson was beating people like Tony Tubbs, Tony Tucker, Frank Bruno, etc. Not legends, but much better than the people that Foreman was beating.
There was a huge difference in the overall quality of competition that Foreman fought during his comeback and the competition that Tyson fought. A country mile is right on.

25-year old Foreman would probably beat Tyson. Middle-age Foreman would probably beat a middle-age Tyson. However, a middle-age Foreman would have virtually no chance against Tyson in his 20s.

[Ambling Alp II]

What the hell are you talking about? They fought and beat some common opponents. The only difference was in the defeats to one of them. George fought a 25 - 0 Holyfield in 91 and lost on points. Tyson fought a 32 - 3 - 0 Holy in 96 and got splattered.

What in the world are you talking about?
They fought two other common opponents. Foreman won a very close decision over Lou Savarese and and a close decison over Alex Stewart. Tyson stopped both Stewart and Savarese in the first round.

Foreman's competition during his comeback was a running joke. He fought a lot of tomato cans.
Meanwhile, Tyson was beating people like Tony Tubbs, Tony Tucker, Frank Bruno, etc. Not legends, but much better than the people that Foreman was beating.
There was a huge difference in the overall quality of competition that Foreman fought during his comeback and the competition that Tyson fought. A country mile is right on.

25-year old Foreman would probably beat Tyson. Middle-age Foreman would probably beat a middle-age Tyson. However, a middle-age Foreman would have virtually no chance against Tyson in his 20s.

Ffs man get in the REAL world.

Victories are merely that. Only moronic fanboys get excited by the manner of those victories. DEFEATS, and the manner in which they are inflicted are what count. A 42 year old Foreman lost on points to an unbeaten 28 year old Holyfield. 5 and a half years later the 30 year old Tyson gets beaten the crap out of then KTFO by a 34 year old Holy who has lost 3 times, TWICE beaten by a guy as big as Foreman.

If those facts, and stats are inconvenient to you, tough. Not my problem. Ironically enough Foreman has one thing in common with Vitali Klitchko. NEITHER has ever lost to a stumpy little guy with short arms.

Victories don't count? I'm sorry, what planet do you live on?
Do you seriously think that Tyson's fights with Danny Williams and McBride mean much at all?
Tyson twice beat Frank Bruno, who was about the same height and weight as the ancient Foreman only in much better shape.
Yes Foreman lost on points. Wasn't exactly a close decision. Yes Tyson was stopped by Holyfield. He didn't exactly get the crap get kicked out of him.

How about the manner of Foreman's defeat to Tommy Morrison. Morrison had a glass jaw and not much defense. Yet the ancient Foreman couldn't outpoint him.
He couldn't knockout or outpoint Shannon Briggs; hardly a slick fighter.
Couldn't outpoint Alex Schulz, except by three blind judges.

there is a little more to boxing than looking at height, reach and weight. Tyosn beat plenty of guys who were tall, weighed a lot, and had a long reach. Oh but wait, victories don't count, do they?

btw the way, I am no fanboy of Mike Tyson. Could not stand him. Have said so many times. Just being realistic. He was a great fighter, close to being one of the top 10 heavyweights of all time. The middle-aged Foreman was nowhere near that.