Uh Glazkov WTF

dominik
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by dominik »

The Great John L wrote:
Tony1244 wrote:What era do you think was so much better? Some say the 1970s were a golden era. But there were only 4 great HWs from the 1970s: Ali, Foreman, Frazier, and Norton. Holmes was coming up. But Lyle, Shavers, Bobick, Young, Bugner, Bodell, either didn't make it at all, or weren't very good for very long.
OK, Ali, Frazier, Foreman and Norton. Who exactly are the 4 great HWs now? And where is the next Holmes coming from? I hate to say it, but Lyle, Shavers, Young, Bugner, Bonavena and Quarry would be rated 2-7 if they were fighting now, and on a good day some would have a chance of knocking off the the current version of Wlad. Even a fringe guy like Middleton was better than many of the current top 10.
well you can't take the 1970s as a whole decade and compare with 2014.

if you take the 2000s as a decade it doesn't look as bad either

1. lennox (was a champion till 2003)
2. vitali
3. wladimir
4. haye (became HW champ in 2009)

likewise in the 1970s norton, ali, foreman and frazier did not peak at the same time. norton began to be a force in the mid 1970s when ali and frazier were already starting to decline. still the 70s were a very good decade, better than now certainly but we should not act like ali and frazier were a force during all of the 1970s.
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by Bard of Boxrec »

Tony1244 wrote:There is only one great HW now.
Really? Who dat den?
The Great John L wrote:and on a good day all would knock off the the current version of Wlad.
Fixed that for you there!
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by Tony1244 »

Riddick Blowe wrote:
Tony1244 wrote:There is only one great HW now.
Really? Who dat den?
The Great John L wrote:and on a good day all would knock off the the current version of Wlad.
Fixed that for you there!


Who dat den? Dat den b Wlad. But if Lyle, Shavers, or even Quarry managed to land solid on Wlad, Wlad would be in a heap of trouble.
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by Tony1244 »

Lyle, Shavers, Young, Bugner, Bonavena and Quarry would be rated 2-7 if they were fighting now, and on a good day some would have a chance of knocking off the the current version of Wlad. Quote: The Great John L



Jimmy Young, Bugner? I couldn't see them knocking out Wlad, but the rest of them I could see.

But don't you believe Wlad's defense has improved to the point where he wouldn't be getting hit solid?
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by Bard of Boxrec »

Tony1244 wrote: But don't you believe Wlad's defense has improved to the point where he wouldn't be getting hit solid?
No.

Sanders and that version of Brewster would have beaten the 'New Wlad' too.
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by Woldemar »

Glazkov - very good fight against TOP Adamek and very bad fight against jorneyman Rossy :-(
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by Coachmanager »

Riddick Blowe wrote:
Tony1244 wrote: But don't you believe Wlad's defense has improved to the point where he wouldn't be getting hit solid?
No.

Sanders and that version of Brewster would have beaten the 'New Wlad' too.
Brewster didn't have any tool to beat the same Wlad he beat the first time. He beat Wlad because Wlad gassed out, the only thing Brewster did in that fight was survive until Wlad was tired as hell. It is stupid that people use this fight or Purrity fight to say that Wladimir has a chin problem, when these fight showed is that Wlad has a poor stamina.

About Sanders fight, Sanders was a hard puncher, with him any result is possible if he can land but of ten matches, actual Wlad would win at least nine.
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by Bard of Boxrec »

Coachmanager wrote:
About Sanders fight, Sanders was a hard puncher, with him any result is possible if he can land but of ten matches, actual Wlad would win at least nine.
Wlad got beat up. Comprehensively. Nine? Lol. The new Wlad might last till the eighth round.
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by dominik »

Riddick Blowe wrote:
Tony1244 wrote: But don't you believe Wlad's defense has improved to the point where he wouldn't be getting hit solid?
No.

Sanders and that version of Brewster would have beaten the 'New Wlad' too.
sanders would be dangerous for any wlad (or any fighter with a questionable chin) but I don't think brewster would have beaten prime wlad.
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by Woldemar »

Sanders don't beat this version Wlad ;-)

Many Clinches and wresting would help Wlad to beat CS ;-)

In 2003 Wlad underrated him and get TKO.

He don't respect him - this words sayed his brother Vitali
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by tiny_acres »

dominik wrote:
The Great John L wrote:
Tony1244 wrote:What era do you think was so much better? Some say the 1970s were a golden era. But there were only 4 great HWs from the 1970s: Ali, Foreman, Frazier, and Norton. Holmes was coming up. But Lyle, Shavers, Bobick, Young, Bugner, Bodell, either didn't make it at all, or weren't very good for very long.
OK, Ali, Frazier, Foreman and Norton. Who exactly are the 4 great HWs now? And where is the next Holmes coming from? I hate to say it, but Lyle, Shavers, Young, Bugner, Bonavena and Quarry would be rated 2-7 if they were fighting now, and on a good day some would have a chance of knocking off the the current version of Wlad. Even a fringe guy like Middleton was better than many of the current top 10.
well you can't take the 1970s as a whole decade and compare with 2014.

if you take the 2000s as a decade it doesn't look as bad either

1. lennox (was a champion till 2003)
2. vitali
3. wladimir
4. haye (became HW champ in 2009)

likewise in the 1970s norton, ali, foreman and frazier did not peak at the same time. norton began to be a force in the mid 1970s when ali and frazier were already starting to decline. still the 70s were a very good decade, better than now certainly but we should not act like ali and frazier were a force during all of the 1970s.
I do like the way you put this.It is true that none of them were 100% peak at same time.
I still like the 70's better but your opinion on this makes sense and brings the talent level closer. :TU:
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by Bard of Boxrec »

Woldemar wrote:Sanders don't beat this version Wlad ;-)

Many Clinches and wresting would help Wlad to beat CS ;-)

In 2003 Wlad underrated him and get TKO.

He don't respect him - this words sayed his brother Vitali
Underrated him? No, that's just how he fought.

Wlad's nearest and dearest need to face some hard truths and stop making excuses.

For all Corrie's flaws, he had speed and power and closed the distance well. Look at the trouble he got Vitali in, in that first round. Had him literally running away like an amateur. Corrie would ALWAYS have landed something on Wlad, no matter how defensively advanced people think Wlad became.

Sanders was the better fighter. He may not have had the better career - but he was better and he proved it.
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by Woldemar »

Yes,especially a fight against Nate Tubbs ;-)

Or Nate also better fighter than Wlad ;-) ?

Wlad no respect him and get TKO i repeat ;-)

He beat more dangerous Mercer who hit harder and have better chin than Sanders ;-)

Maybe Purity also better fighter than Wlad ;-) ?

If Wlad was American,you called him one of the greatest heavyweights in history ;-)
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by Bard of Boxrec »

Woldemar wrote:Yes,especially a fight against Nate Tubbs ;-)

Or Nate also better fighter than Wlad ;-) ?

Wlad no respect him and get TKO i repeat ;-)

He beat more dangerous Mercer who hit harder and have better chin than Sanders ;-)

Maybe Purity also better fighter than Wlad ;-) ?

If Wlad was American,you called him one of the greatest heavyweights in history ;-)
Those winks are quite disconcerting.

You can name the guys who beat Sanders all you want, or the shot guys Wlad beat. Doesn't change the fact that the styles matchup is horrible for Wlad. Any version of him. And why would I like Wlad if he was American? Very odd.
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by crusader »

Sanders proved he's better than Wlad because he beat him :?? That's weak even by your anti-Wlad standards.

I guess Purrity > Wlad then.
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by Bard of Boxrec »

crusader wrote:Sanders proved he's better than Wlad because he beat him :?? That's weak even by your anti-Wlad standards.

I guess Purrity > Wlad then.
Nope, Sanders proved he's better than Wlad because he crushed him and style-wise there's little to suggest it would have been different in a rematch around that time or many years later. A rematch Wlad had zero interest in pursuing, for good reason.
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by The Great John L »

dominik wrote:
The Great John L wrote:
Tony1244 wrote:What era do you think was so much better? Some say the 1970s were a golden era. But there were only 4 great HWs from the 1970s: Ali, Foreman, Frazier, and Norton. Holmes was coming up. But Lyle, Shavers, Bobick, Young, Bugner, Bodell, either didn't make it at all, or weren't very good for very long.
OK, Ali, Frazier, Foreman and Norton. Who exactly are the 4 great HWs now? And where is the next Holmes coming from? I hate to say it, but Lyle, Shavers, Young, Bugner, Bonavena and Quarry would be rated 2-7 if they were fighting now, and on a good day some would have a chance of knocking off the the current version of Wlad. Even a fringe guy like Middleton was better than many of the current top 10.
well you can't take the 1970s as a whole decade and compare with 2014.

if you take the 2000s as a decade it doesn't look as bad either

1. lennox (was a champion till 2003)
2. vitali
3. wladimir
4. haye (became HW champ in 2009)

likewise in the 1970s norton, ali, foreman and frazier did not peak at the same time. norton began to be a force in the mid 1970s when ali and frazier were already starting to decline. still the 70s were a very good decade, better than now certainly but we should not act like ali and frazier were a force during all of the 1970s.
Well if you take the entire decade, then you've got Holmes in the 70's, as well as a LOT more world class HWs that would rank only behind either a Lewis or a Klitschko if fighting in your chosen decade of 2000-2009. The problem now is that there isn't anything beyond the three guys in the past 15 years who could be considered great. The fact that Haye is your 4th guy is pretty good evidence. I guess Valuev, Byrd, Rahman and Ruiz should get mention as possible alternatives to Haye as most would consider that each of them probably had more actual accomplishments at HW than Haye. Haye was a very good fighter and did have a few decent wins at HW, but his HW resume is quite thin, brining in to question how good he actually was.

I have no argument that Lewis and the Klitschko's are great fighters, but there is no depth after them. And that's much truer today than 00-09 when more top 10 HWs seemed willing to fight each other.
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by crusader »

Riddick Blowe wrote:
crusader wrote:Sanders proved he's better than Wlad because he beat him :?? That's weak even by your anti-Wlad standards.

I guess Purrity > Wlad then.
Nope, Sanders proved he's better than Wlad because he crushed him and style-wise there's little to suggest it would have been different in a rematch around that time or many years later. A rematch Wlad had zero interest in pursuing, for good reason.
Catching someone in the first minute or so with a shot they never recover from and stopping them shortly after hardly proves that the winning fighter was superior on anything more than that night, just as Nate Tubbs and McCall haven't proved they are better than Sanders and Lewis respectively because they also scored heavy second round knockout wins over them.

Sanders has abilities that would make him dangerous to any version of Wlad, but I think he's inferior to the current version. In early 2003 Wlad was much less mobile and even lumbered around at times. Today is footwork is significantly better, and he's shown the foot speed and timing to effectively avoid the attacks of fairly quick opponents such as Haye, whom I believe is faster,more skilled, and about as hard punching as Sanders was. Against the current version of Wlad, I believe that Sanders' would be picked off with jabs and right hands from the outside and find himself lunging and missing with the types of shots he landed in 2003. He couldn't be totally written, as he possessed quick-handed power and Wlad's durability isn't a strength, but I think more often than not he would lose if they fought several times and do worse against common opponents.
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by VG_Addict »

I think Jennings would beat Glazkov.
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by diddy »

VG_Addict wrote:I think Jennings would beat Glazkov.
You "think"?

It's a certainty.
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by Matt in a hat »

I think Haye is being a bit overrated.
Guys in the 90's like Jeremy Williams, Kirk Johnson, Mo Harris, and Derrick Jefferson might have beaten him, and none of them won a major belt.
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by Bard of Boxrec »

crusader wrote:
Riddick Blowe wrote:
crusader wrote:Sanders proved he's better than Wlad because he beat him :?? That's weak even by your anti-Wlad standards.

I guess Purrity > Wlad then.
Nope, Sanders proved he's better than Wlad because he crushed him and style-wise there's little to suggest it would have been different in a rematch around that time or many years later. A rematch Wlad had zero interest in pursuing, for good reason.
Catching someone in the first minute or so with a shot they never recover from and stopping them shortly after hardly proves that the winning fighter was superior on anything more than that night, just as Nate Tubbs and McCall haven't proved they are better than Sanders and Lewis respectively because they also scored heavy second round knockout wins over them.

Sanders has abilities that would make him dangerous to any version of Wlad, but I think he's inferior to the current version. In early 2003 Wlad was much less mobile and even lumbered around at times. Today is footwork is significantly better, and he's shown the foot speed and timing to effectively avoid the attacks of fairly quick opponents such as Haye, whom I believe is faster,more skilled, and about as hard punching as Sanders was. Against the current version of Wlad, I believe that Sanders' would be picked off with jabs and right hands from the outside and find himself lunging and missing with the types of shots he landed in 2003. He couldn't be totally written, as he possessed quick-handed power and Wlad's durability isn't a strength, but I think more often than not he would lose if they fought several times and do worse against common opponents.
But Lewis avenged his defeat to McCall. Nate Tubbs was a weird one, Corrie wasn't getting his shots off and got poleaxed by a seemingly innocuous right hand.

You could say that Wlad would do a Nate Tubbs on Sanders, and it's feasible. But in the 2000s Corrie just seemed a bit more ring wise than the version that lost to Tubbs. He gave Rahman problems. Sanders clearly didn't have a great chin, but while he went down twice vs Rock he was well in the fight and absorbed a lot of other shots in a contest he was capable of winning.

The Haye comparison is way off IMO. Corrie was clearly a bigger hitter, more of a natural heavyweight and had a totally different style to Haye that enabled him to land more effective punches against a guy like Wlad. Compare the right hand Haye lands on Wlad in the 12th and then look at the first shot that led to Wlad's demise vs Sanders. Different league of power. Plus, while more skilled than Sanders, Haye's single-shot ambush style plus large size deficit meant he could be dealt with by Wlad.

The main reason I would pick 2003 Corrie over current Wlad is because every time 'Modern Wlad' is faced with some kind of threat his punch output drops. Watch him vs Haye, a guy way smaller and a guy not even putting him under the pressure he hates so much. He is reduced to a few jabs a round and the occasional right hand. I can remember maybe two clean right hands Wlad lands in the fight, which is as many as Haye managed (in the 3rd and the 12th). Watch Wlad in 2005, the supposedly new and improved Wlad, get bounced off the canvas and given hell vs Sam Peter, someone Sanders would surely have stopped. Against the 2003 Corrie, Wlad's output would drop in the same capacity which would allow Sanders to tee off and not have to worry about the sort of continuous fire that Sanders was bothered by. Corrie had the speed to close the distance and the power to put Wlad in his shell and eventually stop him.
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by crusader »

Of course Lewis avenged the defeat, showing that losing heavily in two rounds to McCall the first time didn't mean that he couldn't turn the tables and show that he was the better fighter. Sanders didn't avenge his loss to Tubbs though, so going by certain logic I guess the latter proved he was a better fighter than Sanders, meaning that if we accept your claim that Sanders is superior to Wlad, we'd have Nate Tubbs > Sanders > Wlad.

The most important part of the comparison to Haye is the speed factor. Wlad had a fairly easy time avoiding Haye's punches, and he was even faster and more explosive than Sanders. Sanders may hit harder, though I think it's close, but I think even with his quick hands he'd struggle significanlty to find the target against the recent version of Wlad who is particularly cautious and has mastered a well-timed quick step back and out of range.

Wlad's output may drop more against more threatening power, but he punches enough to beat them handily. You continually mention his low output, but I'd say he keeps his output at a level that allows him to minimize risks while maintaining control. Against Haye he was able to banks rounds on the jab and a few right hands alone, so perhaps that is a big reason why he wasn't throwing much. If he found that a few jabs and an occasional right hand wasn't enough to control Sanders, I think it's reasonable to believe that he would adjust his output accordingly. Additionally, Corrie wasn't the most durable fighter so I don't think you should assume that he'd keep charging forward and attacking so aggressively once Wlad started hitting him with right hands, even if they were few and far between. In the 2003 fight he jumped on Wlad from the start and hurt him before the latter got going.
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by Bard of Boxrec »

crusader wrote:
The most important part of the comparison to Haye is the speed factor. Wlad had a fairly easy time avoiding Haye's punches, and he was even faster and more explosive than Sanders. Sanders may hit harder, though I think it's close, but I think even with his quick hands he'd struggle significanlty to find the target against the recent version of Wlad who is particularly cautious and has mastered a well-timed quick step back and out of range.
The speed factor is irrelevant. Do you not think Wlad had an easy time avoiding Haye's shots because David threw single, wild shots from long range? Haye was fast but he had to cover such a long distance by nature of his ambush one-punch style that his speed was more or less negated. Wlad only had to worry about a few single, looping shots per round which he could shuffle out of the way of then tie Haye up. A dream situation for him.

Corrie's style however meant he could work his way into range then throw fast, hurtful punches in bunches, something Haye was totally unable to do as he had no inside skills/volume punching game whatsoever. This type of pressure is another type of problem for Wlad entirely.
If he found that a few jabs and an occasional right hand wasn't enough to control Sanders, I think it's reasonable to believe that he would adjust his output accordingly.
I don't agree, but this was destined to be an 'agree to disagree' debate. I just imagine Corrie landing something then Wlad panicking and starting pawing, caught in no-man's land between wanting to throw but not wanted to get tagged again.
Additionally, Corrie wasn't the most durable fighter so I don't think you should assume that he'd keep charging forward and attacking so aggressively once Wlad started hitting him with right hands, even if they were few and far between. In the 2003 fight he jumped on Wlad from the start and hurt him before the latter got going.
It's definitely possible that Corrie gets tagged, but he was a brave guy and could come back. Corrie being more aggressive and effective with his punches makes it more likely for me that Wlad gets tagged and can't recover than the other way round.
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Re: Uh Glazkov WTF

Post by crusader »

The speed factor is irrelevant. Do you not think Wlad had an easy time avoiding Haye's shots because David threw single, wild shots from long range? Haye was fast but he had to cover such a long distance by nature of his ambush one-punch style that his speed was more or less negated. Wlad only had to worry about a few single, looping shots per round which he could shuffle out of the way of then tie Haye up. A dream situation for him.

Corrie's style however meant he could work his way into range then throw fast, hurtful punches in bunches, something Haye was totally unable to do as he had no inside skills/volume punching game whatsoever. This type of pressure is another type of problem for Wlad entirely.
Speed is relevant given that Sanders relied on his quick hands to deliver many of his knockouts; what made him dangerous was not so much that he could bang as it was that he could bang quickly. I think this was a significant factor in his 2003 win, as Wlad was slow to react to these quick shots and was therefore not difficult to hit.

Haye looked wild and out of rang as he threw, but that's what happens when an opponent skillfully times punches and moves back quickly enough to avoid them as Wlad did. Haye largely throw single shots, but he did put his punches together at times and I didn't think Wlad was bothered.

You always question assertions that Wlad has improved, but I think he's demonstrably better on his feet than he was in the early and mid-2000s, showing the timing and speed to move out of range and avoid attacks more effectively than he has at any other point in his career. This reflects his general shift from an offensive juggernaut--being fairly aggressive, putting together 3-4-5 punch combinations, and regularly throwing hooks and uppercuts--to a significantly more conservative, but in my view better fighter overall and one more suited to beat Sanders. I think the current version of Wlad would largely make Corrie to fall short, rendering the latter more open and perhaps more reluctant to do something that isn't working, in this case aggressively coming forward. That is one reason fighters tend to be uncharacteristically passive against fighters like Wlad and Hopkins.
I don't agree, but this was destined to be an 'agree to disagree' debate. I just imagine Corrie landing something then Wlad panicking and starting pawing, caught in no-man's land between wanting to throw but not wanted to get tagged again.
Wlad got hit with a solid right hand by Haye in the 12th and a good right hand by Wach in the 6th, and neither time did he paw, panic, or reacting as he did earlier in his career when something similar occurred; in the first case he even became more aggressive. Admittedly he wasn't seriously hurt either time, but I question that Sanders would be able to do that to the current version of him, and it's not like Wlad hasn't shown the ability to win despite being dropped.
It's definitely possible that Corrie gets tagged, but he was a brave guy and could come back. Corrie being more aggressive and effective with his punches makes it more likely for me that Wlad gets tagged and can't recover than the other way round.
Wlad is also a brave guy, has shown the ability come back from knockdowns, and in two of his losses he was exhausted prior to going down because of his high output, something that likely wouldn't be a problem for the better-paced version of the last few years. I think it would be far more likely that he'd beat Sanders in some way, whether uneventful decision or an emphatic stoppage. He punches just as hard, he's better technically, he's significantly bigger, and his feet are better. He's mastered a style that would allow him to, more often than not, dictate the fight from the outside with jabs and right hands as Corrie would fall short and struggle to land. Wlad's style would allow him to be effective even if Sanders' power made him reluctant to attack, while Sander's success would be impaired to a much greater degree if Wlad's power phased him, which I think it would.
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