Fighters who've done little, but gotten far

[ReggieDiggs]

One of the interesting things about boxing I noticed from the beginning is how guys are moved & how that can help or hurt their careers & how those choices can get undeserving guys shots @ titles & prevent talented guys from ever winning a title. There is an art of moving a guy along to best maximize his progress imho, but there are also managers who try to just move a guy from bum to bum til they can parlay him into a big fight to cashout & there is also outright corruption involved in guys being moved up despite doing much if anything.

Who are some guys who've gotten to heights they may not have deserved based on their W's?

The guy who always comes to mind for me is Vaughn Bean. Vaughn actually had a respectable amateur career going 87-6 & winning four Chicago Golden Gloves titles. He would go on to win 45 of his 51 pro fights & fight for the heavyweight title two times (vs Evander Holyfield & Michael Moorer). He did this despite beating virtually anyone of note ("Mo" Harris would become notable later on) & never a top ten contender. Of his 45 wins only 13 opponents had a winning record, 7 of which were just 2 wins or less above a .500 record, all listed below.

1993 - KO2 Warren Williams, 7-4 (lost 3 of his last 4 fights)
1994 - KO3 Maurice Harris, 5-4-2
1994 - KO3 James Drubin, 3-2-1
1996 - KO1 Michael Benning, 5-3-1 (0-3-1 in last 4 fights & hadn't fought in 15yrs)
1996 - KO6 Ron McCarthy, 7-6-1 (lost 3 of his last 5 fights)

in 1997 with a record of 27-0, 5-0 vs guys with winning records, Vaughn got a title shot vs Michael Moorer (L12)

1998 - KO2 Isaac Brown, 11-8 (lost 7 of his last 9 fights)

in 1998 with a record of 31-1, 6-1 vs guys with winning records, Vaughn got a 2nd title shot vs Evander Holyfield (L12)

2000 - W10 Terry Porter, 13-5-2
2000 - W8 Robert Smith, 8-7-2 (lost last 2 fights)
2000 - KO2 Onebo Maxime, 14-9 (lost last 6 fights)
2001 - W10 Abdul Muhayim, 20-18-1 (1-15-1 in last 17 fights)
2001 - KO2 Don Normand, 25-10 (lost 4 of his last 6 fights)
2001 - KO2 Larry Carlisle, 10-9-2 (lost 6 of his last 7 fights)
2001 - KO1 Kenny Craven, 18-8

Vaughn fought into 2005 going 3-4 after his last W over a guy with a winning record losing to future champion Vitali Klitschko, future title challenger Tony Thompson, Alexander Dimitrenko & Yanqui Diaz. He was 31 when he retired.

[pugilisticprofessor]

Chris Algeri

[ReggieDiggs]

Chris Algeri

He beat Ruslan. Ruslan was a title holder & probably top 5 by most.

[Boxing Prospect]

Algieri beat Emmanuel Taylor who was relatively highly regarded. He has also beaten Mike Arnaoutis and Bayan Jargal. In fact to date Algieri has beaten 9 successive opponents with winning records.

[giacomino]

Gavin Rees. No fighter I can think of beat consistently crappier opposition heading into a title fight. (Maybe Bean?) He had done absolutely nothing to earn a British title fight, let alone an alphabet world title fight. And then, of course, he wins, so whatdoIknow?

[crusader]

There are many guys like Mehdi Bouadla who get bouts with high-profile opponents and multiple title shots without notable wins. The majority of Bouadla's victories are over opponents without winning records, and his most notable victim was probably the shot version of Morrade Hakkar. Often the same promoter will reuse these types for different fighters, being Kessler and Abraham in Bouadla's case.

Ricky Burns had quite a weak resume going into his fight with Roman Martinez, losing his challenges for the EBU and British title and not winning above British level. Obviously he went on to do well--so he's not perfectly comparable to guys like Bean who never did anything--showing that one's record need not indicate their quality.

[sucracristo]

look at jonanthan reid's record before his title shot against joppy.
why would a guy with that many wins still be fighting novices with
even records and veterans with 2-3x as many losses as wins?
i know that was a last minute replacement defense for joppy,
but people complain about wilder feasting on tomato cans to
earn his #1 rating but there have been lots of guys who have
gotten title shots off much worse. look at what happened to reid
when he consistently faced good fighters. this is why i think jones
could get a shot at kalenga's interim title off the opponents he is
beating and this is probably why he is doing it. if lebedev got injured
or something happened so he couldn't fight, the wba might even
upgrade joned to regular champion after and let him defend it against
a tomato can. back in the late 80's and 90's the wbo was almost always
given to guys that weren't even real top 10's and defended against guys who
were not even real top 20.

i'm not saying sean ogrady was bad, because both his wbc and wba fights
were competitive against world class guys, but actually look up his record.
it virtually all tomato cans. like the whole thing. he was cut by a butt in the
watt fight so it shouldn't have been a last round tko, and he soundly beat kenty.
look at what a good career after retiring he had calling fights on tv. that
guy probably did the least to earn the fame he got.

in women's boxing, almost all the title challengers have records with no
wins over opponents with winning records. often the challenges have no
wins over any opponents who have ever won a fight.

[crusader]

Rubin Williams is another.

Collected his wins on the clubfighter circuit, got knocked out in one when he stepped up against Epi Mendoza, then got a title shot against Jeff Lacy. His opposition improved significantly after that bout and he lost almost all of his following fights.

[big train express]

Cosme Rivera

[ReggieDiggs]

Rubin Williams is another.

Collected his wins on the clubfighter circuit, got knocked out in one when he stepped up against Epi Mendoza, then got a title shot against Jeff Lacy. His opposition improved significantly after that bout and he lost almost all of his following fights.

Rubin is a real good one. His record is brutal lol. 29-24-1 pro record. Beat 13 guys with winning records (his best win pre-Lacy was probably Tony Menefee who was 76-16-1, but 2-6, with two NCs in his last 10 fights), but no one threatening & almost all of them similar to Vaughn in that even though they had winning records their recent activity was largely a losing proposition. The most interesting thing with his record might be how he went 29-2-1, 13-2-1 vs guys with winning records, from 2001-2007 & preceded to end his career going 0-22, 0-22 vs guys with winning records, from 2008-2014. As a Michigan guy I remember following Rubin early on, he won a Detroit GG title iirc & was a member of Team Cannon (with Rydell Booker, who was probably the most talented guy in the group who should be getting out of prison for drugs in the next couple years if he can get paroled).

[Datsue]

Cosme Rivera

The same Cosme Rivera who consistently was matched against more experienced guys with winning records from the outset, who in his tenth fight fought a guy 20-3, was matched ridiculously hard in a dozen fights after that, who beat streaking Canonero Quiroz, who fought a dozen guys--winning & losing mind--who were proven at least at US/Central American national level who ended up in world title contention or were already in title contention, & earned his shot by beating an unbeaten domestically-decorated fighter on the other side of the world & then a once-exposed well-hyped prospect who'd only lost once?

That Cosme Rivera?

'Cos if you do mean that Cosme Rivera & you think that he somehow qualifies in regards to what the OP was talking about, if you were to tell me that the sky was blue I'd open a window & take a look.

[ReggieDiggs]

look at jonanthan reid's record before his title shot against joppy.
why would a guy with that many wins still be fighting novices with
even records and veterans with 2-3x as many losses as wins?
i know that was a last minute replacement defense for joppy,
but people complain about wilder feasting on tomato cans to
earn his #1 rating but there have been lots of guys who have
gotten title shots off much worse. look at what happened to reid
when he consistently faced good fighters. this is why i think jones
could get a shot at kalenga's interim title off the opponents he is
beating and this is probably why he is doing it. if lebedev got injured
or something happened so he couldn't fight, the wba might even
upgrade joned to regular champion after and let him defend it against
a tomato can. back in the late 80's and 90's the wbo was almost always
given to guys that weren't even real top 10's and defended against guys who
were not even real top 20.

i'm not saying sean ogrady was bad, because both his wbc and wba fights
were competitive against world class guys, but actually look up his record.
it virtually all tomato cans. like the whole thing. he was cut by a butt in the
watt fight so it shouldn't have been a last round tko, and he soundly beat kenty.
look at what a good career after retiring he had calling fights on tv. that
guy probably did the least to earn the fame he got.

in women's boxing, almost all the title challengers have records with no
wins over opponents with winning records. often the challenges have no
wins over any opponents who have ever won a fight.

Yea Jonathan Reid is another good one for sure. 35-15, but only beat 8 guys with winning records, of his 27-0 record pre-Joppy only 5 were vs guys with winning records. The best who was probably Karl Willis, 24-11-1, but who'd lost 6 of his last 8.

Sean had one of those super active, Buck Smith kinda activity with a dash of Saul Alvarez youth, careers (86 bouts in 8 years, retired @ 24) so I can't overly fault him for fighting so many bs guys @ such a young age & he actually has some quality W's in there too, but obviously not many. Minus those handful of key W's he had I could see him in this discussion though.

Women's boxing doesn't have depth & I barely view it as real boxing. There are a handful of women I'd say are on a true professional level in skill & they seldom meet other women on that level so I can't really count that.

[black panther]

Prior to beating Devon Alexander,current IBF welterweight champion Shawn Porter had done little to earn a shot at a world title, with his only wins of note being Julio Diaz (former lightweight champ yes, but no wins of note at welterweight and no relevant wins for 2 years), fringe contender Alfonso Gomez and Phil Le Greco who, despite being 25-0, had beaten no-one of note and was probably ranked around 100 by boxrec.


Interestingly, one of my favourite fighters and the fighter who inspired me to take up boxing, Shane Mosley, hadn't beaten ANYONE of note prior to his IBF title shot vs Philip Holiday. His best win was vs Joseph Murray, who had been stopped in three of his last four and was coming off a first round KO loss. Just before his title shot, he fought Michael Smith, who was an impressive 3-7!


Mosley obviously went on to become a great fighter and proved his worth vs Holiday. But it just goes to show the proliferation of alphabet titles really have ruined boxing as it doesn't take much but a nice looking record to get a title shot. If there was only one world title, you would never get a title shot so easily.

[Datsue]

Prior to beating Devon Alexander,current IBF welterweight champion Shawn Porter had done little to earn a shot at a world title, with his only wins of note being Julio Diaz (former lightweight champ yes, but no wins of note at welterweight and no relevant wins for 2 years), fringe contender Alfonso Gomez and Phil Le Greco who, despite being 25-0, had beaten no-one of note and was probably ranked around 100 by boxrec.


Interestingly, one of my favourite fighters and the fighter who inspired me to take up boxing, Shane Mosley, hadn't beaten ANYONE of note prior to his IBF title shot vs Philip Holiday. His best win was vs Joseph Murray, who had been stopped in three of his last four and was coming off a first round KO loss. Just before his title shot, he fought Michael Smith, who was an impressive 3-7!


Mosley obviously went on to become a great fighter and proved his worth vs Holiday. But it just goes to show the proliferation of alphabet titles really have ruined boxing as it doesn't take much but a nice looking record to get a title shot. If there was only one world title, you would never get a title shot so easily.

to everything apart from the very last clause, I think guys still got unwarranted shots due to outside influence even with just one title, but it was definitely harder.

[Counter-puncher]

Cosme Rivera

The same Cosme Rivera who consistently was matched against more experienced guys with winning records from the outset, who in his tenth fight fought a guy 20-3, was matched ridiculously hard in a dozen fights after that, who beat streaking Canonero Quiroz, who fought a dozen guys--winning & losing mind--who were proven at least at US/Central American national level who ended up in world title contention or were already in title contention, & earned his shot by beating an unbeaten domestically-decorated fighter on the other side of the world & then a once-exposed well-hyped prospect who'd only lost once?

That Cosme Rivera?

'Cos if you do mean that Cosme Rivera & you think that he somehow qualifies in regards to what the OP was talking about, if you were to tell me that the sky was blue I'd open a window & take a look.

[ReggieDiggs]

Cosme Rivera

The same Cosme Rivera who consistently was matched against more experienced guys with winning records from the outset, who in his tenth fight fought a guy 20-3, was matched ridiculously hard in a dozen fights after that, who beat streaking Canonero Quiroz, who fought a dozen guys--winning & losing mind--who were proven at least at US/Central American national level who ended up in world title contention or were already in title contention, & earned his shot by beating an unbeaten domestically-decorated fighter on the other side of the world & then a once-exposed well-hyped prospect who'd only lost once?

That Cosme Rivera?

'Cos if you do mean that Cosme Rivera & you think that he somehow qualifies in regards to what the OP was talking about, if you were to tell me that the sky was blue I'd open a window & take a look.

Lol, damn.

[vovazilvova]

Manuel Roman is one of them, he is getting a title shot in September against Cruz

[knurak]

Beibut Shumenov

- Best wins were Montell Griffin and Uzelkov
- Loses to Campillo; robs him (gets WBA belt) in rematch
- Defends against bums for almost four years, even becoming "Super" WBA champion with a win over Tamas Kovacs
- Lands unification fight with the legend Bernard Hopkins

One of the judges even scored the fight against BHop for him...

[Yes We Can]

Martin Murray enters the equation prior to his fight with Sturm.

Paul Mccloskey had a shitty record before fighting Khan, and has done absolutely nothing since (and during) that fight.

Junior Witters record was appalling prior to his fight with Judah, although Witter did make it to world class soon after

[reggaereggae]

Loads surely - this can go on forever

Dave Tiberi
Mathew Hatton
Lee Purdy
John Murray
Luis Santana
Jesse Ferguson
Mike Dokes

[reggaereggae]

Michael Bentt (though he won)
Steve Foster
Jorge Vaca (though he won£
Pete Rademacher (1st fight)
Vasyl Lomachenlo (at least he beat a contender and came close vs a champion; but still odd£

[pugilisticprofessor]

Algieri beat Emmanuel Taylor who was relatively highly regarded. He has also beaten Mike Arnaoutis and Bayan Jargal. In fact to date Algieri has beaten 9 successive opponents with winning records.

So you are saying that off of those performaces that he deserves a shot at Manny?

Aranoutus is shot as hell and Jargal never was, Algeri by beating Caveman Provo is a fighter that has done little and is about to get far until Manny KOs him.

[HeavyHitters]

Ummm..... Butterbean!!?? Der!!