Wilder v Gavern

Badhusker
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by Badhusker »

I'm not sure how much you learn from holding back against bums either. He really needs to be sharing the ring with someone who can go rounds without the need for Wilder to hold back.[/quote]

well it was a stay busy fight. he already is the mandatory and would be stupid to take a risk.

I have often criticized wilders team for his matchmaking and it might be his downfall if he faces a serious contender but at this point it is a smart decision.[/quote]
I'm talking about fighters who have a combination of durability, skill, survival skills that can take Wilder deep without necessarily presenting a major risk, like Fres Oquendo.

On the other hand, there's too many people acting like Wilder can't risk fighting a good opponent like Povetkin or Jennings when he's so close to getting Stiverne. There's not a damned difference between any of those fighters. It's not like he gets paid $8 million to fight Stiverne and $50,000 to fight Povetkin. It's not like Kell Brook, who would make $4 million for fighting Mayweather or $300k for fighting Thurman. If he fights Stiverne or fights another top 10 heavyweight, it's the same everything either way; the only difference is the worthless WBC belt that nobody respects. If anything, the WBC trinket costs him more money because he'd have to pay sanctioning fees. Fury and Chisora don't need no stinking belts; they're getting money without it. Nobody's bending over backwards to guarantee that they don't blow their shot at the WBA ordinary trinket. Wilder is the only guy making excuses that he's not allowed to fight anyone except Stiverne and bums.
Badhusker wrote:Exactly. Wilder came into the pros with very little amateur experience. Probably had 50 or 60 fights in the amateurs. Some of the dumb fucks on this site think he should be thrown in with top 20's right away. They are bringing Wilder up at the right pace despite the frustration of uneducated fans. Watch how everyone jumps on his bandwagon when he becomes champ. I would never argue that his competition has been great,. but good boxers can be ruined by that too. I think he is more than hype, and in a year or two many will agree.
^ Too dumb to realize that there are fighters outside the top 20 who are capable of lasting 5 rounds with Wilder.[/quote]

Lackeos,

I know you think you are a smart guy, but who in the top 20 would have been a suitable opponent for Wilder with the short notice? Guys like you would bitch no matter who it is. Can you name any heavy weight that Wilder had ducked or said no to? No, you can't, because there aren't any. There are some big names that have turned him down though.

Lets talk outside of the top 20. How many guys do you know of were asked to fight Wilder at short notice, that would have given him rounds.....that agreed to take the fight? For you to suggest Povotkin or Jenning shows you have no clue when it comes to common sense match-ups. Maybe they should have consulted you??? The guy is a few months away from a world title fight. This fact is enough to prove you are a freaking moron. If you don't get that I guess the rest of what you said makes perfect sense.

There are guys like you that want to see Wilder fall sooooo fornicating bad, it just consumes you. tough shit.

I think Wilder has great potential, and is still learning. He isn't all that just yet. Holy shit, like any up and comer give the kid a chance.
Tony1244
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by Tony1244 »

Have you listed the names and ages of all the all time greats Stiverne beat to get this "title?"
eastezrider
Middleweight
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by eastezrider »

fergusg wrote: Dan Rafael (ESPN.com's award-winning boxing writer)...
:lol: :lol: :lol: Was that the Dean Wormer Weekly "fat, drunk and stupid life" Award?
Badhusker
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by Badhusker »

No one that I know of on this board or anywhere else has said Wilder's opponents to date have been great. You can list all of his opponents - and guess what, everyone will still agree that it isn't a resume to brag about. Wilder has more rounds sparring with Haye and Wlad than he has rounds in all of his 32 fights. He is not like Lomanchenko or GGG with 700 amateur bouts between them.

With a limited amateur experience they have brought him along slow for a reason. I do know he tried to get fights with Fury, Thompson, and a few others but the timing and/or money was not right for them. We can't change the rankings or his resume, but I guess we can bitch about it.

We are a few short months away from finally finding out what Wilder has when he (hopefully) takes on Stiverne, who to me is basically a paper champion at this point anyway. I have said before even if he gets beat, we will know where he is at. Wanting him to take on other top ranked guys at this point is stupid. His team didn't even want him to fight Gavern. If he did though and stumbled, then I guess a lot of people can say they told you so, he is just a hype job. Hopefully Stiverne's uncle won't get sick before it happens.
punchoutsb
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by punchoutsb »

Badhusker wrote:Hopefully Stiverne's uncle won't get sick before it happens.
Or his wife doesn't have a miscarriage...

Hopefully Wilder doesn't choke a woman before hand again. That already saved him from a Chisora step up...
Badhusker
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by Badhusker »

punchoutsb wrote:
Badhusker wrote:Hopefully Stiverne's uncle won't get sick before it happens.
Or his wife doesn't have a miscarriage...

Hopefully Wilder doesn't choke a woman before hand again. That already saved him from a Chisora step up...
Touché!

:OhYes:
eastezrider
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by eastezrider »

fergusg wrote: Whatever your personal opinion of Dan Rafael may be - is his comment inaccurate? Has Deontay Wilder defeated anyone impressive throughout his entire professional career?
Was my description of Fat Dan inaccurate? Irregardless; to your question, "Yes", his comment was not only inaccurate, but completely disingenuous. #ICYMI Malik Scott, Nicolai Firtha, Audley Harrison, and Kelvin Price were all considered "decent" opponents at the time he fought them, only after they lost to Wilder did the nit-pickers come out "oh well... that guy actually sucked, and yada, yada, yada" but, I'm quite sure that your knowledge of boxing far out shines mine, so my profound apologies to you kind sir, I bow to your superior brain.
fergusg wrote: I’m willing to retract my criticism of Deontay Wilder if you can prove to me that the hype that is surrounding this American is justified based on the quality of opponents he has faced to-date?
You are genuinely a daft twat if'n you think I can prove the hype surrounding anyone is justified... Robbie Williams, Justin Bieber, Kim Kardashian, Madonna... jeez... nah... on second thot, go fück yourself and the donkey you and your 12 posts rode in here on, mate...
jujigatame
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by jujigatame »

Malik Scott, Nicolai Firtha, Audley Harrison, and Kelvin Price were all considered "decent" opponents at the time he fought them
Price was only a "decent" opponent because Wilder had fought nothing but the most abject scrubs before him. So it was a step up. But let's not pretend he was a serious challenge. He was a soft-punching 37 year old C-lister.

Audley was coming off the Prizefighter win so you could argue he was a step up too, but he is incredibly fragile and nobody at the time gave him a chance of going more than 2 or 3 rounds.

Firtha is a total scrub. Nobody thought he was a good opponent in the least.

Scott was the one guy people thought could give Wilder a stiff test, and he took one punch and gave up. That performance was embarrassing at best, fishy at worst.

I don't have anything against the guy but the way his career has been handled has been unbelievably cynical and encapsulates a lot of what is wrong with boxing.
Badhusker
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by Badhusker »

If my memory is correct, I heard from different people that Wilder needs to fight:

Kersten Manswell (who KO'd Stiverne),

Kelvin Price (who beat Tor Hamer),

Liakhovich (went 9 rounds with Jennings, Helinius, and 12 with Briggs, and who also beat Lamon Brewster),

Harrison (2000 Olympic Champion) ,

Firtha (who went the distance with Povotkin and had Fury out on his feet),

Scott (who only had one loss)......

they will give him rounds and a test. Since they didn't though, they were instantly bums. Still no great resume, but like Eastezrider said, those were considered tests before they fought. I would expect the goalpost to be moved once again if he beats Stiverne. He will instantly be past it and a bum if he loses to Wilder. In a way there is no pressure at all on Wilder, since he apparently is expected to get exposed as a hype job.
Tony1244
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by Tony1244 »

Is my post factually-incorrect? Are you suggesting that Bermaine Stiverne hasn’t defeated better opponents than Deontay Wilder? :confused:




Your post is factually correct. Stiverne beat Arreola twice and Ray Austin. Other than that I can't think of anyone else. Perhaps we can agree this is not a real title fight, so there should be no debate as to whether Wilder deserves a title shot because this isn't for a title.
drunkenpiper36
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by drunkenpiper36 »

Wilder needs to fight a guy like Steve Cunningham or Mansour. Not that those are the best opponents, but they are at least stepping stones.
stevekrazy
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by stevekrazy »

Kertson Manswell was stopped by stiverne in two rounds, what are you talking about?
HomicideHenry
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by HomicideHenry »

drunkenpiper36 wrote:Wilder needs to fight a guy like Steve Cunningham or Mansour. Not that those are the best opponents, but they are at least stepping stones.
Maybe he should fight the Tarver/Banks winner next...
Tony1244
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by Tony1244 »

Tony1244 wrote:Your post is factually correct. Stiverne beat Arreola twice and Ray Austin. Other than that I can't think of anyone else. Perhaps we can agree this is not a real title fight, so there should be no debate as to whether Wilder deserves a title shot because this isn't for a title.
I agree that Bermaine Stiverne cannot be regarded as a genuine world champion, so whoever holds the WBC belt should not be considered as the real champ until they fight Klitschko.

@eastezrider – an amusing post, but I will disregard your thoughts.[/quote]


Not sure who or what you're disregarding. No real boxing fan considers Stiverne-Wilder for the HW title. It's a good match-up though, and should be made. It will certainly answer a lot of questions regarding Wilder.
dominik
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by dominik »

Wilders record padding is nothing unique. many euro fighters do the same, dimitrenko and boystov had similar padded records with 20+ wins against mediocre opponents.
Badhusker
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by Badhusker »

stevekrazy wrote:Kertson Manswell was stopped by stiverne in two rounds, what are you talking about?
My mistake. Demetrius King is who I was thinking of, but Wilder didn't fight him.
Tony1244
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by Tony1244 »

fergusg wrote:@Tony1244 - We agree. I was merely disregarding statements made 'eastezrider' on an unrelated trolling matter.

Those unrelated trolling matter. :salut:

I don't worry about what the alphabets call a title shot. A match is a match, and this is a good matchup because it's Wilder's coming out party.
Lackeos
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by Lackeos »

HomicideHenry wrote:
drunkenpiper36 wrote:Wilder needs to fight a guy like Steve Cunningham or Mansour. Not that those are the best opponents, but they are at least stepping stones.
Maybe he should fight the Tarver/Banks winner next...
Tarver and Banks would've both made fantastic measuring sticks for Wilder. Although Tarver is nearly impossible to KO, so that would ruin Wilder's holy KO%, and Banks is no safer an opponent for Wilder than he was for Mitchell. But they would certainly be adequate opponents for now, to at least validate some of Wilder's perceived assets, and also give Wilder some badly needed experience in the deep end.
Evander
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by Evander »

It's been almost 6 years and we know Wilder can hit. isn't time to move on to stronger challengers ?
Don't know about you lot but the longer this goes on the more sceptical I'm getting of Deontay.
Badhusker
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by Badhusker »

Evander wrote:It's been almost 6 years and we know Wilder can hit. isn't time to move on to stronger challengers ?
Don't know about you lot but the longer this goes on the more sceptical I'm getting of Deontay.

In case you haven't heard, he is supposed to be fighting Stiverne next. I would consider that a strong challenge, wouldn't you?
Matt in a hat
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by Matt in a hat »

For all the hype Wilder has less potential than Henry Akinwande did, and he was a good fighter with some decent wins on his resume.
Both are similar in size, but Akinwande was a pure boxer who only took the KO when it presented itself. He was however not strong enough for the divisions elite as it turned out.
No one ever gave a care about Akinwande because he wasn't from the good ol' USA.
Besides the power difference what exactly does Wider do better than Akinwande anyway???
tiny_acres
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by tiny_acres »

fergusg wrote:
Matt in a hat wrote:For all the hype Wilder has less potential than Henry Akinwande did, and he was a good fighter with some decent wins on his resume.
Both are similar in size, but Akinwande was a pure boxer who only took the KO when it presented itself. He was however not strong enough for the divisions elite as it turned out.
No one ever gave a care about Akinwande because he wasn't from the good ol' USA.
Besides the power difference what exactly does Wider do better than Akinwande anyway???
I’m not being funny, but it’s pointless to compare the careers of Deontay Wilder and Henry Akindande, because Brit had already won and defended the WBO heavyweight title after 32 fights. :o

Akinwande had also managed to defeat talented fighters such as Jeremy Williams, Axel Schulz, Tony Tucker and Alexander Zolkin after only 32 fights… and then you try to compared this to Deontay’s achievements over the equivalent number of fights, there’s really no comparison! ;;-)

The only thing we know for certain is that Deontay Wilder has a proven ability to knockout cab drivers. :lol: :OhYes:
Axel Schultz was undefeated but had a more padded record than even Wilder at the time.
Tony Tucker was 52-3 at the tail end of his career and coming off a loss
Jeremy William not a bad win but already lost to an unproven Larry Donald and all other wins were against scrubs or former journeymen coming off of losses
Alexander Zolkin was Akinwande's biggest win upto that point.Still not that impressive

Looking back there were several people who talked about Akinwande's padded record coming into the Lennox Lewis
fight.
I do not think that Wilders record is much worse than Akinwande's.Not that I think either of theirs is good.
I think it is a fair comparison.
Azmir
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by Azmir »

Hello folks!

Man Wilder is too skinny for a HW. He should gain at least 20lbs to be a serious HW, as well he should fight someone real, not hobos, truckers, bouncers and "10 years ago past prime" fighters.
His defense is desperately bad.

Man HW boxing is so bad these days. You can barely find any HW who trains at daily basis and has not a beer belly. 95% HW are really poor athletes. Not to mention situations like Zhiley's debut.

I see a mediocre fighter in Wilder. The other "top 10" HW are also just mediocre fighters.

Joshua is the light at the end of a tunnel for this division. Even Cammarelle turning pro would be nothing these days as he's not what he's been 4-5 years ago.

On the other side, I see a lot of Sanders in Pulev, don't know why.
JMac
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by JMac »

tiny_acres wrote:
fergusg wrote:
Matt in a hat wrote:For all the hype Wilder has less potential than Henry Akinwande did, and he was a good fighter with some decent wins on his resume.
Both are similar in size, but Akinwande was a pure boxer who only took the KO when it presented itself. He was however not strong enough for the divisions elite as it turned out.
No one ever gave a care about Akinwande because he wasn't from the good ol' USA.
Besides the power difference what exactly does Wider do better than Akinwande anyway???
I’m not being funny, but it’s pointless to compare the careers of Deontay Wilder and Henry Akindande, because Brit had already won and defended the WBO heavyweight title after 32 fights. :o

Akinwande had also managed to defeat talented fighters such as Jeremy Williams, Axel Schulz, Tony Tucker and Alexander Zolkin after only 32 fights… and then you try to compared this to Deontay’s achievements over the equivalent number of fights, there’s really no comparison! ;;-)

The only thing we know for certain is that Deontay Wilder has a proven ability to knockout cab drivers. :lol: :OhYes:
Axel Schultz was undefeated but had a more padded record than even Wilder at the time.
Tony Tucker was 52-3 at the tail end of his career and coming off a loss
Jeremy William not a bad win but already lost to an unproven Larry Donald and all other wins were against scrubs or former journeymen coming off of losses
Alexander Zolkin was Akinwande's biggest win upto that point.Still not that impressive

Looking back there were several people who talked about Akinwande's padded record coming into the Lennox Lewis
fight.
I do not think that Wilders record is much worse than Akinwande's.Not that I think either of theirs is good.
I think it is a fair comparison.
Akinwande had a win over Gypsy John Fury, KO 3. John is Tyson's father. :OhYes:
Lackeos
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Re: Wilder v Gavern

Post by Lackeos »

Akinwande and Wilder's best wins (through 32 fights) together, sorted by boxrec rating. Also color-coded.

Rank Opponent Rating Fighter
1 Alexander Zolkin 430 Akinwande
2 Jeremy Williams 412 Akinwande
3 Jimmy Thunder 342 Akinwande
4 Johnny Nelson 257 Akinwande

5 Audley Harrison 256 Wilder
6 Axel Schulz 166 Akinwande
7 Malik Scott 159 Wilder
8 Tony Tucker 156 Akinwande
9 Lumbala Tshibamba 135 Akinwande
10 John Fury 112 Akinwande
11 Gerard Jones 107 Akinwande

12 Kelvin Price 101 Wilder
13 Kimmuel Odum 95 Akinwande
14 Mario Schiesser 91 Akinwande
15 J.B. Williamson 84 Akinwande
16 Biagio Chianese 80 Akinwande

17 Siarhei Liakhovich 77 Wilder
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