Wilder v Gavern

[tiny_acres]

Akinwande and Wilder's best wins (through 32 fights) together, sorted by boxrec rating. Also color-coded.

Rank Opponent Rating Fighter
1 Alexander Zolkin 430 Akinwande
2 Jeremy Williams 412 Akinwande
3 Jimmy Thunder 342 Akinwande
4 Johnny Nelson 257 Akinwande
5 Audley Harrison 256 Wilder
6 Axel Schulz 166 Akinwande
7 Malik Scott 159 Wilder
8 Tony Tucker 156 Akinwande
9 Lumbala Tshibamba 135 Akinwande
10 John Fury 112 Akinwande
11 Gerard Jones 107 Akinwande
12 Kelvin Price 101 Wilder
13 Kimmuel Odum 95 Akinwande
14 Mario Schiesser 91 Akinwande
15 J.B. Williamson 84 Akinwande
16 Biagio Chianese 80 Akinwande
17 Siarhei Liakhovich 77 Wilder

I always love how people complain non stop on how bad BOXREC'S ratings are.
But they sure love to use them for debates
Freakin classic

[tiny_acres]

Akinwande and Wilder's best wins (through 32 fights) together, sorted by boxrec rating. Also color-coded.

Rank Opponent Rating Fighter
1 Alexander Zolkin 430 Akinwande
2 Jeremy Williams 412 Akinwande
3 Jimmy Thunder 342 Akinwande
4 Johnny Nelson 257 Akinwande
5 Audley Harrison 256 Wilder
6 Axel Schulz 166 Akinwande
7 Malik Scott 159 Wilder
8 Tony Tucker 156 Akinwande
9 Lumbala Tshibamba 135 Akinwande
10 John Fury 112 Akinwande
11 Gerard Jones 107 Akinwande
12 Kelvin Price 101 Wilder
13 Kimmuel Odum 95 Akinwande
14 Mario Schiesser 91 Akinwande
15 J.B. Williamson 84 Akinwande
16 Biagio Chianese 80 Akinwande
17 Siarhei Liakhovich 77 Wilder

I always love how people complain non stop on how bad BOXREC'S ratings are.
But they sure love to use them for debates
Freakin classic

Lackeos would you mind doing that for Wladamirs first 32 fights just for comparison?

[crusader]

Wlad had 32 fights after 3 years. Why don't you compare him to Wilder after each of them had been pros for 6 years, like Wilder has been now? Or why not 3 years? Akinwande reached 32 fights after 7 years so comparing him to Wilder based on fights is more appropriate and I think the former clearly had the better opposition after the same number of fights, although it seems that Wilder is on the verge of his biggest fight so it's not a perfect comparison.

What you've done within a certain period of time is in my view more important than what you've done after a certain number of fights. Going just by fights often punishes guys for staying active. Also, while BoxRec's rankings aren't perfect and occasionally have glaring problems (often when fighters unfairly lose a decision, which the system doesn't account for), I think they're generally reasonable. I don't believe the shortcomings of the rankings are responsible for nearly all of Akinwande's opponents being ranked higher.

[Badhusker]

Why compare them at all? Who gives a rats ass, really?

[crusader]

Who gives a rats ass

Obviously the people who are comparing them and asking for them to be compared.

[Badhusker]

Who gives a rats ass

Obviously the people who are comparing them and asking for them to be compared.

I guess if you have the time on your hands to do that, fine. All it really does though, is show how much of a moot point Wilder's record is. No one has ever argued that he has a great resume. It doesn't really matter who you compare it to.

[Coachmanager]

Akinwande and Wilder's best wins (through 32 fights) together, sorted by boxrec rating. Also color-coded.

Rank Opponent Rating Fighter
1 Alexander Zolkin 430 Akinwande
2 Jeremy Williams 412 Akinwande
3 Jimmy Thunder 342 Akinwande
4 Johnny Nelson 257 Akinwande
5 Audley Harrison 256 Wilder
6 Axel Schulz 166 Akinwande
7 Malik Scott 159 Wilder
8 Tony Tucker 156 Akinwande
9 Lumbala Tshibamba 135 Akinwande
10 John Fury 112 Akinwande
11 Gerard Jones 107 Akinwande
12 Kelvin Price 101 Wilder
13 Kimmuel Odum 95 Akinwande
14 Mario Schiesser 91 Akinwande
15 J.B. Williamson 84 Akinwande
16 Biagio Chianese 80 Akinwande
17 Siarhei Liakhovich 77 Wilder

how can you look that? I mean boxrec points of a figther before any fight.

[Lackeos]

Akinwande and Wilder's best wins (through 32 fights) together, sorted by boxrec rating. Also color-coded.

Rank Opponent Rating Fighter
1 Alexander Zolkin 430 Akinwande
2 Jeremy Williams 412 Akinwande
3 Jimmy Thunder 342 Akinwande
4 Johnny Nelson 257 Akinwande
5 Audley Harrison 256 Wilder
6 Axel Schulz 166 Akinwande
7 Malik Scott 159 Wilder
8 Tony Tucker 156 Akinwande
9 Lumbala Tshibamba 135 Akinwande
10 John Fury 112 Akinwande
11 Gerard Jones 107 Akinwande
12 Kelvin Price 101 Wilder
13 Kimmuel Odum 95 Akinwande
14 Mario Schiesser 91 Akinwande
15 J.B. Williamson 84 Akinwande
16 Biagio Chianese 80 Akinwande
17 Siarhei Liakhovich 77 Wilder

how can you look that? I mean boxrec points of a figther before any fight.

On a fighter's record, between his next scheduled fight and his W-L record is a short panel of features. There's ratings off / on radio buttons that you can toggle.

[ReggieDiggs]

Short & sweet Boxrec resume review.

Deontay has been pro five years & nine months. This comparison is Wlad at that same point in his career.

Deontay (Nov 2008-Aug 2014)
Pro Record: 32-0 (32)
Vs 200pts-299pts Boxers: 1-0 (1)
Vs 100pts-199pts Boxers: 2-0 (2)
Vs 50pts-99pts Boxers: 5-0 (5)
Vs 49pts or less Boxers: 24-0 (24)

Wladimir (Nov 1996-Aug 2002)
Pro Record: 39-1 (35)
Vs 500pts-599pts Boxers: 1-0
Vs 300pts-399pts Boxers: 1-0 (1)
Vs 200pts-299pts Boxers: 4-1 (4)
Vs 100pts-199pts Boxers: 3-0 (3)
Vs 50pts-99pts Boxers: 6-0 (6)
Vs 49pts or less Boxers: 24-0 (21)

[crusader]

What's striking when you unpack the lowest level of opposition is how bad Wilder's opponents have generally been, at least relative to Wlad's.

Wilder with 32 fights
Opponents with 20 points or fewer: 23 (72% of his opponents)
Opponents with 10 points or fewer: 18 (56%)
Opponents with 1 or 0 points: 8 (25%)

Wlad with 40 fights after the same time pro

Opponents with 20 points or fewer: 15 (37%)
Opponents with 10 points or fewer: 9 (23%)
Opponents with 1 or 0 points: 0 (0%)

[dempseyfire]

I can't wait for Wilder to crash and burn . . there hasn't been a hype train this unwarranted since Courage Tsahbalaba, and poor Courage never got NEAR the press Wilder gets (and I think Tshabalaba looked better knocking out the bums he fought than Deontay does). He loads up his right hand like he's throwing a baseball. Just amateurish stuff all around. The first guy who can take him past the 6th will probably knock him out as he'll be so exhausted by then loading up on his wild swings, but better chances are the first top 10 guy he faces knocks him out early.

[ReggieDiggs]

I can't wait for Wilder to crash and burn . . there hasn't been a hype train this unwarranted since Courage Tsahbalaba

Seth was getting hyped pretty big & that was recently. Hell I think Seth probably has gotten more hype than Deontay & Seth looks less skilled than Deontay imho.

[Coachmanager]

Akinwande and Wilder's best wins (through 32 fights) together, sorted by boxrec rating. Also color-coded.

Rank Opponent Rating Fighter
1 Alexander Zolkin 430 Akinwande
2 Jeremy Williams 412 Akinwande
3 Jimmy Thunder 342 Akinwande
4 Johnny Nelson 257 Akinwande
5 Audley Harrison 256 Wilder
6 Axel Schulz 166 Akinwande
7 Malik Scott 159 Wilder
8 Tony Tucker 156 Akinwande
9 Lumbala Tshibamba 135 Akinwande
10 John Fury 112 Akinwande
11 Gerard Jones 107 Akinwande
12 Kelvin Price 101 Wilder
13 Kimmuel Odum 95 Akinwande
14 Mario Schiesser 91 Akinwande
15 J.B. Williamson 84 Akinwande
16 Biagio Chianese 80 Akinwande
17 Siarhei Liakhovich 77 Wilder

how can you look that? I mean boxrec points of a figther before any fight.

On a fighter's record, between his next scheduled fight and his W-L record is a short panel of features. There's ratings off / on radio buttons that you can toggle.

Thanks

[dominik]

What's striking when you unpack the lowest level of opposition is how bad Wilder's opponents have generally been, at least relative to Wlad's.

Wilder with 32 fights
Opponents with 20 points or fewer: 23 (72% of his opponents)
Opponents with 10 points or fewer: 18 (56%)
Opponents with 1 or 0 points: 8 (25%)

Wlad with 40 fights after the same time pro

Opponents with 20 points or fewer: 15 (37%)
Opponents with 10 points or fewer: 9 (23%)
Opponents with 1 or 0 points: 0 (0%)

To be fair wilder had less than 3 years of Amateur experience when he turned pro (according to Wikipedia he had his very first Amateur fight in october 2005 when he probably only had half a year of gym Training) while Wladimir started to box when he was like 10 years old or so.

of course Wladimir was much younger too when he turned pro, wlad won his first world championchip belt at Age 24 when wilder was just turning pro at that Age. you cannot really compare them and it would be unfair to do.

[Badhusker]

I honestly don’t know why people are so protective of their seemingly-favourite fighters, because the facts are irrefutable and are in plain sight!

Deontay Wilder has yet to face a genuine top 30 world-rated fighter, but his handlers have somehow manoeuvred his career in such an effective manner that he has unfairly gained a shot at the world title, without actually earning it!

I honestly don't understand why people like you are trying to make an argument that is not really debatable. Maybe its the only way you can win an argument? Its easy to debate Stiverne as not deserving of his title, and if you go through the weights there are a dozen others at least too.

No one debates Wilder has not fought top competition. No one debates he probably has not earned a title shot. You can pick and choose who's record to compare him to and make his record look even worse if you want to. Its easy to find others that got title shots that were not deserving too.

Canelo Alvarez is an example. His first 30 or 32 fights were in Mexico, and doubt if you could name one of them without looking them up. He comes to the US and gets a title shot for Jr Middle vs a welterweight, that isn't even ranked. He goes on holding the title the next 3 years only fighting one true Jr Middle....to further hype him up. Do you think artificial hype is something new?

At least Demseyfire has the honesty to say he hopes the hype job Wilder crashes and burns. I just look at him as a young fighter with exciting skills on his way to the top with a lot of potential, much like I see Thurman, Andrade, and Crawford. They may or may not get there, and even if they a major belt, it doesn't mean you are the best at the weight. All four of them are willing to fight the best at their weights, which you won't see with 99% of the champs today.

[punchoutsb]

At least Demseyfire has the honesty to say he hopes the hype job Wilder crashes and burns. I just look at him as a young fighter with exciting skills on his way to the top with a lot of potential, much like I see Thurman, Andrade, and Crawford. They may or may not get there, and even if they a major belt, it doesn't mean you are the best at the weight. All four of them are willing to fight the best at their weights, which you won't see with 99% of the champs today.

What? You're not counting Wilder there, are you?

[Badhusker]

At least Demseyfire has the honesty to say he hopes the hype job Wilder crashes and burns. I just look at him as a young fighter with exciting skills on his way to the top with a lot of potential, much like I see Thurman, Andrade, and Crawford. They may or may not get there, and even if they a major belt, it doesn't mean you are the best at the weight. All four of them are willing to fight the best at their weights, which you won't see with 99% of the champs today.

What? You're not counting Wilder there, are you?

Yes I am. Can you name any fighter that he turned down and refused to fight? If you can, I will stand corrected.

[punchoutsb]

At least Demseyfire has the honesty to say he hopes the hype job Wilder crashes and burns. I just look at him as a young fighter with exciting skills on his way to the top with a lot of potential, much like I see Thurman, Andrade, and Crawford. They may or may not get there, and even if they a major belt, it doesn't mean you are the best at the weight. All four of them are willing to fight the best at their weights, which you won't see with 99% of the champs today.

What? You're not counting Wilder there, are you?

Yes I am. Can you name any fighter that he turned down and refused to fight? If you can, I will stand corrected.

You are claiming he's willing to fight the best at his weight class...can you name any fighter considered to be among the best that he has actively pursued?

[crusader]

To be fair wilder had less than 3 years of Amateur experience when he turned pro (according to Wikipedia he had his very first Amateur fight in october 2005 when he probably only had half a year of gym Training) while Wladimir started to box when he was like 10 years old or so.

of course Wladimir was much younger too when he turned pro, wlad won his first world championchip belt at Age 24 when wilder was just turning pro at that Age. you cannot really compare them and it would be unfair to do.

Of course they can be compared and I already did. I was simply pointing out the disparity in quality between the two and not the reasons for it.

On that point, I can understand a slow approach even though Wilder fought numerous world class amateurs like Russo, Chakiev, and Acosta, but a sizable majority of his opponents, have been very poor and it hasn't been long since he was fighting people like Damon McCreary and Matthew Greer. You mention his lack of experience, but I'm not sure what skills he was gaining from quickly blowing away extremely over-matched opponents who didn't punch back.

[Badhusker]

What? You're not counting Wilder there, are you?[/quote]

Yes I am. Can you name any fighter that he turned down and refused to fight? If you can, I will stand corrected.[/quote]

You are claiming he's willing to fight the best at his weight class...can you name any fighter considered to be among the best that he has actively pursued?[/quote]

He is actively pursuing Stiverne currently, and has pursued Tony Thompson, who turned down the offer GB gave him, Tyson Fury when he needed a replacement for Haye. Fury was all talk until Wilder agreed, and now says if Wilder gets a title he will fight him. He will actively pursue Wlad or whoever they put in front of him if he beats Stiverne. Most likely he will fight Jennings, who Wilder said he is more than willing to fight. He actively pursued Chisora for a fight but it was cancelled after Wilder's legal trouble, and with Chisora unwilling to come to the US to fight. I admit Golden Boy has not actively pursued the best fights for Wilder, but its not because he is afraid or unwilling to fight anyone. The big difference is no one else has actively pursued Wilder because he is too high of a risk at this point. Hopefully that will change.

[Badhusker]

I honestly don’t know why people are so protective of their seemingly-favourite fighters, because the facts are irrefutable and are in plain sight!

Deontay Wilder has yet to face a genuine top 30 world-rated fighter, but his handlers have somehow manoeuvred his career in such an effective manner that he has unfairly gained a shot at the world title, without actually earning it!

I honestly don't understand why people like you are trying to make an argument that is not really debatable. Maybe its the only way you can win an argument? Its easy to debate Stiverne as not deserving of his title, and if you go through the weights there are a dozen others at least too.

No one debates Wilder has not fought top competition. No one debates he probably has not earned a title shot. You can pick and choose who's record to compare him to and make his record look even worse if you want to. Its easy to find others that got title shots that were not deserving too.

I simply expressed an opinion that I personally find almost impossible to refute, but people seem to be very defensive about the American, because they persistently try to justify the reasoning for his career path, with what I believe to be extremely weak arguments. I wasn’t trying to engage in a debate with them, merely articulating my own thoughts on the matter.

I’m unwilling to continue expressing further comments about other fighters, because I feel it would only serve to introduce a smokescreen that could possibly conceal or divert attention away from the seemingly-appalling calibre of opponents Deontay Wilder has faced throughout his career!

It is what it is; I’ve expressed an opinion that is merely stating the obvious!

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

[punchoutsb]

I admit Golden Boy has not actively pursued the best fights for Wilder, but its not because he is afraid or unwilling to fight anyone.

I never said he was afraid...it's seemingly because his management doesn't believe in him.

But the fact remains that we just don't know. It's stupid to assume that Wilder is a bum, and it's also stupid to assume that he's "willing to fight the best" when he's never even approached B level fights yet.

[dempseyfire]

At least Demseyfire has the honesty to say he hopes the hype job Wilder crashes and burns. I just look at him as a young fighter with exciting skills on his way to the top with a lot of potential, much like I see Thurman, Andrade, and Crawford. They may or may not get there, and even if they a major belt, it doesn't mean you are the best at the weight. All four of them are willing to fight the best at their weights, which you won't see with 99% of the champs today.

What? You're not counting Wilder there, are you?

Yes I am. Can you name any fighter that he turned down and refused to fight? If you can, I will stand corrected.

Come on . . .it's clear he and his team have been going after soft touches. You honestly think he tried to fight the likes of Pulev, Thompson, Takam, Ustinov . . and they refused? Hell, someone earlier mentioned Fres Oquendo, who's in his early 40s and has shown repeatedly he'll fighting anyone anytime . . no calls from the Wilder camp. They are clearly taking the path of least resistance, especially after an old Harold Sconiers also sent him to dreamland.

[Badhusker]

I admit Golden Boy has not actively pursued the best fights for Wilder, but its not because he is afraid or unwilling to fight anyone.

I never said he was afraid...it's seemingly because his management doesn't believe in him.

But the fact remains that we just don't know. It's stupid to assume that Wilder is a bum, and it's also stupid to assume that he's "willing to fight the best" when he's never even approached B level fights yet.

I agree that his management apparently thinks differently than Wilder does. I think we can all agree that he has not been tested yet, and look forward to the day he is. Wlad has been KO'd 3 times, twice inside of 5 rounds, and the first time in his 25th fight vs a guy with something like 14 losses. It didn't mean his career was over, and it won't be the end of the world for Wilder either if he gets KO'd. I do think it will take a much better guy to do it though than the guy that KO'd Wlad the first time. Guys like Haye, Wlad, Banks, and the late E. Steward all agreed that he would be the next big thing in heavyweight boxing. Time will tell.

[Badhusker]

Yes I am. Can you name any fighter that he turned down and refused to fight? If you can, I will stand corrected.[/quote]

Come on . . .it's clear he and his team have been going after soft touches. You honestly think he tried to fight the likes of Pulev, Thompson, Takam, Ustinov . . and they refused? Hell, someone earlier mentioned Fres Oquendo, who's in his early 40s and has shown repeatedly he'll fighting anyone anytime . . no calls from the Wilder camp. They are clearly taking the path of least resistance, especially after an old Harold Sconiers also sent him to dreamland.[/quote]

Just curious...What will your response be if Wilder KO's Stiverne? Will it be that Stiverne was nothing like a dogcrap opponent, and you will hold off on any praise until Wilder beats someone with a pulse?