Jerry Quarry vs Bob Pastor

[drunkenpiper36]

Two guys of somewhat comparable size and who managed to beat a handful of the division's best contenders without ever winning a world title. Quarry, a great counter puncher vs Pastor a slick boxer. Who takes this one?

[cfang]

Pastor was a good boxer and has some good wins but I really think Quarry was a cut above. He fought much much tougher opponents. A lot of Pastor's foes were light heavys, Quarry was in against Ali, Frazier and the like. He'd beat Pastor in my view probably by late stoppage.

[dempseyfire]

Pastor was a good boxer and has some good wins but I really think Quarry was a cut above. He fought much much tougher opponents. A lot of Pastor's foes were light heavys, Quarry was in against Ali, Frazier and the like. He'd beat Pastor in my view probably by late stoppage.

Pastor fought Louis twice, Conn, Mauriello, Lesnevich, Bivins plus solid, dangerous heavyweights like Turkey Thompson, Lem Franklin, Lou Nova, and Al Ettore. Quarry's top opponents were great (Ali, Frazier, Norton) but he lost all of those fights; the rest of his resume is definitely not a class above Bob's.

All that said, this is a bad style match-up for Quarry. Pastor had a great chin, superior stamina, and was the better boxer. Quarry won't knock him out or outbox him. Pastor by decision.

[tagjohnson]

Can't see Bob keeping Jerry off. Quarry by TKO or flat out KO. As always with Jerry chance of him losing by cuts.

[drunkenpiper36]

I'm undecided myself. Both were very good fighters. But Bob didn't really fall into the category of larger, slower moving hitters that Quarry was typically able to take advantage of, ie. Lyle, Mathis, Foster, etc.. I'm wondering if Pastor's movement and boxing ability may cause him problems.

[Ambling Alp II]

It's not just that Quarry did go 0-5 vs Ali, Frazier and Norton. He never got past the 7th round. Pastor was more competitive against Louis.
Quarry also lost to Machen, Ellis, and Chuvalo. However, Pastor also lost to Nathan Mann and Gus Dorazio, which is much worse.

However, Quarry had a better "victim's list". Quarry's wins over Lyle, Shavers and a slightly past his best Patterson trump Pastor's best wins. Quarry also had decent wins against Spencer, Mac Foster, Buster Mathis, and Larry Middleton.

Pastor was a good boxer but not a great one. Quarry had decent boxing skills himself and could be a good pressure fighter at times as well. Quarry would probably win a tough decision.

[BoxBuzz]

Alp....not sure how you can list the Chuvalo debacle....that told us nothing.....other than what is in the record book.

Sometimes a win is a win......and that's all that it is. I'm just sayin'. Norton was a bit of a star crossed affair as well....one man clearly on his way out...the other just as certainly headed up.


But the rest of your argument stands.

[Ambling Alp II]

The Chuvalo fight shows us that Chuvalo knocked Quarry down, and Quarry did not get up before 10. That his own fault. (Some credit to Chuvalo of course.)
I don't buy the fable of Quarry suddenly becoming washed up right before the Norton fight. He lost to Norton primarily because Norton was better.

We can always make excuses (Pastor got fouled a lot vs Conn for example) but at the end of the day (if both fighters are close to their prime and the officiating is fair), most of the time they are just that, excuses. Overall, Quarry did have a better career than Pastor and probably would have been him in a competitive fight.

[BoxBuzz]

If you're not buying that "fable" then I will lower the price for you. It's a good value. I suggest you invest early and often.

[dempseyfire]

It's not just that Quarry did go 0-5 vs Ali, Frazier and Norton. He never got past the 7th round. Pastor was more competitive against Louis.
Quarry also lost to Machen, Ellis, and Chuvalo. However, Pastor also lost to Nathan Mann and Gus Dorazio, which is much worse.

However, Quarry had a better "victim's list". Quarry's wins over Lyle, Shavers and a slightly past his best Patterson trump Pastor's best wins. Quarry also had decent wins against Spencer, Mac Foster, Buster Mathis, and Larry Middleton.

Pastor was a good boxer but not a great one. Quarry had decent boxing skills himself and could be a good pressure fighter at times as well. Quarry would probably win a tough decision.

Alp, at least admit you have a bias towards Quarry's wins because you are more familiar with that era. Mann and Dorazio were excellent heavyweights and would've given Quarry hell too.

Buster Mathis is the only top-shelf "slick" heavyweight Quarry ever defeated. He could beat outbox the sluggers like Lyle, Shavers, Foster but back problems or not vs the movers like Ali or even Ellis Quarry was much more vulnerable . .even Patterson really bothered Quarry with his movement.

Pastor was an energizer bunny . . as shown in the Louis rematch he could stay on his toes going in and out. giving angles round after round. Jerry doesn't have the stamina or slickness to keep up; he'll start getting desperate and frustrated as the fight wears on and Pastor will take advantage.

[Cap]

It's too close to call. No real advantage either way. I like Pastor's boxing skills, but Quarry's got the artillery. Pastor if it goes long, Quarry if inside 6 rounds.

[Ambling Alp II]

It's not just that Quarry did go 0-5 vs Ali, Frazier and Norton. He never got past the 7th round. Pastor was more competitive against Louis.
Quarry also lost to Machen, Ellis, and Chuvalo. However, Pastor also lost to Nathan Mann and Gus Dorazio, which is much worse.

However, Quarry had a better "victim's list". Quarry's wins over Lyle, Shavers and a slightly past his best Patterson trump Pastor's best wins. Quarry also had decent wins against Spencer, Mac Foster, Buster Mathis, and Larry Middleton.

Pastor was a good boxer but not a great one. Quarry had decent boxing skills himself and could be a good pressure fighter at times as well. Quarry would probably win a tough decision.

Alp, at least admit you have a bias towards Quarry's wins because you are more familiar with that era. Mann and Dorazio were excellent heavyweights and would've given Quarry hell too.

Buster Mathis is the only top-shelf "slick" heavyweight Quarry ever defeated. He could beat outbox the sluggers like Lyle, Shavers, Foster but back problems or not vs the movers like Ali or even Ellis Quarry was much more vulnerable . .even Patterson really bothered Quarry with his movement.

Pastor was an energizer bunny . . as shown in the Louis rematch he could stay on his toes going in and out. giving angles round after round. Jerry doesn't have the stamina or slickness to keep up; he'll start getting desperate and frustrated as the fight wears on and Pastor will take advantage.

I believe that the heavyweight division was at it's best in the 1970s, particularly the early 1970s. (Some of the rest of the divisions were good, some weren't.)

I like to read and watch about fighters from every era. I think Pastor was good, but he wasn't great. I strongly disagree with Mann and Dorazio being "excellent heavyweights" Mann was OK , but nothing special. I don't think Dorazio was any good at all. Constantly lost when he fought someone decent; except for beating Pastor. That is really an embarrassing loss for Pastor.

Head to head, I think Quarry had just enough to get it done.

[pbchron]

GUS DORAZIO was the top spoiler in the heavyweight division during the late 30's and early 40's. A vicious body puncher, he scored upsets over Pastor, Harry Bobo (2x) Buddy Walker, Joe Baksi, Al Hart (2),Lem Franklin, Wild Bill Boyd and nearly ran Hatchetman Sheppard out of the ring, losing a highly disputed decision. Harry Keck, dean of the Pittsburgh boxing writers, reported "I almost fell off my chair when the decision was announced, and when announcer Joe Tucker told us in the working press that it was unanimous, I just about passed out. I thought Dorazio was the boss from the start and never lost control of the fight..."it was a fight in which the Hatchet was almost always on the retreat, hitting going away, and his opponent was chasing him and forcing the fight , barging in with resounding hooks to the body and head and when he did get hit in return, moving right back in to take the play away from the Hatchet."
From Jimmy Miller (Pittsburgh Sun-Telegraph) "The aggressor throughout, Dorazio, on my score sheet, won 7 of the 10 rounds, with Hatchet winning only two and one being even... Dorazio piled up a big lead with forcing tactics and incessant punching with both fists in close, his work more than offsetting Sheppard's long jabs and choppy rights."
Dorazio's loss to Baksi at Wash D.C was so bad that an investigation of District Boxing was brought in the aftermath of that incident.
Dorazio was only flattened twice, by Louis and Turkey Thompson. The stoppages at the end of his career were due to his scar tissue no longer able to clot and started to hemorrhage when he cut.
Its a shame that such tough contenders as Dorazio, etc. after taking on all comers (black + white) in their long and noble campaigns are belittled without their careers being researched properly.

[evrenb]

GUS DORAZIO was the top spoiler in the heavyweight division during the late 30's and early 40's. A vicious body puncher, he scored upsets over Pastor, Harry Bobo (2x) Buddy Walker, Joe Baksi, Al Hart (2),Lem Franklin, Wild Bill Boyd and nearly ran Hatchetman Sheppard out of the ring, losing a highly disputed decision. Harry Keck, dean of the Pittsburgh boxing writers, reported "I almost fell off my chair when the decision was announced, and when announcer Joe Tucker told us in the working press that it was unanimous, I just about passed out. I thought Dorazio was the boss from the start and never lost control of the fight..."it was a fight in which the Hatchet was almost always on the retreat, hitting going away, and his opponent was chasing him and forcing the fight , barging in with resounding hooks to the body and head and when he did get hit in return, moving right back in to take the play away from the Hatchet."
From Jimmy Miller (Pittsburgh Sun-Telegraph) "The aggressor throughout, Dorazio, on my score sheet, won 7 of the 10 rounds, with Hatchet winning only two and one being even... Dorazio piled up a big lead with forcing tactics and incessant punching with both fists in close, his work more than offsetting Sheppard's long jabs and choppy rights."
Dorazio's loss to Baksi at Wash D.C was so bad that an investigation of District Boxing was brought in the aftermath of that incident.
Dorazio was only flattened twice, by Louis and Turkey Thompson. The stoppages at the end of his career were due to his scar tissue no longer able to clot and started to hemorrhage when he cut.
Its a shame that such tough contenders as Dorazio, etc. after taking on all comers (black + white) in their long and noble campaigns are belittled without their careers being researched properly.

Your posts are always insightful, interesting, factual and show a tremendous knowledge. You are in fact my all time favourite poster!!

[Ambling Alp II]

GUS DORAZIO was the top spoiler in the heavyweight division during the late 30's and early 40's. A vicious body puncher, he scored upsets over Pastor, Harry Bobo (2x) Buddy Walker, Joe Baksi, Al Hart (2),Lem Franklin, Wild Bill Boyd and nearly ran Hatchetman Sheppard out of the ring, losing a highly disputed decision. Harry Keck, dean of the Pittsburgh boxing writers, reported "I almost fell off my chair when the decision was announced, and when announcer Joe Tucker told us in the working press that it was unanimous, I just about passed out. I thought Dorazio was the boss from the start and never lost control of the fight..."it was a fight in which the Hatchet was almost always on the retreat, hitting going away, and his opponent was chasing him and forcing the fight , barging in with resounding hooks to the body and head and when he did get hit in return, moving right back in to take the play away from the Hatchet."
From Jimmy Miller (Pittsburgh Sun-Telegraph) "The aggressor throughout, Dorazio, on my score sheet, won 7 of the 10 rounds, with Hatchet winning only two and one being even... Dorazio piled up a big lead with forcing tactics and incessant punching with both fists in close, his work more than offsetting Sheppard's long jabs and choppy rights."
Dorazio's loss to Baksi at Wash D.C was so bad that an investigation of District Boxing was brought in the aftermath of that incident.
Dorazio was only flattened twice, by Louis and Turkey Thompson. The stoppages at the end of his career were due to his scar tissue no longer able to clot and started to hemorrhage when he cut.
Its a shame that such tough contenders as Dorazio, etc. after taking on all comers (black + white) in their long and noble campaigns are belittled without their careers being researched properly.

Look what happened when he fought the best of the era. Joe Louis knocked him out in 2 rounds. Conn stopped him. Godoy beat him. Turkey Thompson beat him. Melio Bettina (who really was at this best at light heavy) beat him. By far his best win is Pastor.

There were many fighters below this level who were roughly even. Dorazio fought several of them and you mentioned some of them. Sometimes he won, sometimes he lost. He also lost to Bobo, Walker and Baski. He also lost to Wille Reddish, Brooks, Roscole Toles, and even Herbert Marshall.

[pbchron]

evrenb, I appreciate the kind words.
ALP- you said Dorazio was'nt any good at all. But yet he lost close matches to Godoy, Thompson, Brooks (who he beat in a return), Walker won a home town decision in their 1st bout after getting a slow count when Dorazio dropped him for "nine" in the second round at Columbus. Bettina was far better at heavyweight when his chunky frame didn't have to make weight. He did become number one contender at heavy with wins over Bivins, Sheppard, Bobo (2), Burman, Brooks, Blunt, Buddy Walker and a very close one over Dorazio. Gus was decisively beaten by Toles when the ref stopped it but his loss to Reddish was highly tainted when ref McGuigan stepped in saying Gus "wasn't trying." Conn stopped Gus on a bad cut and I have some reports that Conn didn't have an easy time in winning.
Hey, read about some of these guys, Dorazio was one tough son of a gun who deserves to not be maligned. You are entitled to your opinion about Quarry, who was a terrific fighter, who might have beaten Pastor. But when disrespecting fighters remember there is more to it than reading their records. Check out the post fight reports (newsclips) and you might have a different perspective of many of the road warriors that made boxing great. Just like your entitled to your opinion, I just posted my opinion.

[Ambling Alp II]

I don't think he was as good as you do. A difference of opinion. Fair enough.

[Cap]

Gus Dorazio was one of those essential guys that made boxing such a great sport back in the day. Tough as nails, lots of pure guts and enough talent and ring smarts to give every other guy a hard battle. I raise my glass of root beer to him!

[BoxBuzz]

Make that a sarsaparilla and I'll join ya!

[yancey]

Make that a sarsaparilla and I'll join ya!

Make mine a creme soda and I'm in.